Indian Army: News and Discussion

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
Indian army has been using AWAN and ASCON since five years.
That's ok but my point was regarding unification of processes in to "paperless". IAF has become complete paperless in terms of inventory management. But I don't think IA has achieved that level.

IAF uses AFNET it's network is completely isolated I don't think IA has achieved that level quite a long way to go?
 

deltacamelately

Professional
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
134
Likes
6
This was going in for quite sometimes and though all the other ranks were rewarded with pay revisions, the Lt. Cols were just told to wait. Good that the waiting has finally come to its end. The army will gain substantially as far as the age profile of battle commanders is concerned.
 

Auberon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
275
Likes
5
That's ok but my point was regarding unification of processes in to "paperless". IAF has become complete paperless in terms of inventory management. But I don't think IA has achieved that level.

IAF uses AFNET it's network is completely isolated I don't think IA has achieved that level quite a long way to go?
I cannot say, as I have nil knowledge wrt IAF.
Inventory management in the army does happen on computers too, but becoming "completely paperless" is neither a goal nor feasable.

Isolation, AWAN was in collaboration with TCS and SSBN with BSNL IIRC, ASCON and Satellite communication networks are independent.

WRT the article -

Communication infrastructure that can keep the troops talking and moving is the key to victory.
We all know of F-INSAS, the army is aware of the need for expansion of the current level of communication and the moderinsation plans are in progress, but its more complex than it seems for a force the size of the Indian Army , so don't expect anything overnight.

Defence forces today face difficulties that jeopardise military operations due to the vast amount of voice, data and video that must be transported and shared, to give troops a complete picture of any particular battle.
Thats why since the 2000's IA has developed and is deveolping AREN, ASCOM, Troposcater and SATCOM communication systems.

On the night of November 26, 2008, ten heavily armed terrorists reached Mumbai's shores and carried out coordinated attacks in India's financial capital, leaving nearly 200 people dead, stunning the nation, and spurring the country to further spruce up its defence infrastructure.

Although India has emerged as a Civilian IT power, this power is yet to be fully exploited for national security and defence.
IMHO we very much have the capability of SIGINT, COMINT and IMINT, MI doesnt just sit on its arse doing nothing. Granted, there is scope for improvement of course but it is as far as the 13 Dec. attacks and even Kargil war are concerned, the problem lay in the inefficient linking of the data gathering and analysis and acting upon it in the real world. The problem lies with Intelligence, it was not a SIGCOM blunder, it was an INTEL failure.

In the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks, India has realised the importance of communication infrastructure as an integral component of military strength.
It is incorrect to say that the realisation has come due to aftermath of Mumbai terror attacks, the need for modernisation in the technical areas of signals and comm was felt as back as in 67 when the MCTE was established, and they have been continuously expanding.

India now has the opportunity to look to other countries, facing similar challenges, for insight into improving its military infrastructure.
Being done, Signals officers don't go abroad for research and training just to enjoy the change of atmosphere like beaurocrats, they go there for a reason.

Every military faces the painful reality that it is cheaper, easier and faster to bring down an army's communication network than it is to fight it.

"An army that cannot talk cannot move. An army that cannot move cannot fight."
True, and it goes both ways, but the effectiveness of our Counter-Commint ops would be quite difficult to access before an actual war, though it does seem China has an edge over us in this.

Secondly, this is precisely the reason why we cannot solely depend on technology and network centricity, technology can be brought down, the more dependence on tech, more chance there is of failing miserably when the support system is brought crashing down, conventional skills still reign supreme as of now.

Own your networks
Done and being expanded

Network-Centric Warfare
Implementing NCW
It is the Indian Army's goal to make IA a Network Enabled Force by 2012 and Network Centric Force by 2017 (and IA is in habit of achieving its goals within time, not like DRDO).
 

pyromaniac

Founding Member
Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
535
Likes
16
Indian Army Enhances Surveillance Across Kashmir Ceasefire Line

With two major infiltration bids along the Line of Control in the last month, Army today said it had "redeployed" its troops and increased surveillance capabilities to prevent the terrorists' from crossing over into India.

"The Indian Army has done redeployment (of troops to counter infiltration)...We have built in additional surveillance capabilties to look across LoC... We have deployed more technical equipment for surveillance even at most difficult places keeping the LoC under active patrolling and surveillance at all the times," Army Vice Chief Noble Thamburaj told reporters here.

On the major infiltration bids by terrorists, he said, "In the last fortnight or month, there have been two major infiltration bids, which were partly successful but we in our second tier were able to neutralise most of them." The Army Vice Chief said the region may witness a "defining moment" as Pakistan Army has started major operations against the Taliban militants.



Indian Army Enhances Surveillance Across Kashmir Ceasefire Line | India Defence

MEANWHILE

India re-deploys troops along LoC as Pakistan removes its own

Just two days after Indian Defence Minsiter AK Antony paid a day long visit to forward areas in occupied Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian army has claimed that it had redeployed its troops and increased surveillance capabilities along the LoC in Jammu and Kashmir to prevent the militants from crossing over into India.

As India redeploy its forces along the LoC, Pakistan has moved 6,000 troops from the Indian border for its battle with the Taliban, said reports denied by the ISPR.

The troops to be shifted had originally been on Pakistan’s western border but were sent to the Indian border in December, after the attack in Mumbai the previous month, The New York Times said, citing a Pakistani official who requested anonymity to discuss troop movements in advance.

“The Indian Army has done redeployment. We have built in additional surveillance capabilities to look across LoC. We have deployed more technical equipment for surveillance even at most difficult places keeping the LoC under active patrolling and surveillance at all the times,” Army Vice Chief Noble Thamburaj told reporters in New Delhi.

“In the last fortnight or month, there have been two major infiltration bids, which were partly successful but we in our second tier were able to neutralize most of the militants,” Thamburaj added.

The two brigades of the Pakistan army were brought in from Peshawar on Pakistan’s western border in the immediate aftermath of the Mumbai attacks last November when Islamabad had feared an Indian attack.

The troops, according to an intelligence assessment, are being used to reinforce the deployment in Swat and Buner where the Pakistani army has launched an operation against the advancing Taliban forces.

SOUTH ASIAN NEWS AGANCY (SANA) | India re-deploys troops along LoC as Pakistan removes its own
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
Auberon one question, you have any idea about TCS project (Tactical communication system)?
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
DEBKAfile - Israeli elite unit officers in big Indian anti-terror exercise

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

May 6, 2009, 1:59 PM (GMT+02:00)

India's biggest ever counter-terror exercise took place this week on the plains of Punjab near the Pakistan border. DEBKAfile's military sources disclose that the three-day maneuver ending May 5 was staged by massed mechanized and parachute units of the elite Kharga Corps trained by Israel military instructors in India and Israel in the arts of operating in areas fought over by Taliban and al Qaeda, possibly even with biological or radiological weapons.

Dubbed "Hindi Shakti" (Indian Power), the drill testing this crack army corps' proactive operational strategy, used tanks, combat vehicles – some developed in Israel for striking terrorist targets in open land, artillery guns and a large number of parachutists. These crack Indian units received specialist instruction from Israeli elite and commando forces in tactics for pursuing combat operations behind enemy lines.

DEBKAfile notes that the Indian counter-terror exercise ended 24 hours before US president Barack Obama headed summit of the Pakistani and Afghani presidents, Ali Zardari and Hamid Karzai, at the White House on their combined strategies against the two terrorist organizations.

New Delhi's anti-terror exercise signaled the three leaders that, aside from the Americans, the only force capable of taking on Taliban and al Qaeda is India's elite army corps.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index....iew&id=40638&sectionid=4&issueid=104&Itemid=1

Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor on Wednesday referred to the just concluded Hind Shakti war exercise as 'another step in army's continued endeavour to fine tune its proactive strategy.' The major 72-hour training exercise concluded in the plains of Punjab today.

Hind Shakti is the Indian army's seventh major exercise since it unveiled its proactive Cold Start battle strategy in 2004.

The strategy envisages a series of lighting armored thrusts across the border without waiting for a full scale war mobilisation.

The army's premier strike corps, the Ambala based II Corps practiced offensive manoeuvres and a blitzkrieg-type armored incursion by Mechanised and Re-organised Plains Infantry Division, emphasising rapid penetration into enemy territory.

The Exercise included effective offensive support by air power and attack helicopters. Corps units were also tested for their ability to undertake and sustain operational manoeuvres against intensive electronic and information warfare.

The condensed exercise was conducted over three days and nights. 'Blue Land' troops achieved battlefield transparency gaining knowledge of enemy deployment through sustained and constant surveillance of the battle space.

They were constantly aided by satellite imagery, helicopter borne surveillance systems, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and ground-based surveillance resources such as Long Range Recce and observation system (LORROS), Battle field surveillance Radars (BFSRs) and Weapon Locating Radars (WLRs) apart from the human intelligence. With greater situational awareness achieved, the manoeuvres were performed through air craft borne, heliborne and ground troops.

During the course of the exercise, the operational efficiency of the most potent force of Indian Army was put to test in war like conditions. Army successfully validated the capability of the corps (also called 'Kharga Corps' for its emblem, Durga's sword) in network centric warfare, as also in a nuclear-biological-chemical warfare environment.

Lt Gen TK Sapru, GOC-in-C Western Command also witnessed the exercise.
 

Auberon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
275
Likes
5
Auberon one question, you have any idea about TCS project (Tactical communication system)?
TCS is a generalised term, all of them are tactical communication systems, even the old AREN [radio network] and AMSS [secure messaging] systems are TCS.

The project you are specifically referring to I believe is either AWAN , thats the project with TATA, the initial stages are complete and Zonal HQs have been secured, now the regional centres are being established based on OFC and UHF systems I think now they are about to start the linking of Bn HQs.

Or if you are referring to ASCON, then that is by and large complete and the Phase 4 of it is going on, this phase is focussed on filling up the voids that couldn't be filled during Phase 3 and linking up the remote areas.

In about 4 years they should both be complete along with SATCOM and the older networks would then be gradually focussed less on and these networks would be further inter-connected so that a sort of single, overnetwork comes aboard that ll have secure communication and network enabling right from platoon to Chief HQ level as and when required but with various different components so that one network going down doesnt bring about a collapse of the whole communication system. This process will take a further 5 years and a completely secure network centricity will be achieved by 2017.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
DEBKAfile - Israeli elite unit officers in big Indian anti-terror exercise

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

May 6, 2009, 1:59 PM (GMT+02:00)

India's biggest ever counter-terror exercise took place this week on the plains of Punjab near the Pakistan border. DEBKAfile's military sources disclose that the three-day maneuver ending May 5 was staged by massed mechanized and parachute units of the elite Kharga Corps trained by Israel military instructors in India and Israel in the arts of operating in areas fought over by Taliban and al Qaeda, possibly even with biological or radiological weapons.

Dubbed "Hindi Shakti" (Indian Power), the drill testing this crack army corps' proactive operational strategy, used tanks, combat vehicles – some developed in Israel for striking terrorist targets in open land, artillery guns and a large number of parachutists. These crack Indian units received specialist instruction from Israeli elite and commando forces in tactics for pursuing combat operations behind enemy lines.

DEBKAfile notes that the Indian counter-terror exercise ended 24 hours before US president Barack Obama headed summit of the Pakistani and Afghani presidents, Ali Zardari and Hamid Karzai, at the White House on their combined strategies against the two terrorist organizations.

New Delhi's anti-terror exercise signaled the three leaders that, aside from the Americans, the only force capable of taking on Taliban and al Qaeda is India's elite army corps.
Niteshji : DEBKA is not a reliable source.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
Niteshji : DEBKA is not a reliable source.
Yes I know that but see the lines written it has been shown like our troops are learning now only learning to operate behind enemy lines:2guns:
 

deltacamelately

Professional
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
134
Likes
6
I an sure it will. Now remind me again, what is the next rank after Major:Laie_22:
Dear Dave,
If at all you extend a helping hand, I might look ahead to be a Lieutenant Colonel with your army.:tank:
Heh :D It ll be good to see Major DCL officially confirmed as a thick-skinned alcohol guzzling dinosaur!
...Sheesh...
I wish you had been a bit more precise and respectful to that specie on the otherplace...:wink::p:D
Call it single grain scotch.:sharabi:
 

Auberon

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
275
Likes
5
...Sheesh...
I wish you had been a bit more precise and respectful to that specie on the otherplace...:wink::p:D
Call it single grain scotch.:sharabi:
Sir I called the elder dinosaur ( as you are the younger dinosaur now) a beaver army transvetite club visiting shoe shopping man, doesnt get any more respectful than that without getting banished :D
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
This doesn't by any chance have anything to do with the shortage of officers does it?
People were getting command of a battalion well on the wrong side of 40 years of age and hence were rather old to be as physically fit as the strapping lads in all ranks and one has to lead by example. The Infantry being in the High Altitude, Mountains etc required a high degree of physical fitness in all ranks including the CO. I got my command when I was 42 years of age and my battalion was inducted in an operation in the High Altitude!

As far as Colonel being at 15 years of service, it is because there was a disparity in equivalent seniority with the bureaucrats, wherein a young chap with hardly any service who was a District Magistrate could overrule a 20 year plus army officer when working in tandem with the district administration in, let us say, aid to civil power. This created working problems.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
commando training is not easy

Commando training too tough for cops- Hindustan Times

Recognising that being a good commando was all about great physical and mental endurance, the state chose 257 policemen that seemed most likely to fit the bill.

But that plan has been thrown completely out of gear with the withdrawal of over 100 recruits because the programme, being conducted at the Goregaon reserve police training facility since March, is too tough.
 

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
information about the encounter where we lost our brave SF, salute to them

Headlines Today: Refreshingly Different News from India, World, Business, Cricket and Bollywood


But unknown to the army, the terrorists were watching the entire helidrop operations. The brave major and his team were hunting the terrorists. The terrorists had the advantage of height. They were well hidden behind rocks. Suddenly the hunter was the hunted. The brave major and his team are learnt to have put up a fierce firefight. But the terrorists had the advantage of height, element of surprise and cover.
The next morning over a dozen army teams fanned out. They hunted the terrorists, killing 25 in all, over the next 10 days. Six terrorists were killed in an avalanche but so were eight soldiers.

The recoveries were huge - 13,000 rounds of AK ammunition, one RPG, 25 AK-47 rifles, hundreds of grenades, 32 kgs of explosives. The terrorists were extremely 'well-kitted' and trained to fight and survive in high altitudes. Multi-layered high altitude clothing, snow boots, detailed six grid maps, GPS, satellite phones, radio sets...the works. All pointing towards the direct involvement of the Pakistani security forces.
It is a war out there. It will only get worse as the snow melts. For the army it is hunting season. But the hunter must not become the hunted. EVER!
 

dave lukins

Professional
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
153
Likes
3
Let us all Salute the Good Major Sharma and his men for laying down their lives for the safety of his Country::india:

I did notice the remark of tightening up security on the LoC. Is there enough men and equipment to do such an operation? Was it ever found out the destination of these terrorist? The other remark that caught my eye was "better trained" ..surely Maj.Sharma and his men were at the top of their game, that is why they were SF. You cannot get better than SF in fitness and training. Ambushes and the element of surprise was with the miscreants that day, so there is a lesson there. Reverse that tactic next time and let no brigands escape.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top