Indian Army Artillery

sandeepdg

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I think the Swedish Archer artillery system is the best self propelled gun being offered to IA. Other than that, the IA could also consider the ST Kinetics Primus self propelled artillery which is currently being used by the Singapore Armed forces.
 

bsn4u1985

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RPK

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PM may sign major guns deal during US visit

New Delhi: India is expected to initiate the process for a major government-to-government deal in artillery guns with the United States during the visit of prime minister Manmohan Singh later this month.

if it goes through, it will break the jinx of Bofors that has held back artillery modernisation since the mid-1980s.

According to military sources, work is under way for a foreign military sales deal with the US for the purchase of ultra-light howitzer guns, worth over $1 billion (Rs5,000 crore). A military source said the proposed deal "could be taken forward" during Singh's visit to the US.

If it goes through this will be the first major artillery gun purchase by India since the Bofors scandal, over kickbacks in the purchase of the artillery guns from Sweden, erupted into a political controversy.

Though the proposal is being termed "serious" by sources, many are not willing to commit if it will go through. Singapore Technologies, which had led the race for the contract, has been blacklisted after its name cropped up in a Central Bureau of Investigation probe into alleged corruption by former Ordnance Factory Board chairman Sudipto Ghosh.
However, pleading innocence, the Singapore firm is carrying out intense lobbying at various levels to get back the contract. Army sources are not willing to write off the Singapore firm from the contract.

The army is preparing detailed notes for a deal for the much-needed ultra-light howitzers. The proposal is for outright purchase of M777 towed artillery guns that have shown their capabilities in Afghanistan. It is in service with the US Marine Corps and army, besides the Canadian military.
 

Agantrope

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Who are in the contention for the Artillery supply to IA?

But i personally like to have STK which is one of the best piece
 

F-14

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i knew this was comming the M-777 25/155mm could also fire the excaliber round
 

sandeepdg

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The M-777 towed howitzers are fantastic piece of artillery and also the latest in the western stable, i wish it is chosen as the future towed artillery system for the IA.
 

ironman

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The M-777 towed howitzers are fantastic piece of artillery and also the latest in the western stable, i wish it is chosen as the future towed artillery system for the IA.
M-777 is an US upgraded version of LW-155 for its Marine corps. As for India it will be simply LW-155.
 

Rage

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i knew this was comming the M-777 25/155mm could also fire the excaliber round
If we're looking for a lightweight, easily maneuverable replacement for the 155 mm F-77 B or to augment its procurement which was cut short by the Bofors scandal, then the M777 155 (LW155) is an ideal towed replacement. It's about 9,800 pounds (41%) lighter than the commonly used M-198 and its GPS digitally-guided Excalibur round is not just deadly accurate, but will mitigate a lot of collateral damage ( a low circular error probable of about 5 m.) . Smaller gun crews, a sturdy titanium frame and a possible SELEX-produced digital fire control system called the 'DGMS' (that equipp Canadian M-777's) also offer some other advantages. The question is: will the US be willing to transfer such technology, given that there are only 2 other countries with access to the artillery, and that of the two, Canada has just 12 systems in place with a further 25 on order and Australia has upto 57 systems to be acquired for the Australian Army.

Access to the howitzer also doesn't necessarily entail access to the round. The M-777 can also fire all current rocket-assisted projectiles of NATO-standard 155mm calibre: high explosive (HE), smoke (HC, WP), dual purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM), family of scatterable mines (FASCAM), cannon launched guided projectiles (Copperhead), and illumination. Also, I think it is important to consider the system and the round itself in light of two things: i) the future sustainability of delivery; and ii) the fact that Raytheon suspended temporarily delivery of 155mm. Excalibur rounds in June due to complications with its Inertial Measurement Unit. As per the SU, "there was an inherent lack of design robustness in the qualified IMU configuration which resulted in a failure rate of approximately five percent." Apparently, they experienced high bias accelerometer shifts during gun launches at field trials, meaning that the accelerometer did not precisely measure the movement of shells after firing. However, "none of the rounds in theater", {deployed in Iraq since 2006}, "have had a problem".

If we get our hands on the system and the round, which seems unlikely, we will have made a major step-up: the Excalibur allows accurate range of fire at up to 40 km., almost doubling its effective radius to upto 5000 km^2 (as against conventional rounds of upto 24 km.) and achieving a range precision of .35% (assisted), .30% (unassisted) and a range accuracy of 200-50 meters CEP, with 20 km Met separation.

Anyway, here's a few videos comparing the 155 mm artillery the Indian Army has available to it rite now: the 155 mm Bofors FH-77B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xr4DjrR3iQ

And what the Swedish company is willing to offer next: the 155 mm Archer FH77BW L52:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leYCwU7B8jI

And the M-777 howitzer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XudMMtbzcko
 

Vladimir79

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Can someone explain to me why India has given up trying to develop a towed howitzer? It is not such a complicated task.
 

Rage

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Can someone explain to me why India has given up trying to develop a towed howitzer? It is not such a complicated task.

We've developed and indigenously manufactured the 105 mm Indian Field Gun (IFG) and its (not so) light version, the Light Field Gun (LFG) {that bears a resemblance to the BAE Systems' Land Systems 105 mm Light Gun and that was derived from the old L13 gun used on the Vickers FV433 Abbot self-propelled} and have successfully 'up-gunned' the Russian 130mm M46, which are in widespread use with the Army, to 155 mm/45 calibre barrel (about 450 species) in a package called the 'Metamorphosis' developed by the D.R.D.O with ordnance supplied by Soltam. But we've not been able to develop a completely indigenous 155 mm. towed artillery system from scratch, atleast to my knowledge. Nor is there any indication that the DRDO has ever worked on one.

They have worked on a digital ACCS called the 'Shakti' though for all artillery, designed to integrate with the overall C31 grid, that has reached the stage of maturity and is now in active deployment up to the regimental level. But we've been perfectly content so far to procure higher calibre systems from outside, often using the contracts to try and effect political leverage, but shooting ourselves in the foot in the process, like for instance when those 9 firms were blacklisted in the single RFI. Any contract for the purchase of 155mm artillery however, like the 8,000 crore RFP for towed howitzers, will include an indigenous component: in the previous case for instance, 400 howitzers bought outright and 1,100 manufactured indigenously.
 

Maverick007

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I waiting for the day these babus get over their freaking political vendetta based systems and finally order the guns,RFP and RFQ have no importance,I have been hearing about these guns and their trials since the Kargil war and I am get to see any indication of the gun even coming in the next 3-4 years.
 

sandeepdg

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M-777 is an US upgraded version of LW-155 for its Marine corps. As for India it will be simply LW-155.
You got your facts wrong mate ! LW-155 is actually a US Army/Marine Corps program for a new lightweight 155mm towed howitzer (that's why the LW155 nomenclature) whose contract was awarded to the Textron Marine and Land Research Systems based in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1997. The M777 will replace the M198 howitzers in US inventory since it is less than half its weight and performs better than M198. So in effect, it is a new towed howitzer system.

XM777 Lightweight 155mm howitzer (LW155)
 

bsn4u1985

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M777 howitzer

The M777 began as the Ultralight-weight Field Howitzer (UFH), developed by VSEL's armaments division in Barrow-in-Furness, United Kingdom. In 1999, VSEL was merged into the new BAE Systems RO Defence. This unit became part of BAE Systems Land Systems in 2004. Although developed by a British company, final assembly is in the USA. BAE System's original US partner was United Defense. However in 2005, BAE acquired United Defense and hence is responsible for design, construction and assembly (through its US-based Land and Armaments group). The M777 uses about 70% US built parts including the gun barrel manufactured at the Watervliet Arsenal.

The M777 is smaller and 42% lighter, at under 4,100 kg (9,000 lb), than the M198 it replaces. Most of the weight reduction is due to the use of titanium. The lighter weight and smaller size allows the M777 to be transported by USMC MV-22 Osprey, CH-47 helicopter or truck with ease, so that it can be moved in and out of the battlefield more quickly than the M198. The smaller size also improves storage and transport efficiency in military warehouses and Air/Naval Transport. The gun crew required is an Operational Minimum of 5, compared to a previous size of 9.[1]

The M777 uses a digital fire-control system similar to that found on self propelled howitzers such as the M109A6 Paladin to provide navigation, pointing and self-location, allowing it to be put into action more quickly than earlier towed and air-transported howitzers. The Canadian (CDN) M777 in conjunction with the traditional "glass and iron sights/mounts” also uses a digital fire control system called Digital Gun Management System (DGMS) produced by SELEX. This system has been proven on the British Army Artillery's L118 Light Gun over the past 3 to 4 years.

The M777 is also often combined with the new Excalibur GPS-guided munition, which allows accurate fire at a range of up to 40 km. This almost doubles the area covered by a single battery to about 5,000 km². Testing at the Yuma Proving Ground by the US Army placed 13 of 14 Excalibur rounds, fired from up to 24 km away, within 10 meters of their target,[2] suggesting a circular error probable of about 5 meters.

Caliber 155 mm
Carriage split trail
Rate of fire 2 RPM normal, 5 RPM max.
Effective range 24 km (15mi) with M109 ammunition,
30 km (18.6mi) with ERFB base-bleed,
40 km (25mi) with Excalibur

 

bengalraider

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Bring DENEL back!

The only way that we can give Indian artillery a jump start is to have guns that are at last partly developed in India I'm hoping that they get Denel back in the game , we need to make a lot of guns and the technology Denel is ready to give us as the BHIM and the CONDOR no one else will.
I just love this gun


BHIM with arjun chassis


A case study by DENEL where as an alternative to the ARJUN chassis they mounted the same gun on a T-71M1 chassis

specs

Entered service -
Crew 4 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 52 ~ 54 t
Length (gun forward) 12.4 m
Hull length ?
Width 4.7 m
Height 3.1 m
Armament
Main gun 155-mm
Barrel length 52 calibers
Machine guns 1 x 7.62-mm
Projectile weight ?
Maximum firing range 41 / 52 km
Maximum rate of fire 8 rpm
Elevation range - 5 to + 75 degrees
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 40 - 50 rounds
Machine guns ?
Mobility
Engine MTU 838 Ka-501 diesel
Engine power 1 400 hp
Maximum road speed 60 km/h
Range 450 km
Maneuverability
Gradient ?
Side slope ?
Vertical step 0.9 m
Trench 2.43 m
Fording 1.4 m
 

RPK

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India To Acquire Russian 130mm Guns

India To Acquire Russian 130mm Guns | India Defence Online

In a sudden turnaround of events, the Indian Army has taken a decision to acquire additional 130mm field guns from the surplus stock of former Soviet republics. This change in policy has been deliberated due to the urgent need to deploy additional artillery along the Sino-Indian border.

Senior Indian Army officials have revealed that they will have to compromise with the 130mm guns as the procurement of light 155mm guns is likely to be delayed due to delays in the defence procurement. The purchase of 155mm guns has been pending for almost a decade. Officials added that the 130mm field guns can be sourced economically and are suited to be deployed along the high altitude border areas.

Currently, the procurement process of ultra light 155mm caliber guns has been stalled since Singapore Technologies, one of the forerunners of the program, was alleged in a scam and blacklisted.

Due to the growing requirements of the Indian Army, a $4 billion artillery modernization programme was cleared which aims to induct roughly 2,814 guns of different types.

The modernization program includes the $1.6 billion project to buy 400 155mm/52-calibre towed artillery guns, which is to be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,180 howitzers. The contenders for the acquisition of 400 155mm/52-calibre towed artillery guns are BAE Systems, ST Kinetics of Singapore and Israeli Soltam. India will also acquire 155mm/52-calibre self-propelled tracked guns which is to be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,180 howitzers.

There will be an off-the-shelf purchase of 200 155mm/52-calibre mounted gun systems from overseas and will be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 614 such howitzers under transfer of technology. Another project was to acquire 140 air-mobile ultra-light howitzers (ULHs) for $580 million. This is being eagerly awaited since the Indian Army needs ULHs howitzers to ensure artillery can be deployed in remote inaccessible areas.

The new guns are intended to replace the six different calibres the artillery currently deploys. The Indian Army currently has the towed 130 mm M-46 field guns which are used for close support, general support and counter battery fire.

In the mid-90s, India procured about 400 numbers of Russian M-46s and the Field Artillery now has 720 numbers of M-46s. The Indian Army also uses the 105mm Indian Field Guns deployed in the mountainous regions besides the 75mm Pack Gun-Howitzer which remains unsatisfactory in its performance. There is also the 130mm Catapult self-propelled gun which equips only one regiment. Besides, India has the 122mm D-30 towed howitzer used for close support by multiple regiments deployed on the plains.

As for the Bofors 155mm FH-77B howitzer deployed for general support and counter-bombardment, they are successfully deployed along the north-eastern border areas of India. Unfortunately, the Bofors 155mm FH-77B deal got bogged down earlier by a major scandal and India was able to acquire less than one-fourth of the number of howitzers it needed.

The recent move to buy the 130mm field guns has come as an embarrassment since it is a departure from the decision in 1999 to replace all field guns with 155mm caliber guns over the years. Added to that is the fact that no new artillery gun has been inducted ever since the Bofors scam in the 1980s.
 

AJSINGH

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finnaly some new guns are ebing inducted.The last time IA inducted new guns was in 1987 .i hate these bloody politician who dont let armed forces mordenise and are rats when faced with some kind of external aggresion ( read construction of raod stopped after chinnese objections)

can anyone answer which is the best gun IA should induct and just brief imformation on it ? thanks in advance
 

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