Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Jagdish58]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

This cannot be linked with politics at the moment ... Yes the present govt has not taken care of our forces and its interest but with what ever i have read IAF was not interested in HAL Tejas and had much more faith in the foreign aircrafts ...

Cancelling MMRCA will not help as some immediate replacements are required by the airforce... but yes they could have decreased the number and has increased the number of tejas mk 1 ordered.... that would have given them cost effectivity... although the MMRCA is in trouble as the new govt will form and due to uncontrolled and waste spending of present govt has left them with no great budget when they will come to power....

MMRCA will cost now 20 billion USD and there will be cost over run & life cycle cost upgradeing etc , does 4.5 generation aircraft required now seeing th threat perception??

We need 5th generation fighter IAF should concentrate on FGFA & AMCA rather than Rafale

to cover up the numbers they should induct LCA MK1 or MK2 or Mk+++++ what ever they call , we have Sukhoir 30 MKI & next in lin Super Sukhoi MKI which will be 4.5 generation type fighter with AESA

Mig-29 SMT & Mirage-2000 are upgraded to 4+ generation level

If still IAF wants numbers they should go for govt to govt sales for some 70 or 80 odd Mig-35 ( with thrust vectoring) and demand MIG to set-up a facility in india eiether a JV with private or public company

Because this will help in maintaining IAF Mig-29SMT , Navy Mig-29 K as well hence reducing the burden of over run & shortage of spares

Rafale is too expensive & its life cycle cost might even match or overshoot AMCA or FGFA if im not wrong

 

[laughingbuddha]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

What is the point in just covering up numbers if they are not tactically feasable? Do you buy 4 maruti 800s just because you have a 4 car garage even though you're loaded and use the expressway everyday to commute?

 

[ash2win]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

@p2prada you said upgrading M2K is more wise option than LCA.
But, M2K upgrade costs $43 million without weapons and LCA costs 40% less.
I understand we have logistics and maintenance in place but still $43 million don't makes sense.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

@p2prada you said upgrading M2K is more wise option than LCA.

Yes.

But, M2K upgrade costs $43 million without weapons and LCA costs 40% less.

No. LCA costs $5 Million more than what HAL says it costs because the cost of the engine isn't on it. So, the LCA Mk1 costs a little around $36 Million. But the LCA isn't as capable as M-2000 as it carries 6.5 tons of payload at greater distances, carries more weapons and has greater dash speeds to enter and exit combat zones.

I understand we have logistics and maintenance in place but still $43 million don't makes sense.

The cost of the upgrade is more than what it should have been had the decision for the upgrade been taken when the production lines were open. Mig-29UPG costs so low because the Russian are upgrading hundreds of their own Mig-29s and production is still ongoing. With M-2000 we weren't lucky. Still, with the major delays, even if we ordered more LCAs, we wouldn't get them in time because the upgrades are happening in parallel. Mig-29s will finish upgrades in two more years. M-2000 will take longer, but the upgrades will be done at the time when the first LCA Mk2 will be inducted. So, even if we order more LCAs we won't have the numbers necessary if we junk M-2000s. It's not like LCAs are being churned out in large numbers for replacing the M-2000s overnight.

Right now, LCAs are yet to replace 120 Mig-21s (this alone will go on until 2026). If we junk both Mig-29 and M-2000 today, that's around 112 more aircraft, at 16/year, we will have all the LCAs required only in 2032. That would be utterly foolish. If we junk only the M-2000s, even then it would be 2028. By then upgraded M-2000s will be nearing the end of their life anyway. And this is considering there is not a single year's worth of delay in LCA anymore which is impossible to expect. The above numbers are also considering that the Navy won't order LCAs at all. With Naval orders combined, we will replace M-2000s only in 2031. That's around the time when M-2000s will be phased out.

The only way we can retain squadron strength is by upgrading Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 while inducting all the new aircraft. Otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot again.

It is actually a very big deal that the LCA program has actually survived this long.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

@p2prada you said upgrading M2K is more wise option than LCA.
But, M2K upgrade costs $43 million without weapons and LCA costs 40% less.
I understand we have logistics and maintenance in place but still $43 million don't makes sense.

upgraded m2ks will be inferior on every count to tejas mk-2.
right from ASEA radar ,
lowest clean config RCS,
high TWR engines,
lower wing lading,
mind boggling range of air to air missile options,
newer airframe with higher residual life,
tejas mk-2 is twice as effective at almost half the cost!!!!!

The mirage -2000 (upgraded ofcourse) will have the same engine thrust from its 1990 days with a piss poor TWR ratio of 0.9(even lower than Tejas mk-1 0.97, mk-2 has 1.07) can be beaten to pulp by tejas mk-2 in any one on one engagement.

The award winning tejas mk-1 test pilot group captain Suresh Krishna has gone on record saying that tejas mk-1 right now is at least equal to the upgraded Mirage-2000.

And the talk of HAL not including engine price in tis total cost is not very convincing.Who is going to fit the engines in tejas mk-1 and get paid for the engine cost???

Other than french air to air weapons we have no other options on Mirage-2000, French are not top of the world in long range BVR missiles!!!!

In contrast tejas can have any russian , israeli or Astra with extended 120 Km range in mk-2 ,So no comparison here at all!!!!

Even the under development mini brahmos which will be added on naval Mig-29-K can find a place on tejas mk-2, but not on Mirage-2000!!!

It is a stupid BS to keep on repeating that tejas is mig-21 replacement!!!!

the GSQR specs of tejas were never intended it to be a mere Mig-21 replacement. It was meant to be a true multi role air force as well as naval fighter from the scratch, never believe the fools who unbundle those stupid pack of lies like tejas was a mere Mig-21 replacement.

If it is so , Is Group captain Suneet krishna who won best global test pilot a couple of yeears back was lying when he said that Tejas mk-1 right now is ,"at least "equal to Mirage-2000 upgraded

Fuel fraction of Tejas mk-2 too will be in the same range as that of upgraded Mirage-2000, So range with decent combat payload in arid indian skies will almost be same for both.

Because it doesn't meet requirements. IAF is currently accepting 40 Mk1s at reduced specs and will be used for training.

N-LCA Mk1 will also be inducted for the same purpose.

LCA Mk2 will come with almost all the original Mk1 specs, but with new gen avionics. Basically, performance-wise LCA Mk2 is what the IAF wanted originally since 1985.

Statement like the above are white lies.Only naval Tejas mk-1 is meant for training. the 40 tejas mk-1 for IAF are full fledged combat fighter with 28 deg AOA and high ITR along with 100 plus Km detection range radars and any air to air missile in IAF can be integrated on to it.

STR too will improve once flight envelope is fully opened in FOC in dec 2014.

IS IAF group catain Suneet krishna lying when he said tejas mk-1 is alleast equal to upgraded Mirage-2000?

The tejas mk-1 has ten percent more Thrust to Weight Ratio (TWR) than even the upgraded mirage-2000 if we compare it in half fuel, and a couple of WVRs in wing tip, in dog fight mode.

 

[laughingbuddha]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Boss, they must love you at HAL

 

[ash2win]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Yes.



No. LCA costs $5 Million more than what HAL says it costs because the cost of the engine isn't on it. So, the LCA Mk1 costs a little around $36 Million. But the LCA isn't as capable as M-2000 as it carries 6.5 tons of payload at greater distances, carries more weapons and has greater dash speeds to enter and exit combat zones.



The cost of the upgrade is more than what it should have been had the decision for the upgrade been taken when the production lines were open. Mig-29UPG costs so low because the Russian are upgrading hundreds of their own Mig-29s and production is still ongoing. With M-2000 we weren't lucky. Still, with the major delays, even if we ordered more LCAs, we wouldn't get them in time because the upgrades are happening in parallel. Mig-29s will finish upgrades in two more years. M-2000 will take longer, but the upgrades will be done at the time when the first LCA Mk2 will be inducted. So, even if we order more LCAs we won't have the numbers necessary if we junk M-2000s. It's not like LCAs are being churned out in large numbers for replacing the M-2000s overnight.

Right now, LCAs are yet to replace 120 Mig-21s (this alone will go on until 2026). If we junk both Mig-29 and M-2000 today, that's around 112 more aircraft, at 16/year, we will have all the LCAs required only in 2032. That would be utterly foolish. If we junk only the M-2000s, even then it would be 2028. By then upgraded M-2000s will be nearing the end of their life anyway. And this is considering there is not a single year's worth of delay in LCA anymore which is impossible to expect. The above numbers are also considering that the Navy won't order LCAs at all. With Naval orders combined, we will replace M-2000s only in 2031. That's around the time when M-2000s will be phased out.

The only way we can retain squadron strength is by upgrading Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 while inducting all the new aircraft. Otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot again.

It is actually a very big deal that the LCA program has actually survived this long.

I get your point .I understand the need of upgrade,I was smelling a scam on $43million a piece deal.

Off topic : navy needs around 140 multirole mudium lift helos (3 current tenders) with no domestic offering.why don't they scrap the current tenders and open a single one like #mmrca with TOT.

Also is there any chance of A400M into indian sky as C17 production line is closing?

 

[rusellviper89]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

I get your point .I understand the need of upgrade,I was smelling a scam on $43million a piece deal.

Off topic : navy needs around 140 multirole mudium lift helos (3 current tenders) with no domestic offering.why don't they scrap the current tenders and open a single one like #mmrca with TOT.

Also is there any chance of A400M into indian sky as C17 production line is closing?

I would prefer AN 70 over A400M

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

I get your point .I understand the need of upgrade,I was smelling a scam on $43million a piece deal.

It is only in extremely extraordinary cases that you will find a scam in a govt to govt deal. The possibility of scams only exist in multinational tenders.

Off topic : navy needs around 140 multirole mudium lift helos (3 current tenders) with no domestic offering.why don't they scrap the current tenders and open a single one like #mmrca with TOT.

Helicopters tenders are mired in scandals now because of the VVIP tender. Let's see what really happens.

There are no domestic medium helicopters. The only indigenous helicopter we have is Dhruv and we have plenty of orders for it. HAL plans on making on with a foreign partner, the decision is still pending.

Also is there any chance of A400M into indian sky as C17 production line is closing?

A-400M isn't in the same class as the C-17. I don't know if IAF will ask for the A-400M.

A-400M is a 40 ton transport, C-17 is 70 tons, C-130J and IL-214 are 20 tons.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Yes.



No. LCA costs $5 Million more than what HAL says it costs because the cost of the engine isn't on it. So, the LCA Mk1 costs a little around $36 Million. But the LCA isn't as capable as M-2000 as it carries 6.5 tons of payload at greater distances, carries more weapons and has greater dash speeds to enter and exit combat zones.



The cost of the upgrade is more than what it should have been had the decision for the upgrade been taken when the production lines were open. Mig-29UPG costs so low because the Russian are upgrading hundreds of their own Mig-29s and production is still ongoing. With M-2000 we weren't lucky. Still, with the major delays, even if we ordered more LCAs, we wouldn't get them in time because the upgrades are happening in parallel. Mig-29s will finish upgrades in two more years. M-2000 will take longer, but the upgrades will be done at the time when the first LCA Mk2 will be inducted. So, even if we order more LCAs we won't have the numbers necessary if we junk M-2000s. It's not like LCAs are being churned out in large numbers for replacing the M-2000s overnight.

Right now, LCAs are yet to replace 120 Mig-21s (this alone will go on until 2026). If we junk both Mig-29 and M-2000 today, that's around 112 more aircraft, at 16/year, we will have all the LCAs required only in 2032. That would be utterly foolish. If we junk only the M-2000s, even then it would be 2028. By then upgraded M-2000s will be nearing the end of their life anyway. And this is considering there is not a single year's worth of delay in LCA anymore which is impossible to expect. The above numbers are also considering that the Navy won't order LCAs at all. With Naval orders combined, we will replace M-2000s only in 2031. That's around the time when M-2000s will be phased out.

The only way we can retain squadron strength is by upgrading Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 while inducting all the new aircraft. Otherwise we are just shooting ourselves in the foot again.

It is actually a very big deal that the LCA program has actually survived this long.

This treatment has not been just with TEJAS MK1 but also with RUDRA Dhruv and LCH the Airforce has in the past also not trusted Indian made goods....
as per the production is concerned it can be increased if the order size is increased... HAL is ready to upgrade to increase production....

Cost of upgradation of MiG-21 Bison program is not of much worth and TEJAS was developed to replace these only so why are we upgrading it....

You are expecting MRCA 5th gen with Russia as well as TEJAS MK2 by 2017-2020 then why are we putting so much in these foreign aircrafts which will be delivered around the same period instead we can go ahead with Sukoi and few others induction and upgradation and invest a little more on our home made aircraft.....

as far as cost s concerned we can order 200 tejas instead of 126 foreign aircrafts and save around 13-15 billion dollars .... even the service and the maintenance of the tejas will cost lesser.....

and as per my information through www Tejas can deliver on expectations......

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Boss, they must love you at HAL

I support high intensity private sector participation in indian defence, with companies that are capable of absorbing the tech developed by ADA and DRDO.

But for that to happen IAf should give a 200 plus order for tejas mk-2 .

I don't know why companies like RIL which are ready to produce rafale in collab with Dassault would shy away from tejas if such high value order was given by IAF.

This 40+80 piece meal order by IAF for tejas ,

and 120 lot order for Arjun mk-1 by IA is really scuttling meaningful indian private sector participation in defence production.

In fact what the country urgently needs now is another private sector production line for tejas.

Relying on HAL to do everything from ALH, Tejas, SU-30 MKI,FGFA is not a wise decision.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

PSUs like HAL have been messing with the high ability products produced by DRDO by poor assembly ,parts and work culture....
They have the so called monopoly in the Indian Defense Sector ... Atleast few more players must be present in this industry...
Private companies will only participate with the stakes are high....
Regarding RIL Rafale was ready to invest in setting up of the assembly lines etc where as HAL being govt oriented will have a bulk of formalities delays issues alot of paper work .... funds issue and no security ...so they are little shy towards it....

I support high intensity private sector participation in indian defence, with companies that are capable of absorbing the tech developed by ADA and DRDO.

But for that to happen IAf should give a 200 plus order for tejas mk-2 .

I don't know why companies like RIL which are ready to produce rafale in collab with Dassault would shy away from tejas if such high value order was given by IAF.

This 40+80 piece meal order by IAF for tejas ,

and 120 lot order for Arjun mk-1 by IA is really scuttling meaningful indian private sector participation in defence production.

In fact what the country urgently needs now is another private sector production line for tejas.

Relying on HAL to do everything from ALH, Tejas, SU-30 MKI,FGFA is not a wise decision.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

This treatment has not been just with TEJAS MK1 but also with RUDRA Dhruv and LCH the Airforce has in the past also not trusted Indian made goods....

Nothing like that has ever happened. If an indigenous product meets requirement it has always been inducted. If something doesn't meet requirements, then it is rejected. This is true for every major armed forces in the world.

as per the production is concerned it can be increased if the order size is increased... HAL is ready to upgrade to increase production....

Production doesn't increase meaninglessly. Orders have to double or triple the first time if production is to be increased. Getting to 16/year itself is a big deal when only 48 have been ordered to date.

Cost of upgradation of MiG-21 Bison program is not of much worth and TEJAS was developed to replace these only so why are we upgrading it....

Nobody is upgrading Mig-21s. They will be phased out starting this year. The oldest batch is already out. Read my posts carefully. I was talking about the Mig-29, it is a completely different aircraft.

You are expecting MRCA 5th gen with Russia as well as TEJAS MK2 by 2017-2020 then why are we putting so much in these foreign aircrafts which will be delivered around the same period instead we can go ahead with Sukoi and few others induction and upgradation and invest a little more on our home made aircraft.....

What you say is what we are already doing. We are buying Rafale, LCA, MKI and FGFA. We are upgrading Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar. We are phasing out Mig-21 and Mig-27. And we are starting a new development for AMCA. We are investing in everything.

as far as cost s concerned we can order 200 tejas instead of 126 foreign aircrafts and save around 13-15 billion dollars .... even the service and the maintenance of the tejas will cost lesser.....

We are not worried about cost like you are assuming we are. Like I said, western countries are, so let them worry about it. If Rafale costs $150 Million each, IAF will buy it, if FGFA costs $200 Million each, IAF will still buy it. Nobody here gives two hoots about costs because our adversary is not as worried either. It's called an arms race. When the west talk about costs, they do so because they are not in an arms race with anybody.

Arms race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the IAF squadrons come at a premium. They have a 42 car garage, so they can't buy 43 cars. So, they have to choose the best they can depending on the money available, which is currently not a major problem. It is not about which aircraft is cheaper, it is about which aircraft is more capable. Due to the delivery schedule and the operational capabilities of current aircraft, the IAF has no other option but to go for a minimum number of LCAs and that's what they have done.

Western countries and even countries like Korea had to reduce orders just to compensate for increased cost of the F-35, they couldn't cross the govt approved limit. In India, when it was known that the MRCA aircraft will cost much more than the $10.5 Billion limit the govt had placed, the govt simply removed the limit. Do you see the difference? We are not buying aircraft based on cost, but we are buying aircraft based on capabilities. And the armed forces have been given a more flexible budget to get the numbers required.

If costs mattered, then LCA will be the first to go. Like I already said, what MKI and Rafale can do LCA cannot, but MKI and Rafale can do everything the LCA can. When you put that in a cost vs capability graph, LCA will get booted out in a second.

and as per my information through www Tejas can deliver on expectations......

Lol. They have been delivering since 1999.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

It may not be compare to cutting edge of 21st century fighter such as F-22, PAK-FA ( Under Developing stages ), F-35 ( Under Developing stages ) ..

But its sits perfectly into ' Indian ' need, That is to have a small low cost stealthy, With high sortie ability single engine fighter for Local CAS and Point defense roles ..

MK1 of Tejas are most modern fighter in Present IAF fleet in terms of Avionics and composite airframe so does stealth coating etc ..

Its capability of making number of sorties outruns any twin engine fighter in which MKI falls so does Rafale and Eurojet except Gripen

=============================

Problems cannot be solved by running away, But sorting them out face on ..

PSU have issues, We cannot take a leap in Pvt sector unless we tame PSU, taming Pvt corps are way more complicated ..

.

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Nothing like that has ever happened. If an indigenous product meets requirement it has always been inducted. If something doesn't meet requirements, then it is rejected. This is true for every major armed forces in the world.

[/QUOTE]
are you saying Tejas MK1 Doesnot meet the requirements stated by IAF initially?[/QUOTE]

Production doesn't increase meaninglessly. Orders have to double or triple the first time if production is to be increased. Getting to 16/year itself is a big deal when only 48 have been ordered to date.

Same sir I said the same thing production can be increased with the increase in order....

Nobody is upgrading Mig-21s. They will be phased out starting this year. The oldest batch is already out. Read my posts carefully. I was talking about the Mig-29, it is a completely different aircraft.
[/QUOTE]
My info is it will be in service til 2019 in upgraded form .... I might be wrong that they are still getting upgraded but i read some where ... just a related post in MiG-21bis likely to serve IAF until 2019 - The Hindu [/QUOTE]

What you say is what we are already doing. We are buying Rafale, LCA, MKI and FGFA. We are upgrading Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar. We are phasing out Mig-21 and Mig-27. And we are starting a new development for AMCA. We are investing in everything.
[/QUOTE]
Investing in everything can sometimes be dangerous .... why query is why have we not increased the number of Tejas MK1 and have gone for 126 which will cost more than 20 billions we could have utilised it in a better manner again refering to an article Defence News - Affordable Air Power [/QUOTE]

We are not worried about cost like you are assuming we are. Like I said, western countries are, so let them worry about it. If Rafale costs $150 Million each, IAF will buy it, if FGFA costs $200 Million each, IAF will still buy it. Nobody here gives two hoots about costs because our adversary is not as worried either. It's called an arms race. When the west talk about costs, they do so because they are not in an arms race with anybody.

Arms race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[/QUOTE]
its not true even we are looking for an affordable option.... With this are you trying to imply that even if we have to pay 30-35 billions for the same number of rafales we should go for it..... initial bid from 10.5 billion has doubled already due to delays by our gr8 govt....(rectify if i have stated any thinh wrong...)
[/QUOTE]

In the IAF squadrons come at a premium. They have a 42 car garage, so they can't buy 43 cars. So, they have to choose the best they can depending on the money available, which is currently not a major problem. It is not about which aircraft is cheaper, it is about which aircraft is more capable. Due to the delivery schedule and the operational capabilities of current aircraft, the IAF has no other option but to go for a minimum number of LCAs and that's what they have done.

Western countries and even countries like Korea had to reduce orders just to compensate for increased cost of the F-35, they couldn't cross the govt approved limit. In India, when it was known that the MRCA aircraft will cost much more than the $10.5 Billion limit the govt had placed, the govt simply removed the limit. Do you see the difference? We are not buying aircraft based on cost, but we are buying aircraft based on capabilities. And the armed forces have been given a more flexible budget to get the numbers required.

If costs mattered, then LCA will be the first to go. Like I already said, what MKI and Rafale can do LCA cannot, but MKI and Rafale can do everything the LCA can. When you put that in a cost vs capability graph, LCA will get booted out in a second.
True they are better than Tejas and expensive and costly to maintain ..... we can order all these but cant we just reduce the number and support tejas a bit more..... It will not bring any harm..... by the time these all will get inducted most of the present aircrafts will be retired so just to have tactical advantage of having greater number why cant we order more Tejas MK1 and later on MK2 convert order to mk2


Lol. They have been delivering since 1999.[/QUOTE]
Arjun dhruv rudra hve also been developed from DRDO .... will not be that rigid towards them limited money and resources no foreign help due to sanctions(thnx due to that only we took up this impossible task) we achieved alot...

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

It may not be compare to cutting edge of 21st century fighter such as F-22, PAK-FA ( Under Developing stages ), F-35 ( Under Developing stages ) ..

But its sits perfectly into ' Indian ' need, That is to have a small low cost stealthy, With high sortie ability single engine fighter for Local CAS and Point defense roles ..

MK1 of Tejas are most modern fighter in Present IAF fleet in terms of Avionics and composite airframe so does stealth coating etc ..

Its capability of making number of sorties outruns any twin engine fighter in which MKI falls so does Rafale and Eurojet except Gripen

=============================

Problems cannot be solved by running away, But sorting them out face on ..

PSU have issues, We cannot take a leap in Pvt sector unless we tame PSU, taming Pvt corps are way more complicated ..

Is it just the PSU or even the IAF who are running away from solving these issues ... IAF does not want to get into improving PSUs or what?

 

[ersakthivel]

If we fight armsrace by buying 150 million dollar 4.5th gen rafale for countering the much cheaper 5th gen stealth J-31s and J-20s we will be losing the race.

RAFALE cost is due to the limited production numbers and high living costs of Europe , SO we can not blindly equate the high cost of rafale vis a vis tejas mk-2 to automatically mean higher capability in every sphere.

We are upgrading Mirage-2000s for 43 million dollar per plane which will still be below even tejas mk-1 in air to air roles according to test pilot group captain Suneet krishna.

tejas mk-1 costs way below mirage-2000 upgradation costs, it has helmet mounted sighting and targeting system along with deadly R-73 close combat misslie combo. Even after upgradation Mirage-2000 wont have them!!!In fact even RAFALE does not have this deadly combo and relies exclusively on infra red missiles for close combat.

SO we don't have to blindly equate the cheaper cost of tejas to cheaper capacities.

many ghost stories were floated on tejas like

it can not go beyond mach 1.4,

its AOA is limited to 20 deg,

it is limited to 6Gs,

it can not fly on its own without ground based instrumentation back up,

its breaks won't work,

it is a three legged cheetah

by retired air force personnels and import lobbyists,which were all proved to be a lie in the end.

Still not to be left behind critics of tejas once again float the lie that it was a simple cheap jurasic era mig-21 replacement!!!

 

[laughingbuddha]

As discussed in various fora, why not classify the tejas mk-I as lead in fighter/trainer and induct the mk-II as a tactical light combat aircraft in specific role?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Its work of good men that Tejas is now inducted into force & Read this news >>

IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

India's own fighter, the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), is playing a growing role in protecting Indian airspace. On December 20, when the Tejas was cleared for operational service in the Indian Air Force (IAF), Defence Minister AK Antony declared that 200 Tejas fighters would eventually enter combat service. Today, that figure quietly swelled to well above 300, with the government indicating that the IAF would have at least 14 Tejas squadrons.

Each IAF combat squadron has 21 fighter aircraft; 14 squadrons add up to 294 Tejas fighters. The 21 fighters include 16 frontline, single-seat fighters, 2 twin-seat trainers and 3 reserve aircraft to make up losses in war.

In a written statement tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday, February 10, Antony's deputy, Jitendra Singh stated, "The MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircrafts of the IAF have already been upgraded and currently equip 14 combat squadrons. These aircraft, however, are planned for being phased out over the next few years and will be replaced by the LCA."

So far, the IAF has committed to inducting just 6 Tejas squadrons --- 2 squadrons of the current Tejas Mark I, and 4 squadrons of the improved Tejas Mark II. In addition, the navy plans to buy some 40-50 Tejas for its future aircraft carriers.

Source : Broadsword: IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

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There are plans ahead, There will be more production line of Tejas in near future ..

Is it just the PSU or even the IAF who are running away from solving these issues ... IAF does not want to get into improving PSUs or what?

 

[Pulkit]

Re: Why is Indian Airforce is not accepting Tejas mk1 completely ?

Its work of good men that Tejas is now inducted into force & Read this news >>

IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs



Source : Broadsword: IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

======================
======================

There are plans ahead, There will be more production line of Tejas in near future ..

I might be wrong but this is what I have read 40 Tejas Mk1 and 80 Tejas MK2 will be inducted .... and with MRCA and pak fa/HAL in q will we be ever able to go upto 200.... ???? when we have already ordered 126 aircrafts .... then they will come and say we dont have money to maintain them all so no more orders develop new aircraft for 2040 when they will get retired and again go abroad and get a toy of there choice from foreign market....