Indian Army Armored Vehicles

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Antimony, Aug 29, 2009.

  1. itsme

    itsme Regular Member

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    I bet we are going to license produde K2 black panther for our FRCV program.
     
  2. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Those things which are in front of us do not need any proof. Any discussion with respect to those are futile
    Defense or Security is a dynamic and fast moving reality. Technology in defense sector changes to keep pace with the requirement of that dynamics. An FRP issued in 2000 can not remain valid for 2019. The FRP issued in 2000 is meant for equipment to be made available by 2002 and not 2019.

    The DRDO, OFB and DPSU want as much required parameters permanency as the tenures of their service. That simply is not satisfactory.

    There must be an explicit clause in every RFI and RFP .... "This RFI / RFP is valid for six months only" so that if you can meet those requirement keep it or lump it. The DRDO, OFB and DPSU should not be able to beat you up with your RFP even after 20 years of its issue. Simple.
     
  3. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Very good and thoughtful post.
    IBGs being formed and will require their own integral support systems.
    Firstly, in my opinion Arjun can not meet requirements of swift and quick action groups.
    It would be primarily ether T-72 or T-90.
    Then IBG will require strong AD components and IA can not wait for OFB to make any system 20 years hence.
    IBGs will require their own aviation support elements .
    IBGs may also require their own dedicated tracked SP guns.
    IBGs will require their own target acquisition and control system

    You name it and IBGs require their own. They can not remain dependent of the resources of the formation which launches those IBGs.

    A big big market is opening up and DRDO / OFB will be left far behind. No one can wait for their mal..
     
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  4. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    One more thing can also happen ..
    The vehicle is given to the Army to be placed at Mahajan and other ranges for target practice .... booooom..

    Or the vehicle is placed at JNU to discourage students to join DRDO / OFB.
     
  5. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Kaveri did not work out. I think we are stuck with GE engines for quite some time.
    Arjun is also in the failed category as too much imported stuff in it.

    This BIHO looks good. Along with Akash missile system, will give protection from cruise missiles.
     
  6. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

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    Ah yes of course. Silly me. Forgot the fun bit.

    Now that I think about it, have we tried to refurbish any old T55s in storage, splash on some ERA and an upgrade package (gun, electronics, sights etc.) and try to pass them on at cheap to some cash strapped nation for a quick buck?
     
  7. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

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    Also to add to your point about the IBG market opening up, we can also see an increasing trend towards commanders at a tactical level being given more power to make purchases.
    IA top brass may have the patience to deal with DRDO, but field commanders sure as hell don't.
    I can definitely see more orders going to imports/private sector if this comes to pass. Though such purchases may be the less capital intensive kind.
     
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  8. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think T-55 modified with 105mm gun is a good tank. Should be kept in reserve.
     
  9. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    The level is not tactical but army commanders. At best you can call that "Operational" level. And Rs 500 crores is but peanuts for a force as large as Indian Army.

    This financial powers has been delegated to meet some urgent operational requirement which OFV / DRDO will not be able to fulfil in given time and space. All these measures are fallout of a deliberate delay / denial regime that DRDO is capable of inflicting on Indian Army. Can any one imagine how Indian Army was starved of its essential ammunition for tanks, A fighting platforms, AD weapons, and many more for more than ten years. That is how MoD and OFB poured cold water over Indian Army's cold war doctrine under St Antony.

    That ammunition scandal was nothing short of treason and an institution like CAG had to come heavilly on MoD to salvage the situation.

    MoD which exists exactly to deal with such situations miserably fails because they have stakes in DRDO and OFB. Those Babus are able to push through their dellatory and denial regime - "Na Banayenge Na Lene Denge".

    Pvt Industry is the only way out. That is what constitutes contribution to economy. OFB process is institutional monopoly and have negative economic consequences, loss to the GoI, and constitutes stale retrograde economic consequences.

    OFB and even DRDO processes are self denial rather than self sufficiency. Indianisation there means large imports of parts and sub assemblies rather than any "Make in India". There is no make in india. It is simply a race for "who will import - DRDO, OFB, MoD or the users" ? and thereby who will make the commission a la BEML in case of Tatra vehicles. Loot hai bhai loot hai !!
     
  10. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    ..............................................................
     
  11. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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  12. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

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    @Bhadra, the failure of Make in India (for defence as well commercial manufacturing) can only be blamed on us as Indians. The Govt. has done a great job pushing it but we as a people have only been willing to shout "make in India" from the rooftops without having the will to actually bear the costs of buying made in India.

    The real power of change is always in the hands of the intermediaries in any sales process, and two kinds of pressure can influence them. Top led or bottom push. In India the govt. is pushing but we Indians have a "sasta maal achha hai" attitude and are content to sticking to the less expensive Chinese manufactures or bangladeshi garments. Unless Indian consumers are willing to pay more for Indian made goods which will be initially more expensive and put pressure on intermediaries to sell indian made, Make in India is going nowhere.

    Also 'Made by India' is in my opinion far more important than 'Make in India'. Jobs are fine are a concern yes, but real progress will come when the profits stay at home rather than flowing out of the country.

    But I digress. I have derailed this thread enough.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  13. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

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    Though today it will suffice only in anti-infantry or ant-static emplacement role. Armor advancements have undoubtedly made its HEAT or APFSDS ammunition obsolete.
    All comes down to cost of preserving the T55s vs cost of maintaining other anti-infantry platforms I guess.
     
  14. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    OFB Aditya mine protected vechile.
     
  15. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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  16. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    India’s Infantry Combat Vehicles project may just die from apathy
     
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  17. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    It just is not the question of "Make in India" or "Made in India" but "what" we make in India ? Is that modern enough to "meet the present requirement" ? Is that cost effective and economical ? Does it contribute to economic development ?

    What is made in India will be dictated by the present requirements, technologies involved, infrastructure available or required. Anything which is easily available in international markets at economical prices if made in India does not solve any purpose except for increasing manufacturing in India.

    "Meeting requirements" is an important factor. What is the use of making INSAS that does not meet requirements ? What is use of making "frigate" in India that does not meet the requirements?

    Make is India as an economic activity to give an impetus to manufacturing sector is always a welcome step but that should not be a dead weight. Make is India for the sake of making is not an economic activity.

    Make in India must meet objectives of modernisation and technological upgrade.

    Assembling nowhere leads to make in India.
     
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  18. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Since FICV is dead Indian army will buy BMP - 3M ifv.
     
  19. Deathstar

    Deathstar Regular Member

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    How about the IFV developed by Singapore?
     
  20. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    FICV will be back, watch this space.
     
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