Indian colonel confronts ISI's honey trap

Should the Colonel be punished or forgiven?


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Ray

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Do we follow the old adage, guilty until proven otherwise. If that is the case then we can treat him as an idiot for the time being.
It is so said.

In the Army, unfortunately, action is taken after a prelim opinion is made. I am sure there is prima facie evidence or else they would not have taken action or reacted for that matter.




Yes. If he gave away information, then that would be a different case.
Must have.

Or else, why take cognisance?



We can only speculate regarding this and still be woefully wrong.
We can speculate, but those who are handling the case cannot speculate and will not talk. The media sniffs a story and then goes to town on half baked speculations.



Thank you for the info. I did not know this. Prostitution is illegal and so was Bill Clinton's affair. In this case, both John and Bill knew what they were doing is illegal. Unless this woman was a prostitute we cannot club him in the same group as it may have been a honest mistake.
Well, she was not a cheap prostitute. She was a high class and highly paid call girl, who was invited to great social dos. In 1961, Profumo met Christine Keeler, a London call girl,[2] at a house party at Cliveden, the Buckinghamshire mansion owned by Lord Astor.

So, I have a question. Of course if he gave away info during all this, he will be sentenced. If he smelt a rat beforehand and went running to the higher ups with the story, no damage was done, then would he be punished?
The army is weird by civil standards.

They take things seriously, especially on morals and security. Look at the number of Generals in the dock. Compare that with the politicians and bureaucrats! They get away with murder, while the Army man is booked before the country can react with horror!

To wit, imagine sections in the army act, where one can be booked and cooked for an act unbecoming of an officer or an act or omission prejudicial to good order and military discipline!

Can you define them or does it give great leeway to use it any way it is so desired?

What about Army Rule where your services can be terminated without reason except for a terse statement that the President is pleased to terminate your services!

But then that is why things move and not drag in the army.

And there must have been injustices also done in the bargain. Who knows?
 
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ace009

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I can understand the higher standards in the Army - especially for national security AND the fact that they are trained with weapons - so they need to be better behaved.
But the military officers behavior, whether it crosses an ethical line is separate issue to whether it crosses the army's code of conduct, not to mention if the code of conduct is relevant/ up to date. Anyway, long story short, the guy did something stupid, followed by something brave. He should not be unduly punished.
 

Ray

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I can understand the higher standards in the Army - especially for national security AND the fact that they are trained with weapons - so they need to be better behaved.
But the military officers behavior, whether it crosses an ethical line is separate issue to whether it crosses the army's code of conduct, not to mention if the code of conduct is relevant/ up to date. Anyway, long story short, the guy did something stupid, followed by something brave. He should not be unduly punished.
I am sure that will be kept in mind.
 

W.G.Ewald

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What about Army Rule where your services can be terminated without reason except for a terse statement that the President is pleased to terminate your services!
Happens in US with only high ranking generals, (e.g. GEN McChrystal) and always there is another in line eagerly waiting to take his place. We don't have a shortage of generals.

Reminds me of something, so I'll go off-topic. Following WTC attack in 2001 we were in a meeting with our Sergeant-Major, talking about security and vulnerabilities. Sergeant-Major was saying our 2-star CG got to his 4th floor office early in the morning while it was still dark outside and he could be a target of a sniper when he turned on the lights. I pointed out that al-Quaida had publicly threatened to kill American children and the schools on base were a more likely target. ( I do not recall saying that we could always get a new general, but that was my thought.) At some point the schools were assigned a small security detail. The CG kept his drapes closed early in the morning.
 

Bhadra

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Just leave it to Army !!

There is going to be injustice in the name of discipline and mortal fear of politicians / MoD Babus!!
 

W.G.Ewald

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It was sex that persuaded the Israelite Samson to reveal to Palestinian Delilah that his long hair was the secret of his supernatural strength.


Delilah was approached by the lords of the Philistines, to discover the secret of Samson's strength, "and we will give thee, every one of us, eleven hundred pieces of silver." Three times she asked Samson for the secret of his strength, and all three times he gave her a false answer. The first time, he told her, "If they bind me with seven green withes that were never dried, then shall I be weak, and be as another man." Then he told her, "If they bind me fast with new ropes that never were occupied, then shall I be weak, and be as another man." The third time, he told her, "If thou weavest the seven locks of my head with the web...."[3] On the fourth occasion, he gave her the true reason: that he did not cut his hair in fulfillment of a vow to God;[4] and Delilah, when Samson was asleep on her knees, called up her man to shave off the seven locks from his head, then betrayed him to his enemies: "The Philistines took him, and put out his eyes, and brought him down to Gaza, and bound him with fetters of brass; and he did grind in the prison house."
Delilah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

p2prada

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Must have.

Or else, why take cognisance?
Maybe as per policy. If you are approached by foreign agents and asked to spy, come home and report immediately. It's not like you are scrutinized only AFTER you give away information.

We can speculate, but those who are handling the case cannot speculate and will not talk. The media sniffs a story and then goes to town on half baked speculations.
Our media blows. But without more information we civilians cannot speculate.

Well, she was not a cheap prostitute. She was a high class and highly paid call girl, who was invited to great social dos. In 1961, Profumo met Christine Keeler, a London call girl,[2] at a house party at Cliveden, the Buckinghamshire mansion owned by Lord Astor.
Must have been bad luck I suppose. Did either the General or the Admiral knew about the other visiting Keller? I don't know much about the case, so only asking. Maybe Keller was professional and did not reveal who she was with to either of the men. BTW, did something happen to the Soviet Admiral?

The army is weird by civil standards.

They take things seriously, especially on morals and security. Look at the number of Generals in the dock. Compare that with the politicians and bureaucrats! They get away with murder, while the Army man is booked before the country can react with horror!
Will agree. Court martials for Generals who stole tents while our politicians fleece the public daily and still get away scotfree.

To wit, imagine sections in the army act, where one can be booked and cooked for an act unbecoming of an officer or an act or omission prejudicial to good order and military discipline!

Can you define them or does it give great leeway to use it any way it is so desired?

What about Army Rule where your services can be terminated without reason except for a terse statement that the President is pleased to terminate your services!

But then that is why things move and not drag in the army.

And there must have been injustices also done in the bargain. Who knows?
So, there are things we aren't supposed to know even in administration aspects of the Army.
 

Ray

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I am for an open society.

I am for all able bodied Indians to do military service.

It that happens then all be well and we will have less of armchair strategists and tacticians.

And no military chap fooling the people.

Cuts both ways.

But India is then safe!
 

p2prada

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Na I would prefer the Army keeps to themselves. Somethings don't need to come out. I guess we were simply speculating needlessly in a scenario where we don't have enough info like we do with more civilian related cases like the Adarsh housing scam.
 

The Messiah

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I am for an open society.

I am for all able bodied Indians to do military service.

It that happens then all be well and we will have less of armchair strategists and tacticians.

And no military chap fooling the people.

Cuts both ways.

But India is then safe!
if everyone did few years military service after class 12 then you know how big armed forces will be ? :pound:
 

W.G.Ewald

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if everyone did few years military service after class 12 then you know how big armed forces will be ? :pound:
What about other forms of National Service; police, conservation service, civil projects, etc.?
 

Ray

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A few years of national service in the military will do wonders!

There will be a sense of commitment and a sense of duty.

Check the way the Army wives and children react to demands of time and duty in daily life, who have no official status or grooming as such, and then you will realise it,
 

Payeng

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What about other forms of National Service; police, conservation service, civil projects, etc.?
We have NCC (National Cadet corps) a voluntary organisation while I am a member of Civil Defence I also voluntarily serve for the national cause. During emergency time we get the first preference other then armed force to serve for the National cause.
 

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