Indian Army to purchase 1000 anti-materiel rifles

[plugwater]

Manc CAG will hand IA for this. more so if it cost 4.5 times more

here link to CAG http://www.cag.gov.in/

Simple saya IA can say OFB product doesn't suit their requirement.

 

[sayareakd]

It must be a mistake saya. Like you said if they had done little research for eliminating Vidhsanwak means they should not have made that mistake.

Group of spotters ? What is the need for that ? Little more info please.

manc when you are aiming at 1.5 km and one the spotter is with the shooter other spotter can be close to target like special forces who will wait and see the target (called scouts) at close distance. remember Border movie when the scouts were send to check the movement of tanks in the movie they informed back. Those can be used to direct firing at targets.

 

[plugwater]

manc when you are aiming at 1.5 km and one the spotter is with the shooter other spotter can be close to target like special forces who will wait and see the target (called scouts) at close distance. remember Border movie when the scouts were send to check the movement of tanks in the movie they informed back. Those can be used to direct firing at targets.

I never heard or seen group of spotters in any movie. Border is an old movie and we didnt use sniper in that. To check the target after shooting spotter can use his scope. Now-a-days extra spotter is a wastage of resources imo.

 

[sayareakd]

 

[bengalraider]

I never heard or seen group of spotters in any movie. Border is an old movie and we didnt use sniper in that. To check the target after shooting spotter can use his scope. Now-a-days extra spotter is a wastage of resources imo.

@manc- a spotter is indispensable, let me explain

1) a spotter is the sniper's bodyguard, in the event that the team is detected and attacked the spotter is the member of the team that carries an assault rifle to fight the attackers with.A sniper rifle is often the only weapon other than a pistol the sniper can carry.

2) A spotter checks the trajectory of the bullet fired by observing the vapor trail left by the bullet(yes he does that as hard as it may sound, you may check it up) . he then provides the sniper corrective tips in the case however unlikely that the first shot misses.

3) the spotter is also a sniper and vice versa, looking through a scope for hours on end is hard work for the eyes. harder still when you know that your quarry may escape the moment you take your eyes of him.normally a sniper and his spotter alternate positions every few hours so that neither gets bored and neither suffers from eye fatigue.

4) most importantly a spotter is the sniper's apprentice, no matter how much training you get nothing compares to learning in the field . every fresh graduate of sniper school no matter how good he is is first assigned to be a spotter only when he can accomplish the role of a spotter correctly does he get to assume the hallowed mantle of a sniper.

British sniper team of sniper and spotter from the Mercian Regiment pictured on operations in Helmand, Afghanistan, 2009. Note the extent to which the sniper's L96 bolt-action rifle has been camouflaged to match the environment.
U.S. Marine Corps photo by Gunnery Sgt. James A. Burks/Released

I hope i was able to satisfactorily clear your doubts!

 

[plugwater]

Thanks for the info Bengalrider, really helpful. Saya mentioned about sniper team with group of spotters. Little more info on that please as i never heard about it.

 

[bengalraider]

Thanks for the info Bengalrider, really helpful. Saya mentioned about sniper team with group of spotters. Little more info on that please as i never heard about it.

What saya is talking about is exceedingly rare, generally the team consists of only two men a spotter and a sniper. however in unique circumstances concerning credible intel concerning high value targets that may have multiple routes of entry and exit from a particular area a sniper team may be deployed consisting of multiple snipers and spotters that occupy points of interest along the entry and exit route of the target/targets. in such a case the spotters communicate among themselves using secure radios to warn or guide the other team about dangers or the targets position ,never does the sniper use the radio.the spotters build a consensus as to whose shooter has the best shot and then call the shot, this is done to avoid confusion and collateral damage(not to mention bullets flying all over the place). a good example would be the counter sniper teams deployed to guard high profile politicians from terrorist attacks during high profile functions etc.

 

[plugwater]

What saya is talking about is exceedingly rare, generally the team consists of only two men a spotter and a sniper. however in unique circumstances concerning credible intel concerning high value targets that may have multiple routes of entry and exit from a particular area a sniper team may be deployed consisting of multiple snipers and spotters that occupy points of interest along the entry and exit route of the target/targets. in such a case the spotters communicate among themselves using secure radios to warn or guide the other team about dangers or the targets position ,never does the sniper use the radio.the spotters build a consensus as to whose shooter has the best shot and then call the shot, this is done to avoid confusion and collateral damage(not to mention bullets flying all over the place). a good example would be the counter sniper teams deployed to guard high profile politicians from terrorist attacks during high profile functions etc.

Thanks bengalraider

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the rfi issued by the army is specifically designed to rule any possible induction of vidhwanshak.remember the need of such rifles aroused after the kargil war so why didn't the army issue the rfi earlier?the army itself was interested in denelbefore it was blacklisted.the bsf has purchased 100 vidhwanshak.so is bsf a fool? the denel is used by south africa and many other countries(its weight is similar to vidhwanshak and supports only two calibers. if india wants to purchase everything which the us purchases then i think is a total waste of money. m82 suppots only 12.7 caliber but vidhwanshak supports 3 different calibers.indian army soldiers carry 25kg easily and para's can carry even double that combat load.so weight is not a problem since it has a two man crew.

 

[plugwater]

BSF is not going to cross the border and fight the enemy. They are keeping these rifles in their watch towers and not even moving. So don again blame it on IA.

Has Vidhwansak satisfy IA RFI ? NO

What about XM109 ? Lighter and can support higher caliber.

 

[bengalraider]

I think the Barrett XM500 has this deal in the bag, also i think we are overreacting without knowing the complete fact, 1000 riles is too small a number to be of any consequence in a million man army. i believe that these rifles are being acquired for a very specialized group/team within the IA ,in the same way that the TAVOR was acquired for use by the SF. whereas the rank and file of the IA shall continue to use the Vidhwansak AMR and the lynx.

I think the XM500 is a good gun

Caliber: .50BMG (12.7x99mm)
Operation: gas operated, semi-automatic
Barrel: n/a
Weight: 11.8 kg
Length: 1168 mm (46")
Feed Mechanism: 10 rounds detachable box magazine

XM500 rifle is the most recent creation of famous American Barrett Firearms co. This rifle, first shown in 2006, is intended to provide lighter and more compact alternative to popular Barrett M82 "Light fifty" rifle,which is widely used by military and law enforcement forces around the world.The new weapon will provide better accuracy (because of stationary,non-recoiling barrel) and same range as Light Fifty, while being lighter and significantly shorter, thanks to its bullpup layout. According to available information, this rifle is developed primarily for US Armed forces, and is still in development / prototype stage.
Barrett XM500 long range sniper / anti-material rifle is a gas operated,semiautomatic rifle. Gas chamber and piston are located above the barrel. Barrelis locked using rotary bolt. Stock is of bullpup layout and made of metal, with rubber buttplate. Rifle is fitted with detachable lightweight bipods, adjustable for height. There are no open sights as of now, but rifle is fitted with integral Picatinny rail on the top of the receiver, so any type of sights can be installed using appropriate mounting interfaces.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/usa/barret-xm500-e.html

 

[Sikh_warrior]

There are a total of 21 Anti-Material Rifles Weapons in the Military Factory. Entries are listed below in alphanumeric order. Flag images indicative of country of origin.

Anti-Material Rifles

 

[ALBY]

guys here is a video about a semi automatic sniper matching accuracy that of a bolt action one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fA_...thumbs/Images/sniper/sn67/ai-as50-0.jpg[/IMG]

 

[Hari Sud]

It is definitely a case of 2002-04 era army brass which developed a liking for Barrett rifle, turned around and wrote GSQR to match the Barrett. All justifications about two man and inability to carry local Vidhawansak rifle are fake. BSF Jawans carry it, so can the army Jawans.

Since then the GSQR is quoted to reject all contenders for the rifle.

Imagine army without an anti material rifle going into battle and is unable to bust bunkers, light armoured cars and other fortifications which the enemy has built. That is the time they will miss Vidhawansak. They would regret not having it. Although the brass will blame Babus, but fault is all there's.

Since these type of rifles are used from a mile away, I do not understand reluctance of the army who pretend that a two man team would tire themselves carrying a 25 kg rifle. Now imagine that army does not have it, they are giving the enemy chance to put them on run.

What is better, beat the hell out of the enemy or run like hell because the enemy soldiers can carry a heavier kind of rifle.

Once again, it is tax payer's money. There is a hell of a lot of price difference between $20,00 rifle and a $90,000 rifle. Both do the same job. One is heavier other is lighter because it has composite and titanium as materials used. If it is a question of life and death, victory or defeat, I will carry whatever, I can lay my hands on, instead of waiting for the pie in the sky.

 

[sgarg]

DRDO should develop a product as per army requirements and not whatever they wish. USA uses M82 rifle which is only 14kg if DRDO is so good means why not make a gun which matches M82 or something what IA wants rather than whining about IA!!

I would expect every IA soldier to be equipped with more advanced weapon not some DRDO 25kg crap for 12.7mm. I bet IA planners know what they are doing.

This is not a very big item, so let the Army have the imported one.

However they should buy local Vidhwansak also in equal quantity so they have backup from a local vendor.

 

[Ky Loung]

@manc- a spotter is indispensable, let me explain

1) a spotter is the sniper's bodyguard, in the event that the team is detected and attacked the spotter is the member of the team that carries an assault rifle to fight the attackers with.A sniper rifle is often the only weapon other than a pistol the sniper can carry.

2) A spotter checks the trajectory of the bullet fired by observing the vapor trail left by the bullet(yes he does that as hard as it may sound, you may check it up) . he then provides the sniper corrective tips in the case however unlikely that the first shot misses.

3) the spotter is also a sniper and vice versa, looking through a scope for hours on end is hard work for the eyes. harder still when you know that your quarry may escape the moment you take your eyes of him.normally a sniper and his spotter alternate positions every few hours so that neither gets bored and neither suffers from eye fatigue.

4) most importantly a spotter is the sniper's apprentice, no matter how much training you get nothing compares to learning in the field . every fresh graduate of sniper school no matter how good he is is first assigned to be a spotter only when he can accomplish the role of a spotter correctly does he get to assume the hallowed mantle of a sniper.

British sniper team of sniper and spotter from the Mercian Regiment pictured on operations in Helmand, Afghanistan, 2009. Note the extent to which the sniper's L96 bolt-action rifle has been camouflaged to match the environment.
U.S. Marine Corps photo by Gunnery Sgt. James A. Burks/Released

I hope i was able to satisfactorily clear your doubts!

1. That is correct. A spotter also act as a body guard when the team is moving to another location. The spotter carry an auto rifle like M4, M16, etc.

2. The spotter determined the distant for elevation and windage. The spotter will tell the sniper if it hit or miss by observing the impact of the bullet. If the shot missed the target he will tell the sniper the adjustment needed to be made in regard to where the bullet impacted.

3. The spotter is also the sniper. Both are train to do both jobs.

4. The spotter is not the sniper's apprentice. In fact the spotter tends to be the senior and most experienced of the two. Here is why. The spotter pick the target. The spotter job is to spot. His primary job, to find counter snipers first. The more experience the better chances of detecting counter snipers and eliminating them first.

Windage and elevation. Finding the correct distance to the target is easy. Changing the elevation of the scope is a constant. If you know the distance you know the correct elevation needed. Windage on the other hand takes a lot of experience. The further the target the more wind will affect the trajectory of the bullet. Windage will be affected by the terrain. So you need a lot of experience to determine the correct windage. It doesn't matter how good you are if you can't determine the correct elevation and windage you will always miss.

The spotter pick the target and gives the green light to take the shot.

 

[Ky Loung]

I think the Barrett XM500 has this deal in the bag, also i think we are overreacting without knowing the complete fact, 1000 riles is too small a number to be of any consequence in a million man army. i believe that these rifles are being acquired for a very specialized group/team within the IA ,in the same way that the TAVOR was acquired for use by the SF. whereas the rank and file of the IA shall continue to use the Vidhwansak AMR and the lynx.

I think the XM500 is a good gun

Caliber: .50BMG (12.7x99mm)
Operation: gas operated, semi-automatic
Barrel: n/a
Weight: 11.8 kg
Length: 1168 mm (46")
Feed Mechanism: 10 rounds detachable box magazine

XM500 rifle is the most recent creation of famous American Barrett Firearms co. This rifle, first shown in 2006, is intended to provide lighter and more compact alternative to popular Barrett M82 "Light fifty" rifle,which is widely used by military and law enforcement forces around the world.The new weapon will provide better accuracy (because of stationary,non-recoiling barrel) and same range as Light Fifty, while being lighter and significantly shorter, thanks to its bullpup layout. According to available information, this rifle is developed primarily for US Armed forces, and is still in development / prototype stage.
Barrett XM500 long range sniper / anti-material rifle is a gas operated,semiautomatic rifle. Gas chamber and piston are located above the barrel. Barrelis locked using rotary bolt. Stock is of bullpup layout and made of metal, with rubber buttplate. Rifle is fitted with detachable lightweight bipods, adjustable for height. There are no open sights as of now, but rifle is fitted with integral Picatinny rail on the top of the receiver, so any type of sights can be installed using appropriate mounting interfaces.

Modern Firearms - Barret XM500

You do not want to shoot a bullpup .50BMG. If it KABOOM!, dieing painless is lucky. If you survive suck to be you.

You do not want to hump anti-materiel rifle on foot patrol. They are heavy and unbalance. Than there is the big ass heavy ammo you have to carry. Anti-materiel rifle tend to be stationary in defensive position or store in vehicle for deployment.

 

[charlie]

Barrett M82 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nitesh it cost around 89000 USD whereas Vidhwansak, is about 20,000 USD, and Denel NTW-20 AMR more than 45,000 USD.

so it will be waste of money to go for anything but Vidhwansak.

Barrett_M82 dose not cost 89000 USD, actually no gun till .50 cal off the shelf will cost more then 25,000. I think that's the maximum cost even if you use Schmidt & Bender optics, best picatinny rail, best scope mount & bipods.

I think custom guns can get little more expensive but still nothing over $30,000 that includes everything.

Barrett_M82 cost is between $8000 to $10000 depending on accessories

http://www.barrett.net/pdfs/price-list.pdf

 

[hitesh]

Congratulations for bringing alive a 2011 thread

 

[Austinjimson]

I think Indian army has OSV-96 as anti-material sniper rifle.