Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[WolfPack86]

This RFI is tailored made for SU-57 fighter aircraft.

 

[F-14B]

Livefist (@livefist) Tweeted:
The IAF’s BAE-HAL Hawk jet trainers flying too at Exercise Gagan Shakti. The IAF is looking to weaponise them with @byMBDA Brimstones & ASRAAMs. https://t.co/5bpKDuKAZv Interesting development if you ask me

 

[patriots]

ex ganga..Sakti videos



https://mobile.twitter.com/writetake/status/985732755207077888?p=v

 

[V_Force]

Livefist (@livefist) Tweeted:
The IAF’s BAE-HAL Hawk jet trainers flying too at Exercise Gagan Shakti. The IAF is looking to weaponise them with @byMBDA Brimstones & ASRAAMs. https://t.co/5bpKDuKAZv Interesting development if you ask me

Its true, I saw 4 HAWK AJT of surya kiran team flying closely friday and saturday morning.

I live near wahga atari border in Amritsar, Punjab and pakis are pissing in their pants and having close eye on Ex Gagana Shakti using their Dassault Falcon 20E by flying the same over the Punjab region nearly 40 - 60 kms away from the international border.

 

[Tanmay]

ex ganga..Sakti videos



https://mobile.twitter.com/writetake/status/985732755207077888?p=v

Does the C130 (shown in tweet) usually have that long nose?

 

[WolfPack86]

188 guns will be made in India. Bharat Forge will be responding to the Indian MoD RFP next month proposing a technology partnership with BAE Systems and Israel’s IAI (for the radar) to offer the Bofors 40 Mk.4 gun. In pic ship mounted Bofors 40 Mk. 4

 

[Mikesingh]

Livefist (@livefist) Tweeted:
The IAF’s BAE-HAL Hawk jet trainers flying too at Exercise Gagan Shakti. The IAF is looking to weaponise them with @byMBDA Brimstones & ASRAAMs. https://t.co/5bpKDuKAZv Interesting development if you ask me

The Hawk-i is a good complement to add to fighter squadron strength in time of need! Ideal for air defence and CAPs.

 

[uoftotaku]

Does the C130 (shown in tweet) usually have that long nose?

IAF uses specially modified Herc's that are equipped with Terrain Following Radar and FLIR hence the long nose. Our Hercs are comparable (but not exact analogues) of the MC-130 Combat Spear version used by USAF for Special Ops insertion (same role IAF bought the Herc for) Besides this they have several other unique systems of Israeli origin including advanced jammers and navigations aids. This is also the reason why they are much more expensive than standard Hercs bought elsewhere.

 

[Chinmoy]

Does the C130 (shown in tweet) usually have that long nose?

No it doesn't... Have a look at this

Its just the angle of photograph which elongated it further.

 

[Sancho]

The Hawk-i is a good complement to add to fighter squadron strength in time of need! Ideal for air defence and CAPs.

How is a trainer ideal for air defence? Why do we need LCA or MMRCAs then?

Arming Hawks shows 2 things, once marketing for HAL and BAE that are proposing that version on the international market and secondly how desperate IAF must be for anything that flies, because they don't have the numbers to fight our enemies.

The fact that the Air Chief has to talk up the use of trainers in the exercise, while admitting that PAF was monitoring with state of the art AWACS shows how bad the situation is today.

 

[pankaj nema]

How is a trainer ideal for air defence? Why do we need LCA or MMRCAs then?

Arming Hawks shows 2 things, once marketing for HAL and BAE that are proposing that version on the international market and secondly how desperate IAF must be for anything that flies, because they don't have the numbers to fight our enemies.

The fact that the Air Chief has to talk up the use of trainers in the exercise, while admitting that PAF was monitoring with state of the art AWACS shows how bad the situation is today.

Why are you so Dense

The hawk Trainers are not going to be used for the Opening Attack

But after IAF has pounded a Sector and say that Pakis are Preparing for a Missile Attack or Preparing to Launch their MBRLs What is the Harm if we send 5 Hawks with TEN tons of Bombs to knock them out

Or if the Paki Military convoy or Ambulances are going somewhere ; just knock them out

Target of Opportunity ; that is what it is called

You know how much damage Ten tons of Bombs can do

A bomb is a Bomb ; whether it is dropped from Su 30 or Hawk trainer

 

[Sancho]

What is the Harm if we send 5 Hawks

The harm is losing 5 brave IAF pilots, because trainers are of no use against any modern air force and modern ground defences!

Trainers and light attack aircrafts can only be used in complete air superiority, or without the vulnerability of air defences => war against Taliban and IS.

But if the enemy has even basic man pads and some decent air defences, slow aircrafts with limited EW and self defence capabilities are big targets. We have seen that in Kargil and even now in Yemen , where even advanced fighters got shot down by SAMs.

And all that "after" their AWACS have picked up our fighters or trainers within our own airspace!

 

[pankaj nema]

The harm is losing 5 brave IAF pilots, because trainers are of no use against any modern air force and modern ground defences!

Trainers and light attack aircrafts can only be used in complete air superiority, or without the vulnerability of air defences => war against Taliban and IS.

But if the enemy has even basic man pads and some decent air defences, slow aircrafts with limited EW and self defence capabilities are big targets. We have seen that in Kargil and even now in Yemen , where even advanced fighters got shot down by SAMs.

And all that "after" their AWACS have picked up our fighters or trainers within our own airspace!

I am sure IAF understands the Concepts of MAN PADS much better than Both of us

They are Not foolish to send pilots on suicidal missions

Also we will be having satellite imagery and other Recon data

Before an attack is taken up

In a Joint AIr Land Campaign there will be Multiple Targets of Opportunity

We would be in a RACE against Time

We have to Hurt the Pakis as much as possible in Four days

Therefore we will need to throw everything at them

All these sorties were Not just Offensive ones

They must also be Practicing How to attack Pak Army columns which would be dug in and in a close battle with Indian Army so that Indian Army can move further ahead
or out flank the enemy

All Cold start maneuvers have been Joint Exercises with IAF

 

[Sancho]

I am sure IAF understands the Concepts of MAN PADS much better than Both of us

Of course they do, that's why since Kargil even our helicopters get credible counter measures and our fighters belong to the best when it comes to EW capability. But trainers doesn't come with that level of defence, since it's of no use in training pilots. The only reason why IAF is adding them to the exercises now, is simply being desperate for any aircraft. They know it's far from a good or even realistic solution, but they have no choice than to use whatever is available. That's the equivalent of using child soldiers in war times, when no trained soldiers and civilian men are available anymore, anybody has to fight.

The Air Chief has warned several times, that IAF can't fight a 2 front war, with the low number of fighters and having 6 sqds of jags, another 6 sqds limited LCAs is bad enough, now adding trainers to the list, just to have squad numbers on paper, is not going to defend the country, when we need LCA MK2, MMRCA and FGFA, let alone AWACS.

 

[pankaj nema]

Of course they do, that's why since Kargil even our helicopters get credible counter measures and our fighters belong to the best when it comes to EW capability. But trainers doesn't come with that level of defence, since it's of no use in training pilots. The only reason why IAF is adding them to the exercises now, is simply being desperate for any aircraft. They know it's far from a good or even realistic solution, but they have no choice than to use whatever is available. That's the equivalent of using child soldiers in war times, when no trained soldiers and civilian men are not available anymore, anybody has to fight.

The Air Chief has warned several times, that IAF can't fight a 2 front war, with the low number of fighters and having 6 sqds of jags, another 6 sqds limited LCAs is bad enough, now adding trainers to the list, just to have squad numbers on paper, is not going to defend the country, when we need LCA MK2, MMRCA and FGFA, let alone AWACS.

We should be happy that IAF has undertaken such a Complex
and Demanding exercise

This is as realistic as it comes

Now all the data will be analysed and put to good use

How would you Validate your concepts unless you have implemented them

May be they will Not use Hawks or may be they will in some other sectors or situations

I am sure under conditions of Air superiority and when the Dug in Enemy is Being pounded by Our Artilerry ; Hawks can be put to good use for bombing them in an imaginative and creative manner thereby saving time for the Army

Also if you remember how Russian Convoys were massacred recently by Helicopters

If we can similarly get a few Paki Colonels and Brigadiers
the Pak Army will simply Run away

 

[Mikesingh]

How is a trainer ideal for air defence? Why do we need LCA or MMRCAs then?

Arming Hawks shows 2 things, once marketing for HAL and BAE that are proposing that version on the international market and secondly how desperate IAF must be for anything that flies, because they don't have the numbers to fight our enemies.

The fact that the Air Chief has to talk up the use of trainers in the exercise, while admitting that PAF was monitoring with state of the art AWACS shows how bad the situation is today.

Are you aware that the IAF wants Brimstone & ASRAAM for its Hawk trainers, slinging six Brimstone and a pair of ASRAAMs on its over 120 Hawks? If as you say the Hawks can't be used in war, then why is the IAF wanting to arm them?

That's because there was a long felt need to stretch the Hawk fleet beyond its baseline training duties to potential war assets if and when hostilities break out.

HAL had taken up the indigenous role change development program last year to convert the jet trainer into a Combat-Ready platform. With the upgrade, Hawk-i is capable of delivering precision Munitions including Air to Ground and close combat weapons, self defence capabilities through Electronic Warfare systems, digital map generator and operational reliability through new Dual Hot stand-by Mission Computer Avionics architecture.

And these weaponized Hawks are being used in the ongoing Exercise Gagan Shakti very effectively.

So yes, the new Hawk-i ( i stands for India) are being weaponized. These Hawks would be ideal for Air Defense and CAPs (Combat Air Patrols).

By no means is the Hawk a fighter, but when you need to throw all of your assets up in the air, this is a great fit.

 

[AMCA]

The harm is losing 5 brave IAF pilots, because trainers are of no use against any modern air force and modern ground defences!

Trainers and light attack aircrafts can only be used in complete air superiority, or without the vulnerability of air defences => war against Taliban and IS.

But if the enemy has even basic man pads and some decent air defences, slow aircrafts with limited EW and self defence capabilities are big targets. We have seen that in Kargil and even now in Yemen , where even advanced fighters got shot down by SAMs.

And all that "after" their AWACS have picked up our fighters or trainers within our own airspace!

LOL. . . .who is saying that we going to use hawks for air defence or deep penetration strikes? I think we will use it for CAS as it has low operating cost and can generate more number of sorties.

 

[Sancho]

Are you aware that the IAF wants Brimstone & ASRAAM for its Hawk trainers, slinging six Brimstone and a pair of ASRAAMs on its over 120 Hawks? If as you say the Hawks can't be used in war, then why is the IAF wanting to arm them?

First of all, that's what MBDA the seller of those missiles says and they offered the same combo for Gripen E in the SE MMRCA too:

Secondly, Brimstone and Asraam doesn't improve the flight performance of Hawk trainers, or the self defence capability, only comprehensive upgrades of the EW and additional BVR missiles would help to an extend, but then again we could buy real fighters too.

And I already explained, that IAF is desperate for anything that can fly and fight in whatever way, that doesn't mean that arming trainers in a high threat environment is what they want, but it's what they are left with, when no new "real" fighters are coming in soon!

That's because there was a long felt need to stretch the Hawk fleet beyond its baseline training duties to potential war assets if and when hostilities break out.

Not at all, there was no request by IAF to arm them, HAL and BAE proposed an upgraded Hawk as a JV, that could include arms for any Hawk customer. So it's an industrial proposal, that IAF might take up as a future upgrade and because of the sorry state they are in.

 

[Sancho]

LOL. . . .who is saying that we going to use hawks for air defence or deep penetration strikes? I think we will use it for CAS as it has low operating cost and can generate more number of sorties.

Read the earlier post and you will see who said that they could be used for air defence, or why they would be vulnerable against any air or ground threat, since we are fighting in a high threat environment and not fighting Taliban or IS.

 

[Kalki_2018]

Not sure IAF will ever need to use Hawk for combat. But it is a good a capability for training and can be exported to countries that are fighting taliban and ISIS like militants.