Indian Air Force CH-47F Helicopter

WolfPack86

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India, US Airborne Operation from CH-47 Chinook Yudh Abhyas Exercise
 

WolfPack86

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India, US Airborne Operation from CH-47 Chinook Yudh Abhyas Exercise
 

WolfPack86

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Parrikar visits US facility that will build India's Chinook choppers

On Wednesday, wrapping up his three-day visit to the US, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar flew from Washington to Philadelphia to visit Boeing’s rotorcraft facility, where India’s Chinook helicopters will be built, starting next year. Business Standard visited the Philadelphia unit ahead of that visit.

Parrikar was taken to a former locomotive manufacturing plant, which Boeing has transformed into a state-of-the-art Chinook production line. An empty section is draped with an Indian tricolour and a poster that read: “India – Restarting the Alt(ernate) Line in 2017.”

India’s billion dollar contract for 15 Chinook CH-47F medium lift helicopters, signed on September 28, 2015, requires Boeing to deliver the first chopper in 36 months and the final one before 48 months -- in 2018 and 2019 respectively.
This will mark another shift in the Indian Air Force, which has traditionally used Soviet and Russian aircraft for medium and heavy airlift. Over the last five years, American C-130J Super Hercules and C-17 Globemaster III muscled into the fixed wing aircraft fleet. From 2018 onwards, Russian Mi-17 helicopters will be joined by that iconic American workhorse --- the CH-47F Chinook. Simultaneously, the IAF will induct 22 Apache AH-64E attack helicopters, which Boeing builds in Arizona.

Since 1962, when the Chinook first appeared on the Vietnam battlefield, its ungainly shape and tandem rotors have made it the world’s most recognizable combat helicopter. Fifty-four years and numerous versions later, the US Army has declared the Chinook will remain in service into the 2060s. By then, it would have been in active service for a century.

Yet, the CH-47F version of the Chinook that India is buying is a high-tech marvel, a world removed from the CH-47A of the 1960s. The CH-47F has an electronic brain called the Digital Flight Control System (DFICS) that precisely positions a hovering Chinook at the edge of a cliff, or above the roof of a mud hut, enabling soldiers or cargo to be discharged with unmatched precision.
Explains Leland Wight, a former Chinook pilot who is now a Boeing manager: “In the CH-47D, I would be hovering while a crewmember would look through a vent in the floor and call out directions: ‘back, three feet; left two feet’. In the CH-47F, the DFICS does it all. The pilot just presses a “beep switch” that shifts the helicopter in precise one-foot increments --- up, down, sideways. We hover with total precision.”

What most impressed Indian test pilots, say the Chinook veterans working for Boeing, was its ability to carry ten tonnes of cargo, or up to 50 troops. In a conventional helicopter, ten per cent of the power is wasted in driving the tail rotor, which prevents the helicopter from spinning. The Chinook is stabilized by two contra-rotating main rotors, so all the engine power translates into lift.

IAF pilots tell Business Standard that the Chinook’s best feature, given India’s high Himalayan border, is its superb high-altitude performance. Boeing pilots in Philadelphia recount flying a Chinook over the top of Mount McKinley in Alaska --- America’s highest mountain at 20,300 feet.

Its power allows the Chinook to air-transport a 155-millimetre howitzer, hanging from a sling under the helicopter. This lets tactical commanders move artillery guns to inaccessible areas, providing crucial fire support to troops in extreme altitudes.

Another thoughtful Chinook feature is the positioning of its rear rotors, 18 feet above the ground. That allows large trucks to drive up to the helicopter’s rear ramp, and load or unload while the rotor is spinning.
India’s billion-dollar order has generated about $300 million in offset liabilities for Boeing. To discharge these, Boeing is sourcing parts from three Indian private manufacturers. Dynamatic Technologies Ltd builds ramps and pylons for every Chinook being built today; Rossel Techsys fabricates wire harnesses and Tata Advanced Systems Ltd supplies crowns and tailcones.

Boeing executives say “Every Chinook unit that returns from Afghanistan or Iraq comes to us for “after action reviews”. We ask the pilots, the crew and maintenance crews what works well; what would they like changed, and what would you tell us to never, ever change. The one things that everyone praises is DFICS. They say they can do missions today that they would never have tried earlier.”
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-india-s-chinook-choppers-116090201212_1.html
 

SilentKiller

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hope i am not wrong but September 2015, contract was signed.
in 36 months delivery is to begin that means September 2018.
and in 48 months deliveries to be completed so that means September 2019.

As per latest tweet, it says March 2020, is there a delay of 6 months??
 

abingdonboy

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hope i am not wrong but September 2015, contract was signed.
in 36 months delivery is to begin that means September 2018.
and in 48 months deliveries to be completed so that means September 2019.

As per latest tweet, it says March 2020, is there a delay of 6 months??
I had the same thought but it's most likely because the first payment to Boeing wasn't made until around March 2016 so first deliveries won't commence until March 2019 (was meant to be Sept 2018).
 

WolfPack86

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Chinooks to be based in Chandigarh

The US-made Chinook heavy-lift helicopters being acquired by the IAF will be based at the Chandigarh Air Force Station, for which new facilities are being established.

India had signed a deal for 15 CH-47 Chinook helicopters, with an option for another four machines. These are expected to start arriving in 2018. “A certain number of Chinooks will be based in Chandigarh,” a senior IAF officer said. “Two hangars and a maintenance bay along with associated technical and logistics facilities are to be set up here for the purpose,” he said. The work is estimated to cost Rs 150 crore, sources said.

Chinooks, which have a payload capacity of around 10 tonnes will provide a much-needed fillip to the IAF vertical heavy-lift capability. This role was earlier being fulfilled by the Soviet-era Mi-26 helicopters, also based at Chandigarh.
— with Arun Ben Varghese and Rinku Villasra.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

itsme

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New pics of IAF Apache also released, they are in grey. That's so sad. Hopefully, the IA's ones are in the standard Apache colors.
 

Sancho

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More appropriate thread:

C17s can land in a very short dirt roads
So you admit, that it can't land vertically in mountain or hill areas. It is a fixed wing aircraft and needs much larger landing and take off area than any helicopter, therfore is no alternative to the MI 26.

The fact remains, that this is not possible in IAF with the Ch47 anymore:
 

Enquirer

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More appropriate thread:



So you admit, that it can't land vertically in mountain or hill areas. It is a fixed wing aircraft and needs much larger landing and take off area than any helicopter, therfore is no alternative to the MI 26.

The fact remains, that this is not possible in IAF with the Ch47 anymore:
You want me to testify that C17 cannot land vertically?? Isn't that obvious? Can you make your point without rigmarole?

Before plunking billions of dollars into capital purchases IAF would have determined what operational aspects are MOST important; and what looks sexy to fanboys that they don't need to waste their precious capital outlay on.

Mi26 is not being blown up by IAF. It'll serve it's life and retire.
The heavy lift of C17 and combat operational capability of Chinooks were what IAF sought.
Chinooks are capable of lifting around 10 tonnes while underslung. We have to hope that truck can survive outside without the onboard hospitality & peanuts. Or trucks will be dropped off few kms away by C17 and they can drive to their destinations (trucks come with engines & wheels!)
 
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Sancho

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You want me to testify that C17 cannot land vertically?? Isn't that obvious?
Well if that's obvious, you shouldn't have problems with admitting that the Ch47 can't do the same and that IAF loses that capability now. No point in bringing up the C17.

Before plunking billions of dollars into capital purchases IAF would have determined what operational aspects are MOST important; and what looks sexy to fanboys that they don't need to waste their precious capital outlay on.
Of course, that's why most of the capabilities CH47 fanboys advertise by looking at it's operations in US/NATO forces hardly has any value for IAF. IAF has different operational needs and different operational environments, than most western forces. Their priority is heavy lifting, not special ops, but as I said before, the CH47 is the better choice when it comes to reliability and after sale support. So IAF will have more heavy lift helicopters available at all times, just not with the same capability as they used they have.
 

charlie

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Well if that's obvious, you shouldn't have problems with admitting that the Ch47 can't do the same and that IAF loses that capability now. No point in bringing up the C17.



Of course, that's why most of the capabilities CH47 fanboys advertise by looking at it's operations in US/NATO forces hardly has any value for IAF. IAF has different operational needs and different operational environments, than most western forces. Their priority is heavy lifting, not special ops, but as I said before, the CH47 is the better choice when it comes to reliability and after sale support. So IAF will have more heavy lift helicopters available at all times, just not with the same capability as they used they have.
For US special ops they have a different version called MH 47G, there are many things MH47 can do that a normal CH 47 can't because of different equipment used in it.


Heavy lifting in US is still done by CH 47, it can do utility operation much closer to combat zone then MI26 with little less lifting capability again there are much more benefits of using CH47 compared to MI26.

You were saying in one post that MI26 can do disaster relief by lifting much more. Now let me ask you when did Airforce primary task become disaster relief ? disaster relief is one of the task not the only task a military helicopter should be good at.
 

Sancho

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Heavy lifting in US is still done by CH 47, it can do utility operation much closer to combat zone then MI26 with little less lifting capability again there are much more benefits of using CH47 compared to MI26.
It can get closer, but can't carry the same loads, neither externally and by far not internally and that is the point!
And when you don't know how important disaster relief is for IAF, you clearly have no idea about their operations.
 

Enquirer

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It can get closer, but can't carry the same loads, neither externally and by far not internally and that is the point!
And when you don't know how important disaster relief is for IAF, you clearly have no idea about their operations.
So, at least it's pretty clear that you don't envision a major hole in the combat ops, but primarily in the disaster relief area.

Is it your hypothesis that countries without an Mi26 are/were unable to rescue their own population when disaster struck? In all fairness, Indian disaster management has by and large been pathetic - only recently it has improved due to better coordination/management even Mi26 has been at India's disposal for decades. Ch47 will in fact be more useful even in disaster rescue - it can literally 'land' on water (with engines running), quickly 'scoop' up dozens at once and fly away (floods being the biggest and recurrent natural disasters in India)!

I can see you're in love with Mi26. But, everyone's lives are better protected (in war zone or during natural disaster) with Ch47s!
 

Sancho

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So, at least it's pretty clear that you don't envision a major hole in the combat ops, but primarily in the disaster relief area.
That's your assumption not mine, since I don't just state my personal opinion on how IAF should use these aircrafts, but Base it on the fact on what IAF used the Mi 26 so far!
And since the CH47 is a replacement of the Mi 26, it will take over the same roles, (within it's limitations), or add some others, like transporting troops to places without a landingspot.
So I see the pros and cons of the aircrafts, as well as the operational requirements of the customer, while you only want to see what you like. But neither your C17 alternative helps the CH47, nor the references to other nations. You have to understand, what heavy lifting for IAF means and only then you will see where the CH47 fits and where it doesn't.
 

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