Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by WolfPack86, Sep 30, 2018.
Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.
Indian Army SIG Sauer 716 assault rifle.
The fast-track procurement process for the rifles has not yet been finalised, and will likely be pushed back to April next year.
New Delhi: A rifle made by US-based SiG Sauer, the SiG 716, could well be the replacement for the Indian Army’s INSAS, after it emerged as the lowest bidder last week in a tender for standard-issue assault rifles.
The Army had issued a tender in February to buy 72,000 assault rifles, the primary weapon of the soldier in the frontlines, and 94,000 carbines through a ‘fast-track procedure’.
“But the procurement process is still being refined,” a defence ministry source told ThePrint.
Also read: Nuclear-armed neighbours India & Pakistan have been looking for modern rifles for years now
The rifle procurement programme will most likely be pushed to the next financial year (April 2019), by when the country is scheduled to be in the throes of a general election.
For the Army’s requirement of close quarter battle carbines, UAE-based Caracal’s CAR816 has made the cut as the lowest bidder.
For any rifle-maker, Indian orders are potentially among the most lucrative in the world.
The total projected requirement for rifles of different calibre over 10 years is 7 lakh assault rifles, 4.4 lakh carbines and 41,000 light machine guns (LMGs).
This includes procurement for paramilitary forces that are usually dictated by what the Army chooses. But the procurement process for the paramilitary forces is not the same as those for the defence services.
Also read: While Indian Army globetrots in search of a modern rifle, a hi-tech one is made in Chambal
What Army is looking for
The Army is, in the first instance, looking for two kinds of assault rifles, in a process that has been marked by confusion within the defence establishment and within the forces. The assault rifles for the frontline troops are required to have a range of 500m and those for the supporting soldiers, 300m.
It is also looking at the Russian AK-103, which is likely to be made in collaboration with the Ordnance Factory Board. Talks on this are likely during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to New Delhi this week (4-5 October).
The fast-track procedure envisages procurement within 28 months of a contract being signed. Negotiations are yet to start. The government can at any time take an executive decision to contract, citing emergency reasons for procurement.
India’s search for a standard issue rifle to replace the INSAS began around the time of the Kargil war (1999). It has been through cycles of tenders and cancellations but, barring a few thousands that were bought mostly for special forces, the bulk order has languished.
Also read: Indian Army to cut down modern rifles order to 250,000
In January, Army chief General Bipin Rawat sought to streamline the process.
“My thinking is, since a state-of-the art assault rifle will cost about Rs 2 lakh each in the global market, let us issue these only to frontline infantry soldiers who confront the enemy armed only with their rifles,” Gen. Rawat explained just before Army Day (15 January).
“Let us provide a cheaper indigenous option to other soldiers for whom the (assault) rifle is not a primary weapon.”
The “cheaper, indigenous” version is a potential order for 6,50,000 AK-103s likely to be licence-produced by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).
A team of nine officers visited the US, Australia, Israel, South Korea and the UAE to evaluate the rifles earlier this year.
This is going to sound very superficial, but I just don't like the thought of Kalashnikovs being the main assault rifle for the Indian army. They do not have a modern appearance and almost no professional army uses them as standard. I'm sure the AK 103 is modern and will suit the requirements of the army, but I don't like the visuals in my head of Kalashnikovs becoming standard for most troops.
I hope they at least have picatinny rails and adjustable buttstock as standard.
I dont know why they're making things complicated by having one group with AR15 babies, then another with a whole different AK line.
I am not a fan of the Print..but "the procurement process is still being refined" - sums everything up. Too bad they can't get an Indian gun and "refine" it..just pathetic
Can somebody educate us on the merits and demerits of the Sig Rifle.
It is not the most popular make internationally but it is AR -15 Avatar. There are other AR 15 Avatars in America, all similarly priced at about $3000 retail. Indian Army preferred this one for some good reasons. Yes, Sig from Switzerland is a famous gun maker. For some reason they went to US to make it and price it for India.
Does the deal include assemble in India only or there is TOT so that India could in future learn about metallurgy and machining of American rifles. The latter puts Indian built rifles far apart.
AK's can be pretty too.
OFB was showing the AK103 off before this news even broke.
As far as I know, AK is although isn't reliable but has very precise accuracy up to 200 meters (I could be wrong). It's the only weapon with enough stopping power, 1 bullet is all you need to stop a 90kg mass to a full stop. Hell Ya. Russian army uses it, so something might be good about it.
Can somebody throw more light to why this weapon was chosen and why are GHATAK rifle ain't come close to it. Kab tak foreign mal chalega? If my memory serves me right, PA is also ordered SIG SAUR rifles although not sure about make, barrel and rounds and chamber.
One thing I do see is the barrel length, is it 16 or 12 inch barrel. Hmm interesting.
You are not alone on this one. The tender has been made too much complicated. Besides, I don't see any point in purchasing a rifle which is at the end of it's life cycle. The rifles don't look good either but that's not the main issue.
One thing that makes sense is that the intial purchase of sig is on emergency basis. We need more 2,50,000 of these rifles which would be ordered later on after testing etc. These are going for the troops at border and CT operations. Whilet he 6.25 lakh rifles (AK 103) are going to be for the troops which don't directly face enemy. This makes sense due the reason that chances of entire 8 lakh army facing action is very rare and army can save money for other upgrades.
Still not convinced with the selection of a 7.62x51 mm rifle unless used as a DMR.
I think Insas was an excellent concept totally screwed up by OFB's quality control.
I still think we can rework the Insas by inviting pvt. players. Similar to what British did to the SA80.
If it is Sig Sauer 716 DMR than it will be game up from that Soviet relic Dragunov but it is priced $1000 more but effective range around 950m also have 20 rounds significantly more than dragunov
So how does it compare with Tavor?
The actual rifle would be SIG DMR G2(Generation 2). According to very knowledgeable sources here is US, it's a very very accurate(1/2 to 3/4 MOA), very reliable and modular. It's way more accutate than the Dragunov (a dedicated DMR) and outclasses Tavor in accuracy and range....Also, it's more versatile than a dedicated DMR as it can be used and a Patrol Rifle / Battle rifle too..
It's in the same class of very high quality DMRs like HK 417 and LMT DMR. Also, i think our NSG acquired these rifles in numbers, and NSG goes only for the very best !!!
The snapshot below is what is posted in some other thread but this will add to the above....
If this news about SIG 7.62x51 rifle is true......It's very good news !!!
It would be even better if we adopt the SIG MCX Virtus (in 5.56 and .300 Black out)..... That way Indian Army can have a single type weapon platform (almost) for all three caliber IA uses (7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5.56x45)....as .300 blackout is very very similar to 7.62x39 and more versatile......
Also, the SIG MCX Virtus is the best and most advanced 5.56 platform today, as per me....It easily beats HK 416....and many German and many many European police and anti terrorist special units have adopted it...and you'll see many more adopting it in future.......
Is it a good decision to spend $3000 per rifle. You will buy three Caracal in the same class of rifles.
Simple question is .....how do we know that Sig has asked for 3000 $ per rifle and Caracal has Quoted 1000 $ ???
Because if that was the case then Caracal would have been the L1 lowest bidder winner and not Sig......
Just because a gun is priced at 3000$ in US market, doesn't mean that , it would be a quoted price in a major international tender.....Companies often bring down the per unit price, if the numbers are big and the contract is prestigious ...
Is it alright to conclude that with one stroke, India is about to purchase a world beating rifle not possessed now or likely to be possessed by our enemies to the West (Pakistan) or to the North (China).
I see your point....but the selected rifle or rifles would be subjected to tests (as per me )....and only subject to passing of the tests, it would be inducted.....
I think that's a fair process....which is shortlist lowest biders amongst the reputed /shortlisted vendors....test their products and ultimately choose the best performing...after all the best rifle won't come from space
It is obvious that bulk orders mean lower prices that's why Sig is L1 bidder but you are confusing two categories caracel is L1 for carbines will replace 9mm carbine and Sig Sauer 716 will replace assault rifles which is basically akm and insas
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