India's Interest in Lockheed F-35 Fighter

[ace009]

The problem with your approach is India will always be 50 years behind in tech. I'd rather not waste time. We are a much stronger economy now and can afford research, something that came at a premium earlier.

Regarding the Civic, I did not ask you to give me specs, but since you like to blatantly mislead let me state it loud and clear for you. The Indian 12 lac Civic is an automatic tranny, leather upholstry, front and rear disc, alloy wheeled elegant machine. The 18K Civic you quoted is a manual tranny, fabric upholstry, plastic wheeled, rear drum break peice of crap. When you match the specs, you end up paying $26K for the same machine. a small matter of Rs 1 lac. go figure.

Research in India? Have yo done it? Do you have any idea about what it takes, what we have in India and what we need to develop?
I have done research in India for 8 years before coming to the USA (yes, my PhD is from a premier Indian Research Institute). I have since worked in the USA for ~8 years - if you had any idea about what the difference is you would not even make naive statements like these ... problem is people from IT sector think that since India is doing better in IT (supposedly, don;t get me started there too), India is doing better in other engineering or Science areas. The truth is far far from it. Actually, in the last 120 years (since the time of J C Bose, C V Raman etc), India has consistently lagged behind. So so much so that the gap is indeed 50 years or so. To bridge that gap, you need more tahn just GDP growth - far less PPP growth. you need wholesale infrastructure changes - as well as political mind set changes and social changes. In my last 2-3 visits I have since NOTHING like this going on in India, including IIT, CCMB and a few other places I have visited.

As for the specs - you clearly do not read the specs - now do you? IT guy - RTDM?
The specs were for BOTH auto and manual tranny - 5 speed. Everything else put together it is still considerably cheaper in the USA. The fact of the mater is, civic is considered an entry-level car in the USA, hence all the "options". In India it is still a "luxury car", hence all the bells and whistles. But then you would not know would you? For you India's PPP is the great white mountain that we have climbed. here's anotehr curveball - have you looked at Indian per capita GDP? PPP or real? Compare it to a smaller and weaker economy like say, Malayasia? What do you see there?

For a country who have not been able to produce a decent assault rifle in 60 years, you do have BIG claims - eh mate?
Here's the deal - India is still developing - the economy is going well, and let's all hope it stays that way. Also let's hope that we buy tech from the west more often since they definitely have the edge in technology. I also hope that in my lifetime India will become a developed nation.

OT rant over - no more comments about F-35. For that matter I am out of this thread ...

 

[trackwhack]

Research in India? Have yo done it? Do you have any idea about what it takes, what we have in India and what we need to develop?
I have done research in India for 8 years before coming to the USA (yes, my PhD is from a premier Indian Research Institute). I have since worked in the USA for ~8 years - if you had any idea about what the difference is you would not even make naive statements like these ... problem is people from IT sector think that since India is doing better in IT (supposedly, don;t get me started there too), India is doing better in other engineering or Science areas. The truth is far far from it. Actually, in the last 120 years (since the time of J C Bose, C V Raman etc), India has consistently lagged behind. So so much so that the gap is indeed 50 years or so. To bridge that gap, you need more tahn just GDP growth - far less PPP growth. you need wholesale infrastructure changes - as well as political mind set changes and social changes. In my last 2-3 visits I have since NOTHING like this going on in India, including IIT, CCMB and a few other places I have visited.

As for the specs - you clearly do not read the specs - now do you? IT guy - RTDM?
The specs were for BOTH auto and manual tranny - 5 speed. Everything else put together it is still considerably cheaper in the USA. The fact of the mater is, civic is considered an entry-level car in the USA, hence all the "options". In India it is still a "luxury car", hence all the bells and whistles. But then you would not know would you? For you India's PPP is the great white mountain that we have climbed. here's anotehr curveball - have you looked at Indian per capita GDP? PPP or real? Compare it to a smaller and weaker economy like say, Malayasia? What do you see there?

For a country who have not been able to produce a decent assault rifle in 60 years, you do have BIG claims - eh mate?
Here's the deal - India is still developing - the economy is going well, and let's all hope it stays that way. Also let's hope that we buy tech from the west more often since they definitely have the edge in technology. I also hope that in my lifetime India will become a developed nation.

OT rant over - no more comments about F-35. For that matter I am out of this thread ...

Dont try to justify chasing wealth by blaming the lack of research infrastructure. If you are anything like the genius you make out to be then you prove your mettle when the going gets tuf and tuf it out in the poor infrastructure, make a difference, get some patents and make money. You just picked the easy way out. Why do we even blame politicians when we have jokers like you? I said this earlier too, for every one of you runaways who slurp the subsidized education you received from the 'Premium Institute' you went to, there are three that stay back and do good for the nation. I went to one such premium institute as well. I dont work for an American company. An American company pays my Indian company paying taxes in India for the work I do.

And to top it all, you want India to cozy up to America because that will somehow make your actions seem less hurtful? What if you found work in Russia? Would you still have similar convictions? Anyway, you're young enough and barring something unfortunate you will live to see the day when you will have to eat humble pie. If we are still in touch then I will bake you the pie.

Dont try to impress me with your 'I do research for an American company'. Your just one of several million others who do the same. Nothing special.

 

[Ray]

Notwithstanding, I would not know about the quality and intensity of research in the Indian private sector, but the DRDO is an unique organisation by itself, if you know what I mean!

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

After all the funds for the F-35 research has got exhausted they are trying to make the GoI invest our money into that trash, so that they will gain money and at the same time the fighter also. INDIA should stay away from this thing as it is a trash research and a trap to get our money into their research.

 

[Adux]

After all the funds for the F-35 research has got exhausted they are trying to make the GoI invest our money into that trash, so that they will gain money and at the same time the fighter also. INDIA should stay away from this thing as it is a trash research and a trap to get our money into their research.

What a load of self-pontificating crap, India doesnt even have anything to even relate to the tech that is in the F-35, let alone in match it. You sound like a looser kid 'hurling' abuse at the most inteligent and talented kid in class, saying textbooks and confidence dont matter in the real world. Indians are pig headed at times,

I am not advocating for taking the F-35 at the expense of MMRCA, but the above is not a justification for the refusal of the same.

What a load of trashy whine. And we are supposed to be a emerging global power.

 

[Immanuel]

p2p

I dont think we are getting a fully loaded F 35 with the EW capabilities you stated. That bird will cost us a cool $300 mil + per unit if thats true. at that rate 200 of those would be a 60 billion dollar bill. Not gonna happen!

On the other hand the PAKFA even if it costs the same, we are a joint stake holder in the design and development. We learn a lot.

We are developing our own AESA radar. The Russians are equipping us with their AESA radar. AESA is a principle. Its not a copyright and there is nothing like an American AESA is better than an Indian AESA or Russian AESA.

High cost estimates for the F-35 are purely based on current production numbers. Considering the total order book from US alone, the price will considerably drop below 100 million per unit. India would be a special case, We would have a good amount of local assembly. If we place an order of 200 jets right away, the deal would allow for tremondous leverage, since we'd probably be the largest customer after the US. We would have good access to tech as well. India would be a major supplier of parts in all of Asia and middle east for the F-35. The F-35 will have many orders and being part of the supply chain will bring enormous returns to our country. With such a large order we can certainly push for source code customization together with the US. we cant expect full-tot, fact is we're not getting full-tot for PAKFA as well.

Countries like Singapore, Japan, australia will also have lots of orders. Having India as a major centre for manufacture of critical spares for F-35 makes big sense for LM as well as our companies. They can gain much exp being part of such a large supply chain. Furthermore such a large order will also allow for co developement of the aircraft with lots of customization. All 3 variants are very useful and can allow for beautiful control over the battle field.

 

[Param]

F35 as should not have anything to do with mmrca.

If the US offers we should buy F35 instead of N-mmrca or wait a decade for Naval Pakfa

 

[Adux]

India is not going to get a production line for F-35, nor be involved in the manufacturing of it.

There is a requirement for 100 Fighter aircrafts for the Navy, that is the F-35C's. US can look at that. There is no turning back from the MMRCA. right or wrong.

Also people need to understand the sheer order book size of the F-35 to Rafale or Typhoon
There will nearly 3000 examples of F-35, possibly only less than 500 examples of Rafale and less than 1000 examples of Typhoons. There lies the Economies of Scale.

 

[Dovah]

'India has right to buy F-35 fighters'

----------------------------------------------------------Already Posted.-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Zebra]

Mix match this two ,

JSF ( VSTOL) and LHD ship like - Juan Carlos I .

Juan Carlos I Landing Helicopter Dock - Naval Technology

 

[weg]

High cost estimates for the F-35 are purely based on current production numbers. Considering the total order book from US alone, the price will considerably drop below 100 million per unit. India would be a special case, We would have a good amount of local assembly. If we place an order of 200 jets right away, the deal would allow for tremondous leverage, since we'd probably be the largest customer after the US. We would have good access to tech as well. India would be a major supplier of parts in all of Asia and middle east for the F-35. The F-35 will have many orders and being part of the supply chain will bring enormous returns to our country. With such a large order we can certainly push for source code customization together with the US. we cant expect full-tot, fact is we're not getting full-tot for PAKFA as well.

The UK is the only special case (because it helped with and provided tech for, the design) and it is not getting access to the source code. There will be NO technology transfer for the F-35 and the price will be well over $100million. Congress is delaying production build up for at least 3 years, so you will be looking at deliver in 2023 or so.

There will nearly 3000 examples of F-35, possibly only less than 500 examples of Rafale and less than 1000 examples of Typhoons. There lies the Economies of Scale.

The number of F-35's is severely in doubt. The f-22 only made 187 when it was supposed to 650, becuase the cost reduction never appeared. The F-22 is starting to look like a bargain and its even sugguested that the F-35 project be dumped for more F-22's. There are many countries who will have problems buying the number of F-35's they ordered becuase of the ridiculous price rises. Very little offset is offered to buyers, most has gone to the UK and Israel (who got their aircraft for free).

 

[Immanuel]

The number of F-35 may fall slightly but they'll end up having thousands anyways because the huge fleet of F-16s have to be replaced. The orders for F-35 will easily cross well over 3000. Cant say that the F-35 wont have any TOT because even countries like Turkey are making aircraft sections

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?ItemID=33119

There is no reason why a good chunk of the aircraft's parts cant come from India if we buy it. Afterall we are one of the few countries completly manufacturing the Su-30mki 4.5 gen aircraft in our country. TOT will offcourse come if the order is large enough. an order of 200 MRCA F-35 would easily allow for local assembly as well as lots of parts being manufactured in India. Sensitive parts will come from the US but so is the case for the FGFA its critical parts will comes from Russia as well. cant expect them to give away all tech they spend soo much time and money developing. I thinking being part of the F-35 program will bring a lot of good things for us and our industry. Our companies will directly become part of a global supply chain of feeding in high tech components ceratinly to regional customers of the F-35. This will bring in industry maturity. Having an assembly line in India will further reduce the per unit cost of the aircraft for regional customers thus making it more attractive for further purchases.

 

[ace009]

Dont try to justify chasing wealth by blaming the lack of research infrastructure. If you are anything like the genius you make out to be then you prove your mettle when the going gets tuf and tuf it out in the poor infrastructure, make a difference, get some patents and make money. You just picked the easy way out. Why do we even blame politicians when we have jokers like you? I said this earlier too, for every one of you runaways who slurp the subsidized education you received from the 'Premium Institute' you went to, there are three that stay back and do good for the nation. I went to one such premium institute as well. I dont work for an American company. An American company pays my Indian company paying taxes in India for the work I do.

And to top it all, you want India to cozy up to America because that will somehow make your actions seem less hurtful? What if you found work in Russia? Would you still have similar convictions? Anyway, you're young enough and barring something unfortunate you will live to see the day when you will have to eat humble pie. If we are still in touch then I will bake you the pie.

Dont try to impress me with your 'I do research for an American company'. Your just one of several million others who do the same. Nothing special.

So I break my promise for your personal attack. You make personal comments about people without knowing them at all. And then you want to justify all the ills in India for people who decide to call out on the same ills. You support Indian status quo blindly and glorify a faulty and failing system over and over. You know what? You are an idiot and a A-hole.
After my PhD I did work in India for a couple of years before I "ran away" as you so boldly suggest. I even worked "briefly" in your vaunted IT industry and realized how full of shit it is.
let me tell you a story of my latest visit - when I went to India to actually offer my services to Indian research organizations.

I went for a couple of job interviews in two of your "premier institutes"
In one of them I was pffered a job and asked to come and join in 2 weeks time, although their labs were not ready. When i asked for a months time as I have to move from USA back to India, I was bluntly told that they had "other candidates" who can join in 14 days. When I enquired about why the rush since there were no labs anyway, I was told to "mind my own business". In short, they had their own "candidates" and even if I was more qualified and had better training, I was being shafted in favor of their A-holes. I declined to join in 2 weeks and that was that.
In another interview I was asked to "tone down" my research since as a junior faculty my job was to teach students. For a research institute, "toning down" research sure sounds funny. On other enquiry I found out that new faculty are given the loads of classes so that the senior ones can take it easy - not that any of them do any good research. The instrument procurement processes were tedious, the infrastructure was wonderful on paper, non-functioning in reality. In the end I refused to "tone down" my research plans and I was "not chosen".

So much for my honest effort to go back to India and "do some good".

As for my own research, I do better job in this country - research that might actually help save lives in India. If I tried to do this in India I would run up against A-holes like you.

As for you, you have proven time and again that you are a SNAKE. You work` in the IT industry and like the "good lifdestyle" - what does that have to do with "serving" your country? It has everything to do with gaining wealth. If you had wanted to "serve" your country, you would be in the military or a college teaching and building our future generation.
You came to the USA to "serve" your company - more like to serve some American company for cheap! That does not help India anymore than it helps the USA. Every IT professional in India "dreams" of coming to the USA so that they can earn in dollars and get a taste of the "American" lifestyle.
I have this sneaky suspiscion that you hate USA because you are not very happy with your own performance in the "American company" and blame all that it stands for. All your claims of "superiority" are nothing but the whines coming from a bloated ego of a IT professional who is leading his "dream" life only to realize that the American bosses are demanding and actually expect results.
All your rants against USA, American technology and Indians living abroad are nothing but "grapes are sour".

As for your humble pie - let me know what the ingradients are when you bake it for yourself in say 20 year?

so - rant away - I KNOW I am better than you and will not reply to you any longer.

 

[Adux]

Ace009,

I am in a industry which is closely associated with the one's you mentioned, i can vouch that what you have painted is a rosy picture, the situation on ground is even worse. Do you know there are high end computers bought for lacs for Maritime Department lying waste in CUSAT , because they havent built a building for it and havent bothered to actually hire people for operating it, since that takes another government round about.

The Indian system is fvcked up, the earlier we accept that reality, the earlier we can change.

 

[p2prada]

^^^ sir...do u think thats such capabilities that u are talking about will be given to India..??F-35 is a 5th gen fighter plane so it really does have awesome capabilities but such capabilities will be given to India is billion dollar question...

Not everything will be given to India. But whatever we will get, like the radar and RWR, will be top notch. Better than anything we can develop or buy from anybody else.

And since you keep harping about the defence expenditure : Here is a little stat for you. Of the 1.8% of our GDP that we spend on defence, less than a quarter is spent on defence procurements. So please drop the same old stupid argument.

10-12% infact. Most of the budget goes into pay, maintenance, training and building infrastructure.

p2p

I dont think we are getting a fully loaded F 35 with the EW capabilities you stated. That bird will cost us a cool $300 mil + per unit if thats true. at that rate 200 of those would be a 60 billion dollar bill. Not gonna happen!

That bird isn't $200Million and definitely not $300Million. Israel just bought the a small number of prototypes for $144Million each. As production continues our bird will cost less than $100million. Any contract for the Navy will be after 2015.

On the other hand the PAKFA even if it costs the same, we are a joint stake holder in the design and development. We learn a lot.

One will not be sacrificed for the other. Don't forget I am supporting the F-35 bid for our Navy. PAKFA program is specifically meant for our air force.

We are developing our own AESA radar. The Russians are equipping us with their AESA radar. AESA is a principle. Its not a copyright and there is nothing like an American AESA is better than an Indian AESA or Russian AESA.

We will be making a basic AESA radar for LCA by 2018. The Mk2 will not have AESA and will be part of MLUs. A large diameter radar is out of the question for us within this decade. The American AESA is better than the Indian or Russian simply because of their longer experience. In terms of specifications Russia can match or even outmatch the American hardware, but what counts is the software. We will be behind them in that aspect for quite some time.

 

[p2prada]

If there is even a single doubt about AMCA we should also go for F35 .

AMCA will go on without hurdles. We cannot throw out the many scientists simply because we bought the F-35. It is too early to say how AMCA will progress. At least, unlike from the LCA experience, we will have base technologies ready for the AMCA program along with better infrastructure.

T50 is not fully stealth and F35 will fill in that gap.

It is the opposite. The T-50 is all aspect stealth, the F-35 isn't.

 

[p2prada]

3. N-FGFA - a naval version of the FGFA is theoretically possible, but will DEFINITELY require a CATOBAR platform, preferably a EMALS one considering the enormous weight and size of the plane. Also the host carrier should be large enough to house a significant number of these. Add to this the lack of any initiative from Sukhoi in designing a naval version as yet, this one borders on a no show.

FGFA is going to do fine with or without catapults. The Su-33 already takes off without it. Catapults are mainly for a higher sortie rate(debatable) and for launching heavier aircraft like the E-2D Hawkeye.

As for ToT, I am not sure what people expect. No country including Russia, Israel, France, Britain etc give their core technologies when they sell their products.

The others haven't yet done it but the Russians have. Note we are making the entire MKI from scratch, we are ahead of the Chinese in this department. The French are willing to provide their M-88 core for the Kaveri program and deals have already been signed. The EF consortium is ready to provide EJ-200 with full ToT.

The FGFA will be 100% ToT with engines and radars. Critics can keep saying otherwise, but we know they will come.

Also, knowledge sharing at that level is not simple. Even in my field I can teach someone how to build or prepare some technology using our systems, but without a similar infrastructure, they will never attain the quality or the capabilities that they learn here. At which point the accusation would be that the Yankees are trying to sell their "manufacturing equipment" to us too. Point is, the R&D and Manufacturing techniques are built around existing infrastructure, which themselves are valuable pieces of technology, built around other similar pieces of technology needed to support these. If you start in that path then it is like an onion, with layers and layers of intellectual property wrapped around each layer. Why and how can you acquire them by just buying one piece of equipment or technology?

Yes, that's why it takes at least a year or two to absorb technology after it has been built.

 

[trackwhack]

So I break my promise for your personal attack. You make personal comments about people without knowing them at all. And then you want to justify all the ills in India for people who decide to call out on the same ills. You support Indian status quo blindly and glorify a faulty and failing system over and over. You know what? You are an idiot and a A-hole.
After my PhD I did work in India for a couple of years before I "ran away" as you so boldly suggest. I even worked "briefly" in your vaunted IT industry and realized how full of shit it is.
let me tell you a story of my latest visit - when I went to India to actually offer my services to Indian research organizations.

I went for a couple of job interviews in two of your "premier institutes"
In one of them I was pffered a job and asked to come and join in 2 weeks time, although their labs were not ready. When i asked for a months time as I have to move from USA back to India, I was bluntly told that they had "other candidates" who can join in 14 days. When I enquired about why the rush since there were no labs anyway, I was told to "mind my own business". In short, they had their own "candidates" and even if I was more qualified and had better training, I was being shafted in favor of their A-holes. I declined to join in 2 weeks and that was that.
In another interview I was asked to "tone down" my research since as a junior faculty my job was to teach students. For a research institute, "toning down" research sure sounds funny. On other enquiry I found out that new faculty are given the loads of classes so that the senior ones can take it easy - not that any of them do any good research. The instrument procurement processes were tedious, the infrastructure was wonderful on paper, non-functioning in reality. In the end I refused to "tone down" my research plans and I was "not chosen".

So much for my honest effort to go back to India and "do some good".

As for my own research, I do better job in this country - research that might actually help save lives in India. If I tried to do this in India I would run up against A-holes like you.

As for you, you have proven time and again that you are a SNAKE. You work` in the IT industry and like the "good lifdestyle" - what does that have to do with "serving" your country? It has everything to do with gaining wealth. If you had wanted to "serve" your country, you would be in the military or a college teaching and building our future generation.
You came to the USA to "serve" your company - more like to serve some American company for cheap! That does not help India anymore than it helps the USA. Every IT professional in India "dreams" of coming to the USA so that they can earn in dollars and get a taste of the "American" lifestyle.
I have this sneaky suspiscion that you hate USA because you are not very happy with your own performance in the "American company" and blame all that it stands for. All your claims of "superiority" are nothing but the whines coming from a bloated ego of a IT professional who is leading his "dream" life only to realize that the American bosses are demanding and actually expect results.
All your rants against USA, American technology and Indians living abroad are nothing but "grapes are sour".

As for your humble pie - let me know what the ingradients are when you bake it for yourself in say 20 year?

so - rant away - I KNOW I am better than you and will not reply to you any longer.

Whatever makes you happy man - unfortunately, my respect is for those who try to make a difference and not for those who run away. You ran away and nothing you say is going to change that. Call as many names as you want, dosent change anything.

But since you did run away, stop dissing my nation. You did not like it, you took off. End of story.

 

[p2prada]

So I break my promise for your personal attack. You make personal comments about people without knowing them at all. And then you want to justify all the ills in India for people who decide to call out on the same ills. You support Indian status quo blindly and glorify a faulty and failing system over and over. You know what? You are an idiot and a A-hole.
After my PhD I did work in India for a couple of years before I "ran away" as you so boldly suggest. I even worked "briefly" in your vaunted IT industry and realized how full of shit it is.
let me tell you a story of my latest visit - when I went to India to actually offer my services to Indian research organizations.

I went for a couple of job interviews in two of your "premier institutes"
In one of them I was pffered a job and asked to come and join in 2 weeks time, although their labs were not ready. When i asked for a months time as I have to move from USA back to India, I was bluntly told that they had "other candidates" who can join in 14 days. When I enquired about why the rush since there were no labs anyway, I was told to "mind my own business". In short, they had their own "candidates" and even if I was more qualified and had better training, I was being shafted in favor of their A-holes. I declined to join in 2 weeks and that was that.
In another interview I was asked to "tone down" my research since as a junior faculty my job was to teach students. For a research institute, "toning down" research sure sounds funny. On other enquiry I found out that new faculty are given the loads of classes so that the senior ones can take it easy - not that any of them do any good research. The instrument procurement processes were tedious, the infrastructure was wonderful on paper, non-functioning in reality. In the end I refused to "tone down" my research plans and I was "not chosen".

So much for my honest effort to go back to India and "do some good".

As for my own research, I do better job in this country - research that might actually help save lives in India. If I tried to do this in India I would run up against A-holes like you.

As for you, you have proven time and again that you are a SNAKE. You work` in the IT industry and like the "good lifdestyle" - what does that have to do with "serving" your country? It has everything to do with gaining wealth. If you had wanted to "serve" your country, you would be in the military or a college teaching and building our future generation.
You came to the USA to "serve" your company - more like to serve some American company for cheap! That does not help India anymore than it helps the USA. Every IT professional in India "dreams" of coming to the USA so that they can earn in dollars and get a taste of the "American" lifestyle.
I have this sneaky suspiscion that you hate USA because you are not very happy with your own performance in the "American company" and blame all that it stands for. All your claims of "superiority" are nothing but the whines coming from a bloated ego of a IT professional who is leading his "dream" life only to realize that the American bosses are demanding and actually expect results.
All your rants against USA, American technology and Indians living abroad are nothing but "grapes are sour".

As for your humble pie - let me know what the ingradients are when you bake it for yourself in say 20 year?

so - rant away - I KNOW I am better than you and will not reply to you any longer.

Haha, your rant is actually more in line with my rant about how defence R&D is in India. When I said LCA and Arjun are crap, people could not believe it. My friends in the defence industry used to laugh when I sounded idealist about how great our achievements are. When they told how things work, that's when my opinion started to change.

Our education industry itself is a 100 years behind, let alone 50. We are still the swallow and spit kind of people. The best students are the ones who have the best memories, no one else must compare. Learning by rote is good for kids, but the same is practiced by our undergraduate engineers, post graduates and doctorates. Thinking has no place in India. Research, most people don't even know what that is.

Research in India is nonexistent. Our biggest IT company, TCS(Tata consultancy services), spends 0.33% of expenditure on R&D, funny that when Microsoft spends 16% of their expenditure and we know how big that is by simply looking at their revenues alone. Our IT industry is simply riding piggyback on the bigger industries which actually make stuff.

A lot of my friends who actually worked in the defence industry have already left for greener pastures abroad.

There is a little hope for the future though. Another guy I know has been working at BEML for over 20 years and he says they are finally putting them to work. Meaning they are quite busy as compared to earlier when they literally did no work. I am quite sure other industries are as busy too. So, hopefully in another 10 years we may see some thing good out of it.

 

[trackwhack]

Nobody is denying that things have to change drastically. I however have an issue with those that try to take high ground after failing to do a thing to change the situation. Cribbing about things needing to change is easy. Making the change is tough. What was it that Gandhi said again : BE THE CHANGE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE

Blame politicians for the mess? How many of you have taken up politics and tried to make a change? No. Stop complaining then
Blame Infrastructure for the mess? How many of you have taken up administrative services and tried to make a change? No, shut up then
Blame lack of research for the mess? How many of you have done anything with the limited resources available? None, STFU then

How many of you have run away? Many. Stay happy with where you are and what you do. But when you sit in you electrically heated pool mouthing off abuse and trying to justify why you did what you did, or that such and such is what India needs to do to improve, it pisses me and a few others like me off. You want to see change in the country, come back to the country and make those changes, else your just a pussy, so continue with your pussyfooting. Dont advice.