Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[Vijyes]

CO 2 lasers are here from a long time ,Soviets had It pn their Space stations,The Americans still have it.If not for that what about KALI(It can be used as a Microwave weapon).

There is no laser, CO2 or otherwise that can hit a missile. If that existed, it would take gigawatt of energy which can't be made as a mobile device like a plane or satellite. These things can produce energy of maximum few megawatts.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

There is no laser, CO2 or otherwise that can hit a missile. If that existed, it would take gigawatt of energy which can't be made as a mobile device like a plane or satellite. These things can produce energy of maximum few megawatts.

What I am saying is a weapon meant to disable a missile and shut down its electronic system like KALI(Potentil Microwave weapon).

 

[Vijyes]

What I am saying is a weapon meant to disable a missile and shut down its electronic system like KALI(Potentil Microwave weapon).

Such a weapon has not been invented yet. Kali may just be a myth.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Such a weapon has not been invented yet. Kali may just be a myth.

Really? These Weapons are here from decades

http://www.popsci.com/china-microwave-weapon-electronic-warfare
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/17/politics/us-navy-drone-laser-weapon/index.html
Boeing YAL-1,Soviet Space Station Laser
And last but not least THEL Of Israel and USA .Even artillery shells were shot down by THEL.
Tactical High Energy Laser

 

[Vijyes]

Really? These Weapons are here from decades

http://www.popsci.com/china-microwave-weapon-electronic-warfare
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/17/politics/us-navy-drone-laser-weapon/index.html
Boeing YAL-1,Soviet Space Station Laser
And last but not least THEL Of Israel and USA .Even artillery shells were shot down by THEL.
Tactical High Energy Laser

Nope. THEL was discontinued as it was too bulky, immobile and too slow to reload/recharge

 

[tharun]

There is no true anti ballistic missile system. Most of the systems are not foolproof. Only short range missiles can be intercepted.

No system is fool proof including SAM's and many others.Any surface to surface missile with range more than 500km is called a ballistic missile with different name.

S400 is imported. We need PDV or Ashwin which is improvised. With Israeli seekers, it is possible. Even BARAK-8 is said to be ABM, though it is neither confirmed nor denied.

Yes S-400 should be imported there is no other option at present.
PDV and ashwin are not SAM's. Barak-8 with a total weight of approx 300kg and warhead of 60kg can it perform ABM role...

 

[tharun]

SAMs are not for area protection but for protection against cruise missiles and aircraft. They are to be deployed near borders against airspace violations

Why do we need protection against cruise missiles and aircraft...?Because their target is the cities and major installations.

We don't just protect 1 city from airspace violations but entire border. SAMs actually make interceptors jobless

Never heard of the word "Multi-layered" defense.No SAM missile can guarantee that it can stop aircraft.Never heard of word hit probability.

SAMs also takes out cruise missiles, subsonic and even Brahmos type (mind you that aircrafts travel at 2Mach and are maneuverable. So, 3Mach non maneuverable brahmos is not a big deal).

It's SAM's only job.

 

[tharun]

After putting in SAMs across borders, the only other thing needed for bases, fuel dumps are ABM protection

What ABM protection for bases..........

If cruise missiles or planes can't get in the border, they can't hit bases either

Never heard of surface to surface missiles..they are cheaper and can be fired in salvos.So you need multi layered defense

The best way to defend fuel dump, factory, ammunition depots is by making them behind mountains, in the valley or even as a tunnel or underground bunkers

Behind mountains....?By the way once you hit the entrance of tunnel it will be end of it.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Nope. THEL was discontinued as it was too bulky, immobile and too slow to reload/recharge

But still weapons like LAWS can be produced.Granted THEL was having size of six city bus,It proves my point that DEW weapons right now are light and maybe be mounted on a Space station or a Sattelite.

 

[Vijyes]

No system is fool proof including SAM's and many others.Any surface to surface missile with range more than 500km is called a ballistic missile with different name.

Yes S-400 should be imported there is no other option at present.
PDV and ashwin are not SAM's. Barak-8 with a total weight of approx 300kg and warhead of 60kg can it perform ABM role...

Why do we need protection against cruise missiles and aircraft...?Because their target is the cities and major installations.

Never heard of the word "Multi-layered" defense.No SAM missile can guarantee that it can stop aircraft.Never heard of word hit probability.

It's SAM's only job.

What ABM protection for bases..........

Never heard of surface to surface missiles..they are cheaper and can be fired in salvos.So you need multi layered defense

Behind mountains....?By the way once you hit the entrance of tunnel it will be end of it.

SAMs are generally fully accurate for aircrafts and subsonic missile. Hit probability of Akash is 88% per missile which means 2 missile and it becomes 98.5%. One can even fire 3 missiles if necessary. Akash SAMs are cheaper and can be used in larger numbers while aircrafts and long range cruise missiles are expensive.

Next,layered defense is something I understand but I don't see the need to waste unnecessarily high resources on inner layers. A minimal defense of 1-2 SAM system per base my be needed.

Ballistic missile, however can only be intercepted at reentry phase as during mid flight, it will be pretty high and intercepting it will be like intercepting satellite. So, ABM have to be a point defence system than can defend only a certain area and not entire border.

Ps:
Ballistic missiles are a different ball game. I am not even considering it now. I will come to it later. But, I want to clarify that all surface to surface missiles of 500km range are not ballistic missiles.

Ballistic Missiles are missiles that work with initial stage powered by rocket and then later guided by gravity. Cruise missiles are jet powered throughout the flight and are not guided by gravity but by rocket motor till it hits the target. It has some Maneuverability during flight. You can consider cruise missiles to be like UAV with less maneuverability while ballistic missiles are like big bullets flying after being fired from cannon.

Now, the cruise missiles and aircrafts are slower than ballistic missiles as they follow a controlled flight by their motors while ballistic missiles fly in exo atmosphere zone and travel at 6Mach + speed for MRBM (Medium range ballistic missile with range 500+ km to 2500km). Ballistic Missiles face little air resistance as they travel in exo atmosphere and hence can maintain the speed. Cruise missile have to have lower speed due to air resistance and motor limitations. Cruise missiles have much better accuracy than ballistic missiles while they are easier to intercept. Ballistic missile on the other hand are much less accurate and can't maneuver to hit behind hillside, tunnels. They are generally good for hitting civilian open areas and not military assets

 

[tharun]

AMs are generally fully accurate for aircrafts and subsonic missile. Hit probability of Akash is 88% per missile which means 2 missile and it becomes 98.5%. One can even fire 3 missiles if necessary.

Aircraft have different defense system like shaffs,flare and on board EW to evade SAM's so accuracy is always doubtful. Cruise can't escape.

Akash SAMs are cheaper and can be used in larger numbers while aircrafts and long range cruise missiles are expensive.

Cheaper is not matter..logistics matters.
You can't just refill them just like MBRL. And aircraft is costlier and cruise missiles cost max of $2million dollars.

Next,layered defense is something I understand but I don't see the need to waste unnecessarily high resources on inner layers. A minimal defense of 1-2 SAM system per base my be needed.

Nothing is waste...if you want to protect from on slaughter of MBRL salvo you need point defence not SAM's because point defense is cheaper.

Ballistic missile, however can only be intercepted at reentry phase as during mid flight, it will be pretty high and intercepting it will be like intercepting satellite. So, ABM have to be a point defence system than can defend only a certain area and not entire border.

ABM's are not point defence. They are theater defense.

Ballistic missiles are a different ball game. I am not even considering it now. I will come to it later. But, I want to clarify that all surface to surface missiles of 500km range are not ballistic missiles.Then why we call our prithvi missile with range of 150+ called a SRBM.

Ballistic Missiles are missiles that work with initial stage powered by rocket and then later guided by gravity.

Yes long range surface to surface missiles does the same trajectory example ATCAMS

 

[Vijyes]

Aircraft have different defense system like shaffs,flare and on board EW to evade SAM's so accuracy is always doubtful. Cruise can't escape.

Cheaper is not matter..logistics matters.
You can't just refill them just like MBRL. And aircraft is costlier and cruise missiles cost max of $2million dollars.

Nothing is waste...if you want to protect from on slaughter of MBRL salvo you need point defence not SAM's because point defense is cheaper.

ABM's are not point defence. They are theater defense.

Yes long range surface to surface missiles does the same trajectory example ATCAMS

Aircraft may have better defence against air missiles but land based SAMs rely on radar guidance and are not like BVR which are fire and forget. Akash SAM, for example gets its input from both ground based radar as well as its own seekers in the last stage. It is extremely difficult to fool ground based radars from chaffe or flares.

No MBRL can target for more than 100km inside border. Iron Domes etc are needed only for poor Israel as its entire country is as large as Karachi and it can be hit by MBRL or other Katyusha/RPG rockets. India doesn't need MBRL defense. No cruise missile can be fired as MBRL. The loading of cruise missiles are slower than loading SAMs.

Theatre defence and point defence are Similar in functionality but different in terms of range and capabilities. A better ABM gives theatre defence whereas a weaker or lesser resolution ABM give point defence. The difference is similar to defence between akash and Barak. Point defence is cheaper and is better use of resources for military installations

Surface to surface missile is a meaningless category. It is too general. It is necessary to specify the type of missiles like cruise or ballistic. Even air launched cruise missiles are similar to surface launched cruise missiles (ballistic missiles can't be air launched).

 

[Vijyes]

This basically covers entire Pak.

So we can detect every BM launch, if we have something similar in Bombay, we will be able to track their BM path.

Recently the MoD had threatened an audition into BMD of india claiming that the drdo had fed the prithvi missile trajectory beforehand into the BMD to make the intercept easier. I am not sure what happened to it. But if that is true, then the so called tracking may be a bogus.

I will post the link to it if I can get it once again

 

[Vijyes]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/05/mod-demands-early-induction-of.html?m=1

Here is the link of the news

 

[Willy2]

I think it's right thread...

Is't hoax- rumors ? does seniors here knows about it ? @sayareakd

 

[sthf]

@Willy2 Rumours about a 250km range XR-SAM have been floating steadily for 2 years or so. This is the first time I am hearing about a 400km one. 250km variant was supposed to leverage technologies developed for MR/LR SAM namely motor or booster with second stage being the Meteor equivalent developed by DRDO.

Saurav Jha is usually right on money so if it is indeed him then I wouldn't disregard this rumour right now.

 

[PD_Solo]

Aircraft have different defense system like shaffs,flare and on board EW to evade SAM's so accuracy is always doubtful. Cruise can't escape.

Cheaper is not matter..logistics matters.
You can't just refill them just like MBRL. And aircraft is costlier and cruise missiles cost max of $2million dollars.

Nothing is waste...if you want to protect from on slaughter of MBRL salvo you need point defence not SAM's because point defense is cheaper.

ABM's are not point defence. They are theater defense.

Yes long range surface to surface missiles does the same trajectory example ATCAMS

The range of modern IIR seekers is actually pretty impressive and even before IIR, legacy IR missiles were fitted with algorithms to avoid being spoofed, when you combine that with IIR it gets real difficult to spoof. Then you have dual waveband and amplitude filtering IIR seekers that are difficult to jam even with DIRCM.

Very less chance of flare/chaff working against IIR .

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

[sayareakd]

I think it's right thread...

Is't hoax- rumors ? does seniors here knows about it ? @sayareakd

View attachment 20228

some talk going on about it, lets wait and watch, official policy of DRDO, unless the system is sufficiently reached the stage where other countries don't hurt the project, only then they expose the product to the public and world. Till such time, they will not give any details. So they are working on lot of things, but they will not give any info about it. So info do come from unofficial sources.

 

[Aghore_King]

@Willy2 Rumours about a 250km range XR-SAM have been floating steadily for 2 years or so. This is the first time I am hearing about a 400km one. 250km variant was supposed to leverage technologies developed for MR/LR SAM namely motor or booster with second stage being the Meteor equivalent developed by DRDO.

Saurav Jha is usually right on money so if it is indeed him then I wouldn't disregard this rumour right now.

yeah it is true... S 300 class missile defense by Drdo .. .

 

[sayareakd]

yeah it is true... S 300 class missile defense by Drdo .. .

actually after Kargil war, when we were close to nuke war, it was decided to go for BMD, although Dr. Kalam had made presentation to Gujral and others, it was only when after Kargil that go ahead was given for BMD. All the known options were checked and non was found suitable for our condition.

So it was decided to have our own. PAD, AAD and now PDV is product of that. S300 was found unfit, still some units was taken for tests (no confirmation for that). Now that we have perfected PAD, AAD and we are going for Stage 2 of BMD (PDV looks like interim work, i posted details earlier).

Now they want to have long range SAM, with things what we have learn from our BMD. These will help us for SAM. May be some BMD capabilities, but mostly long range SAM.