Indian Army Aviation Wing

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Yusuf, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yes sir. That is why I propose low cost CAS aircraft and tactical air lift for the Army.
     
  2. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Just for information those who think the A-10 is an expensive buy, well if wiki is to be believed, costs lesser than the Apache. Though both have their roles in supporting army ops
     
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  3. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    A 10 is a good fighter. It can take a lot of damage and still fight back. But can the army maintain it along with the Apache?...That is the major question. The attack chopper deal has been canceled FYI. The army will need a seperate base to operate them. They need dedicated army air bases.
     
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  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Yes I am aware that the RFP for 22 helos has been cancelled. For all practical purpose to let the Apache get in as it did not participate the first time. Boeing has already come out to offer the Apache and will participate in the next tender that will come up shortly.

    I think it will be easier for the army to borrow runways than their fighters to do the dirty job
     
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  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Yes I am aware that the RFP for 22 helos has been cancelled. For all practical purpose to let the Apache get in as it did not participate the first time. Boeing has already come out to offer the Apache and will participate in the next tender that will come up shortly.

    I think it will be easier for the army to borrow runways than their fighters to do the dirty job
     
  6. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Yusuf...You still dont get the Logistical nightmare the Army will be facing, training pilots, recruiting them. Then we have the issue of spares. I say we go for an indigenous CAS aircraft. The IJT can be modified into one. Or the Super Tucano can also be used. But A 10 is a strict no no.
     
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  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I am not advocating the A-10. If any other ac is suitable for India so be it. I'm only trying to tell that a fixed wing a/c is required in addition to choppers.
    Indegenous or imported, logistics, training and pilots will be required all the same.
     
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  8. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think the US is the only country that uses the A 10. That is why the supply chain might be hampered.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Be it Cold Start or any other mode of conducting operations, there is no doubt that there has to be coordination amongst those operating on the battlefield.

    As the brain cannot operate independent of the feet if a person is to move in a set direction, neither can the components in the battlefield operate independent of each other. There has to be synchronisation and all must operate in concert to a set plan, of course, with inbuilt flexibility to respond to a particular situation.

    The classical air battle is to initially carry out counter air operations wherein it attempts to seize the mastery of the airspace over the total campaign space. It has to also carry out strategic tasks to degrade the enemy’s war machinery. This is a major input in any campaign. Hence, till this is achieved, the air force's complete attention and assets are diverted towards this end and very little air power is allotted for the ground operations.

    From the ground warfare perspective, the initial strike is where maximum gains can be achieved since the adversaries are yet to ‘find their feet’. Cold Start is a step in this direction. If the ground elements are to seize territory in the initial stages and put the enemy on the defensive, the strike must have power behind the punch. If, at this stage, there is not much of air power in support of the ground strike, it will be a diluted effort with diluted results. Once the enemy has stopped the assault and stabilised, it will then do a countervailing operation and try to regain lost ground and even seize some of its own.

    Thus, air power is essential in strength in the initial days to ensure that the ground operations are successful and of consequence.

    What are the air requirements of the ground forces?

    Close air support.
    Interdiction – so as to isolate the immediate battle area as also debilitate enemy’s armour, artillery and infantry reserve.
    Tactical airlift to switch forces to seize ‘windows of opportunity’.

    Who should provide this is a moot question. Ideally, it should be under a centralised command and which should have trained together as one during peace so that coordination and response is mutually compatible.
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Those who have been Forward Air Controllers or Ground Liaison Officers would agree that it is very difficult to guide supersonic aircraft on to ground targets for Close Air Support (CAS).

    This aspect is also critical when the forward lines of the adversaries (FLOT) is close to each other since it becomes difficult for the pilot to differentiate between the line of own troops and the enemy as the time to guide in the supersonic aircraft is very limited.

    Hence, a slower aircraft is ideal for CAS and more so, one with greater loiter capability that the supersonic 'fuel guzzlers'!
     
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  11. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ray Sir do you think Hawks can fill in this role?
     
  12. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ray sir...Will a Jet proppeled aircraft be suited or a prop driven?...The A 10 was really good..but I say we modify our IJT for a CAS role. What is your say in it?
     
  13. tito

    tito New Member

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    Isn't the Jaguar used for CAS?

    I feel that instead of creating a new Army Aviation Corps, it would be better instead to have the Airforce dedicate a part of its forces for CAS..

    btw, can anyone give an accurate commentary regarding the level of level of integration between the Airforce and the Army?
     
  14. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    No Jaguar is a DPSA...MiG 27 is used for CAS and with getting a Darin 2 upgrate it is also a DPSA now. It will soon be replaced by MRCA
     
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  15. tito

    tito New Member

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    One problem: if the enemy has Anti-Air units in its formations, who will carry out SEAD operations?
     
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  16. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    SEAD are the first air missions in the assault...The ARMs are usually used for it.
     
  17. tito

    tito New Member

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    hmm.. but generally for SEAD you need highly manouverable planes.. and CAS can't happen w/o SEAD.. so I doubt having a separate Army aviation corps is sensible
     
  18. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well SEAD will be carried out by the AF...the first strike will be on their air defence and C4I. The CAS will move in before the armoured thrust...CAS is mainly used for advancing troops and Armour. The biggest problems faced by CAS are MANPADs
     
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  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Since the Hawk has not be tried out in this role, it would be difficult to comment.

    All one say is that it should be slow to be guided to the target and also permit the pilot to recognise the target, rather than get only a fleeting glance, should be capable of carrying the requisite armament essential for ground attack and should have armour protection so as to not be brought down by ground fire at the first instance. It should have adequate capability for a prolonged loiter time.
     
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  20. tito

    tito New Member

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    well, it dosent need to stick around.. as long as it is in range of a laser guided air-ground missle
     

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