Indian Army Artillery

[garg_bharat]

People forget that 130mm guns of Soviet origin are still very effective guns. Only issue is these are designed for plains. Bofors, Dhanush, M777, AThos, ATAGS are the guns for mountains.

Indian 105mm guns are also quite good for mountains for troops in the open but fall short in destroying bunkers.

 

[Bleh]

People forget that 130mm guns of Soviet origin are still very effective guns. Only issue is these are designed for plains.

Aren't they all getting upgraded to 155mm? ..or only some?

 

[Kay]

Can you check and let the forum know how many Pack Mule regiments Indian Army still has.

There still places in India where 120mm Mortars and its ammunition is taken mule back. I still remember a 75/24 How being lugged by Pack animals:

Mules still carry mortar and ammunition - that is not being disputed. The mountain guns mules can carry (2.5 inch, 3 inch, 3.7 inch and 75 mm) are no longer in use.

 

[Hari Sud]

We talk a lot about 155 mm guns. We never discuss the issue of quality ammunition to feed these guns. There is a lot to a shell which leaves the barrel of a gun and destroys the enemy. It is complex admixture of electronic fuse, powder and the shell itself.

What effort is being made to make to make these items locally. I remember having read that electronic fuses are imported. I do not know about the powder and the shell itself.

Are we competently making these items at home. Only 18 months back ammunition made by our OFB exploded within the barrel resulting in its destruction. We do not want all that stupidity again, hence manufacturing techniques would have to altered to remove these defects.

 

[garg_bharat]

Are we competently making these items at home. Only 18 months back ammunition made by our OFB exploded within the barrel resulting in its destruction. We do not want all that stupidity again, hence manufacturing techniques would have to altered to remove these defects.

You will never drive a car if you are afraid of accidents.
We as a nation have to learn a lot in the matter of national security.

 

[garg_bharat]

Aren't they all getting upgraded to 155mm? ..or only some?

Public domain information says that upgrade was terminated at 200 pieces. However this upgrade does not change the basic characteristics; it is still for plains.

 

[Kay]

We talk a lot about 155 mm guns. We never discuss the issue of quality ammunition to feed these guns. There is a lot to a shell which leaves the barrel of a gun and destroys the enemy. It is complex admixture of electronic fuse, powder and the shell itself.

What effort is being made to make to make these items locally. I remember having read that electronic fuses are imported. I do not know about the powder and the shell itself.

Are we competently making these items at home. Only 18 months back ammunition made by our OFB exploded within the barrel resulting in its destruction. We do not want all that stupidity again, hence manufacturing techniques would have to altered to remove these defects.

Army suggested that such failure is not abnormal.
OFB makes the boat-tail type ammo completely indegeneously. The base-bleed type ammo may have imported parts.
But we need to invest in Ramjet type ammo which seems to be the future - South Korea and Norway are building such ammo.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ti...ell-and-it-could-be-a-game-changer?source=dam

 

[Armand2REP]

We talk a lot about 155 mm guns. We never discuss the issue of quality ammunition to feed these guns. There is a lot to a shell which leaves the barrel of a gun and destroys the enemy. It is complex admixture of electronic fuse, powder and the shell itself.

What effort is being made to make to make these items locally. I remember having read that electronic fuses are imported. I do not know about the powder and the shell itself.

Are we competently making these items at home. Only 18 months back ammunition made by our OFB exploded within the barrel resulting in its destruction. We do not want all that stupidity again, hence manufacturing techniques would have to altered to remove these defects.

As long as OFB exists you will never have a reliable supply of ammunition. Any organisation that cannot retool since the days of the Raj needs to be disbanded and send the contracts to the private sector.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Are we competently making these items at home. Only 18 months back ammunition made by our OFB exploded within the barrel resulting in its destruction. We do not want all that stupidity again, hence manufacturing techniques would have to altered to remove these defects.

How does one exploding ammunition out of 5000 rounds mean quality is bad?

What effort is being made to make to make these items locally. I remember having read that electronic fuses are imported. I do not know about the powder and the shell itself.

What are electronic fuses? Why are they used in artillery? Artillery shells explode on impact. There is no electronics involved.

Army suggested that such failure is not abnormal.
OFB makes the boat-tail type ammo completely indegeneously. The base-bleed type ammo may have imported parts.
But we need to invest in Ramjet type ammo which seems to be the future - South Korea and Norway are building such ammo.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/the-war-zone/21531/yes-this-is-a-ramjet-powered-artillery-shell-and-it-could-be-a-game-changer?source=dam

Making RAMJET artillery makes the artillery extremely expensive. It is better to use guided PINAKA.

 

[garg_bharat]

As long as OFB exists you will never have a reliable supply of ammunition. Any organisation that cannot retool since the days of the Raj needs to be disbanded and send the contracts to the private sector.

We are in Modi-raj. Significant money has been spent to upgrade OFBs.

 

[garg_bharat]

What are electronic fuses? Why are they used in artillery? Artillery shells explode on impact. There is no electronics involved.

I think these are proximity fuses. Better for destroying vehicles. Better fragmentation effect.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

I think these are proximity fuses. Better for destroying vehicles. Better fragmentation effect.

We don't use such proximity fuse in artillery shells. Artillery shells are not accurate to hit with pinpoint precision and only used as barrage fire. Our proximity fuses in Akash missile etc are all indigenous. So, no question of imports in proximity fuses either

 

[DivineHeretic]

We don't use such proximity fuse in artillery shells. Artillery shells are not accurate to hit with pinpoint precision and only used as barrage fire. Our proximity fuses in Akash missile etc are all indigenous. So, no question of imports in proximity fuses either

We use them all right, necessary for airburst effect on target. In fact it's been the preferred fuze over the past few weeks in denying battle space to the enemy.

If you don't know, it's better to ask people who do know, rather than making sweeping comments about stuff you have no idea about.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

We use them all right, necessary for airburst effect on target. In fact it's been the preferred fuze over the past few weeks in denying battle space to the enemy.

If you don't know, it's better to ask people who do know, rather than making sweeping comments about stuff you have no idea about.

That is called airburst fuze. That isn't proximity based but manually timed. This was used in early anti-aircraft guns too. They don't have electronics!

If you don't know, it's better to ask people who do know, rather than making sweeping comments about stuff you have no idea about.

This is applicable to you. Give me source that artillery shells have electronic fuse

 

[DivineHeretic]

That is called airburst fuze. That isn't proximity based but manually timed. This was used in early anti-aircraft guns too. They don't have electronics!


This is applicable to you. Give me source that artillery shells have electronic fuse

ECIL produced electronic fuze for artillery shells

http://jsprojects.co.in/Home/Business_Verticals/1/4

Zelar all purpose Multifunction fuze, produced by OFB. Developed by Bofors, Sweden

The FH-77A went into service with the totally new multifunction Zelar fuse for its ammunition. This
unprecedented fuse combines within one casing proximity and impact action with seven options: impact, long delay; impact, short delay; instantaneous, normal and high sensitivity proximity, low burst; proximity, high burst and proximity normal. One fuse has replaced five separate fuses that were formerly used by the Swedish Army.


All of them are electronic fuses. When some of us make claims, we have the evidence to back them up.

 

[Armand2REP]

We are in Modi-raj. Significant money has been spent to upgrade OFBs.

Oh really?

Defence Ministry to stop investing in ordnance factories, DPSUs
Nayanima Basu New Delhi | Updated on January 29, 2018 Published on January 29, 2018

A Stallion military truck in Vehicle Factory Jabalpur

Wants private players to introduce products, create additional capacity
In what could spell the death-knell for Ordnance Factory Boards (OFBs) and Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSUs), the Ministry of Defence has decided that it will not make any further investments in these establishments, while product introduction and creation of additional capacity will have to be undertaken by the private sector.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-ordnance-factories-dpsus/article22580014.ece

 

[garg_bharat]

Oh really?

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-ordnance-factories-dpsus/article22580014.ece

Any other quote except Hindu? Hindu has been running anti-Modi and anti-BJP stories for ages.

You think Dhanush is rolling out without investment?
Or Pinaka rockets are being made without investment?
Thousands of crores has been spent to update OFBs. Read OFB reports.

 

[Kay]

OFBS can never be replaced, but their nature and role will be changed gradually. This government accelerated many long due changes in OFB, namely removal of on-core items from OFBs product list, downsizing, etc.
Going forward, OFBs will act more like lead integrators with private players becoming OEMs.
Even when private players do all the manufacturing, the governance of projects and IP rights should be held by DRDO, OFBs and other PSUs.
Basic tooling for non-standard items should be done / retained by OFB so that it can act as our insurace policy.
OFB has to do the heavy lifting for prototype creation so that risk for private players is reduced, which ensures more private participation and investment.
So, OFB has to be less labour oriented and more involved in management activities in coming years.

 

[Bhadra]

ECIL produced electronic fuze for artillery shells

http://jsprojects.co.in/Home/Business_Verticals/1/4

Zelar all purpose Multifunction fuze, produced by OFB. Developed by Bofors, Sweden

The FH-77A went into service with the totally new multifunction Zelar fuse for its ammunition. This
unprecedented fuse combines within one casing proximity and impact action with seven options: impact, long delay; impact, short delay; instantaneous, normal and high sensitivity proximity, low burst; proximity, high burst and proximity normal. One fuse has replaced five separate fuses that were formerly used by the Swedish Army.


All of them are electronic fuses. When some of us make claims, we have the evidence to back them up.

155 mm SHELL HE M/77B

ROLE :
The 155 mm 77 B is a long range artillery ammunition designed to attack ground targets. The main characteristics are:-
a) Rapid and accurate firing at long ranges

b) Capable of firing various shells/propellant charges.

c) Superior mobility in both road and cross country. The 155 mm gun can be fired in the elevation of -3° to 70° and can be traversed 30° on either side. However the traverse of the gun is restricted beyond 50° elevation. Maximum muzzle velocity of gun is 0.827 km per second and the rate of fire is 3 rounds per 14 seconds.

FUNCTION :
When the gun is fired, the burning propellant charged rapidly generate gas pressure at the base of the shell and drives the shell through the barrel. The velocity varies depending upon the charge used.

Different types of fuzes can be used for the shell M/77 B viz. Zelar fuze. The Zelar fuze has 8 different setting modes. It is designed to meet the highest safety demands and has five different safety systems. If setting is for proximity circuit, the impact circuit is earthed.

PROXIMITY FUNCTION
i) Low sensitivity- Wet ground conditions
ii) High sensitivity Dry ground conditions
iii) Normal sensitivity Normal ground conditions
iv) Safe

IMPACT FUNCTIONS
v) Long delay Recochet Burst
vi) Short delay Penetration Burst
viii) Instantaneous Action High sensitivity. For example - Snow covered ground.
viii) Instantaneous Action Normal sensitivity
The Zelar fuze has a back up function, if the normal function fails, the fuze function as a super quick impact fuze.


SPECIFICATION/CHARACTERISTICS :
a) Mass of the shell with fuze 42.6 kgs
b) Mass of shell without fuze 41.7 kgs
c) Length of shell with fuze 825 mm
d) Length of shell without fuze 728 mm
e) Filling type, standard TNT
f) Filling mass 8.0 kgs
g) Compatible fuzes Zelar, PDM 572C1
h) Primer used Primer M 191A-2
i) Compatible charges Green bag (Zone 3-5)
White bag (Zone 4-7)
Charge 8, Charge 9
j) Muzzle velocity of shell at charge 5 for green bag 368 m/s
at charge7 for white bag 578 m/s
at charge 8 690 m/s
at charge 9 821 m/s
k) Range 500 m to 24 km
l) Maximum permissible chamber pressure 440 Mpa
m) Shelf life 15 years
n) Operating temp. -20°C to +60° C.
o) Storage temp. Mean temp. less than + 32°C
Min. temp. -40°C
Max. Temp. +55°C +1140 W/M² Solar radiation, equivalent to approx. +70°C

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/30.htm

 

[Bhadra]

ECIL produced electronic fuze for artillery shells

http://jsprojects.co.in/Home/Business_Verticals/1/4

Zelar all purpose Multifunction fuze, produced by OFB. Developed by Bofors, Sweden

The FH-77A went into service with the totally new multifunction Zelar fuse for its ammunition. This
unprecedented fuse combines within one casing proximity and impact action with seven options: impact, long delay; impact, short delay; instantaneous, normal and high sensitivity proximity, low burst; proximity, high burst and proximity normal. One fuse has replaced five separate fuses that were formerly used by the Swedish Army.


All of them are electronic fuses. When some of us make claims, we have the evidence to back them up.

I was able to find Zelar. However, the OFB site says it manufactures only one fuze for 155mm Howitzer by the nomenclature "Fuze PD M 572 for 155 mm" and its characteristics are different from Zelar.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/fz/10.htm