Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by chex3009, Jan 8, 2011.
Only by MARCOS
Its a shame those poor pakis having Barrett M82 in there army & IA yent un decided about advance AMR
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSIdb95CTdMcX9D6C_oSZP28MiZjvXq5xZ_3LnyOS9IS7dS-VTXg Bheja fry effectof .50cal (Warning :graphic)
Yep. $8900 is the civilian manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP). It can be less or more depending on demand. Military and police can get it at a deep discount. A good glass will run around $2k civilian price.
Some of the contents and commens of the post are simply accusatory, insulting and provocative.
Army wants an AMR which is less than 15 kg and there is suggestion that - No you damn will carry 25 Kg because our weapon is 25 kg. - hilarious to say the least.
I am sure none of the commentetor have even carried five kg in mountains and deserts and high altitude areas over short or long distances. a soldier is supposed to carry about 24 kg of his requirement, plus 25 kg of gun plus weight of ammunition - that means about more than 50 kh. Which commentetor is a volunteer to give himself to trail. I shall help him out !!
There commentetors here who wish to write GSQR themselves or force IA to accept their weapons QR.
It is very simple - Army wants a weaon less than 15 Kg - then bloody make it less than 15 kg rather than whinning about foreign mal, foreign whishky and commission etc.
I really wonder why such posts and commenting are not considred inappropriate trolling and having zero content. Why moderators are "mehrbaan" on these. I am sure the aim of DFI is not" Force Bashing" . But there are many here who are very keen to do that for verious reasons and because it is acceptable her.
BSF has bought it so you also buy is strange argument. BSF has its own role and conditions. They simply have to deploy those weapons on their fortifications such as BOPs . BSF does not have to go into enemy territory hunting enemy vehicles or bunkers. It is not meant for mounting attacks inside enemy territory.
AMR in ambush, snipper and destruction role is required to be shifted quickly from one position to another under combat conditions and there are people here who wish a weight of 25 kgs to be handled.
Indian Army has their AMR which they have operated and used. Their GSQR reflects their experiences with that weapon, their requirements and felt needs. Why should that be made to suit OFV product ? Why can not OFB reduce the weight?
The suggestion that the GSQR has been written to keep out OFB product is simply nasty and unfounded.
More than that the moderators and forum accepts that.
Were such comments made on OFB or DRDO he would be banned !!
Funny how the requirements change overnight as soon as a domestic product in the category is available. Army makes requirements for NTW-20, Vidhwansak matches and exceeds it, army changes requirements in a matter of 5 years. Smooth, real smooth.
@Bhadra, did Army give a GSQR to DRDO to develop AMR with less than 15kg weight. If yes, and DRDO did not deliver, then you have a point.
If no requirement was placed on DRDO then you are shooting arrows in the air.
I have no problems with Army importing AMR overseas. But it is a joke India buying low-tech items overseas. Which other major country does that?
Like all others I do not shoot in the dark..
AMRs were purchsed by IA during Kargil conflict in certain numbers ...since then IA have been using AMR.
Now there is a requirement of 1000 more so IA has made a GSQR..
Ever GSQR is studied by DRDO and if they are able to make it then they say so. IA does have to place GSQR with DRDO, it is part of the process. Had you known that you would not have shot in the dark.
In the mean time OFB have made one version of AMR on their own. They did not ask Indian Army before making it.
Now they wish to thrust that on IA !! Why ? Did they make that weapon for IA GSQR ?
Selection of a weapon to carry out their task is the job of Army and not that of DRDO or OFB as is being demanded here.
Army already operate small number of Gepard MG6 Lynx imported from Hungry, These are specific needs for SF ..
1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA, 1000 more is going for SF only ..
Regular Infantry will be using Vidawanshak as its use 20mm as well ..
User trails by Indian Army does not occur with out requirement given on first place then inductions >>
Source : The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation
Read more at: OFT develops ultra-modern futuristic weapons - News Oneindia
Don`t spread disinformation ..
Your above although highly provocative post, but it is the other side of the argument.
To augument your vocabulary, I was born and brought up at about 7000 feet city of Shimla, I know more about load carrying capacity of young man at high altitudes. Not only that I have been to Rohtang pass in 1962 during the Chinese invasion, at that time, me at the age of 20 carried 40 pounds of load and, supplies etc on our back, although we were not conditioned as yet for an altitude of 14,000 feet in the month of November. A fully conditioned soldier should be able to carry his personal stuff and half of 25 kg of rifle.
You have bad argument about making a 15 kg rifle for DRDO. If they could, they and the rest of the world would have done it by now. It is possible only with experience, extra-ordinary skills and innovation. All these come with time. Mr Barrett the maker of 15 Kg AMR, spent his life time from 1972 building his rifle. He had huge experience behind him, his family also has all that experience. His first attempt in 1982 after working for ten years was flimsy looking bulky rifle. Next twenty years he refined it and made a 15 kg. rifle. With that kind of time frame at disposal, DRDO would be able to make it. Are you not glad that they successfully reverse engineered a Denel rifle way back in 2004.
You are foolish not to touch on economics of imports. Barrett 15 kg. rifle is 5 to 6 times more expensive than locally produced rifle.
GSQR are clearly flimsy attempt by the army to write specs skewed in favor of whatever they like which is mostly imports. All wishes expressed in GSQR are usually copy of glossy import brochures. Some time that equipment does not exist. It is pity to note that after writing the GSQR, the army has a hands off attitude. If a local supplier emerges who is not experienced, army tries to stay aloof with the intent that he fails, which will give army time to find fault and opt for import. (That attitude is a bad management of nascent supplier who is learning tricks of the trade).
If I were in a battle I would rather have a 25 kg rifle by my side than have none at all. I am sure Indian army at those prices would have none at all. This army of ours is making bad choices of neither helping development work nor ever thinking of economics. Remember all future battles, India has to fight have to be fought with local home grown stuff. Foreign suppliers have a bad tendency to follow each other's high morale and withhold critical supplies. In previously fought wars, critical supplies were held up in 1965, 1971 and 1999 war. They argue the morality of the war, but make the war materiel and supply to both sides to get them in war mode. At that time their high moral standards take aback seat.
To your rude reply, I have given you a similar. If you differ with somebody or you do not like his views, you advance yours. The better argument wins the point. Troll is a misleading word, to be used sparingly including you. And trying to ask moderator to intervene on your behalf to back up your point of view is a bad argument in itself.
Now you have made a point and I have made a point, let us not argue further, let others throw in their views.
I am not expecting your reply; let others participate.
The Army is "shaan" or pride of the country. The army sets an example for millions of young men and women.
What army does is followed by a lot of people. If the army does not have confidence in the people of this country, then who will? Who does the Indian Army represent?
I agree that the Congressi culture reduced the role of the Army. But that is no longer the case. The army must seize the opportunity to set the boat right. There is a government that is supporting the services. What is services doing in return?
Yes the army can buy according to its needs. Nobody questions that. But those needs must be realistic and take into account the capabilities of the nation. The army must be told to source from local manufacturers except in very rare cases where technological base does not exist.
Answer my question raised by me on post deleted by you deliberately......
Show me the GSQR given by the Army to DRDO or Ordinance factory as being claimed here... rather than flaunting your photos
And you may be a photographer but you do not seem to have any idea about the use etc of the AMR when you claim that "1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA" as if IA will be fightng the war using AMRs..
Firstly AMRs are not authorised weapons ...if you do not know that..
Secondly, requirements of AMR is task and terrain specefic and special requirement.. and all battalions are not required to be equipped with it except for training purposes.
Thirdly no battalion requires AMR more than two to three in numbers and about 2000 of those are more than sufficient... not as you are dreaming.
Fourthly, I do not have privilidges to delete your posts so please do not answer to my posts after having deleted the post ... that is misuse of a moderators priviledges..
When you express your view you are a member and not a moderator...
GSQR are not issued for Internet, These are for Official business, Their is enough source provided for the reason stated above ..
Just like Flamethrowers, I am aware and that is the reason ..
You cannot go personal with member if their view does not suit your view, Calling any one lair is not fair with or without source , This further effect ongoing debate into mud-fest and cannot be tolerated ..
@Kunal Biswas & @Ray sir - How are the field reports of the Vidhwansak. It is supposed to have a quick barrel change to switch between different calibres. It is heavier that other weapons in its class, from what I have read and that BSF uses it currently.
Do you see Vidhwansak being the one-stop answer for all AMRs in Indian defence forces.
The answer is no as it cannot be carried with maneuverability as smaller AMR ..
Guys please read this......(I posted it here for Vidhwansak).
Poeple are shouting here that Army gave QSR or Vidwansak is as per Army requirements ... then calling Army verious names....
If they are doing that they must support their namecalling nonsense..
That is all...
I don`t see any name calling, The GSQR issued before and now are different in different times and for different reason and for different forces ..
That is all ..
@Bhadra, your point is acknowledged and appreciated.
No problem in importing an item where technology does not exist in India. However Army should develop local sources. We have to go from a "buyer" army to "developer" army. The requirements of army can help create a technological base in the country.
I am only trying to be objective. Baseless allegations should not be accepted.
Separate names with a comma.