India Vs Brazil, which one is stronger?

pmaitra

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The reason is Brazil's official GDP on exchage rate is already 40% higher than that of India. (2.024 trillion vs. 1.43 trillion). The above picture is based on purchasing power which is highly arguable. It's a wake up call for India
Ok, I see what you are saying. However, I still think, overall, the picture gives the best picture, not only from the economic point of view, but also military and political. I know the Russian Federation has plenty of nukes, but in conventional warfare, I think it is PRC, India, RF and Brazil. The real comparison should be between India and PRC. India's aim should be to be at the top of the list and not focused on Brazil alone. That is my point.
 

kickok1975

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Cost of living comparison between Brazil and India

Brazil India Difference
Restaurants
Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant 8.18 $ 2.28 $ -72.07 %
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course 34.40 $ 9.18 $ -73.32 %
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar 8.49 $ 3.92 $ -53.83 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 1.88 $ 1.60 $ -14.90 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 3.49 $ 2.56 $ -26.60 %
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 1.32 $ 0.42 $ -67.99 %
Water (0.33 liter bottle) 0.91 $ 0.26 $ -71.01 %

Markets
Milk (regular), 1 liter 1.18 $ 0.59 $ -50.25 %
Loaf of Fresh Bread 1.64 $ 0.39 $ -76.41 %
Eggs (12) 1.83 $ 0.83 $ -54.34 %
Fresh Cheese (1kg) 9.12 $ 3.96 $ -56.65 %
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 4.74 $ 3.27 $ -31.00 %
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 1.22 $ 0.44 $ -63.68 %
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 12.22 $ 8.29 $ -32.16 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.46 $ 1.49 $ +1.70 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 3.02 $ 2.32 $ -23.31 %
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 2.42 $ 1.91 $ -20.98 %

Transportation
One-way Ticket (local transport) 1.44 $ 0.29 $ -80.10 %
Monthly Pass 62.05 $ 9.61 $ -84.51 %
Taxi (5km within center) 9.04 $ 1.97 $ -78.22 %
Gasoline (1 liter) 1.50 $ 1.23 $ -18.32 %
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) 26,543.42 $ 17,536.42 $ -33.93 %

Utilities (Monthly)
Basic (Electricity, Gas, Water, Garbage) 118.68 $ 35.17 $ -70.37 %
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff (no discounts or plans) 0.69 $ 0.02 $ -96.72 %
Internet (4 Mbps, Flat Rate, Cable/ADSL) 48.55 $ 20.15 $ -58.49 %

Sports And Leisure
Fitness Club, Monthly Fee for 1 Adult 67.35 $ 22.42 $ -66.71 %
Tennis Court Rent (1 Hour on Weekend) 15.07 $ 7.93 $ -47.37 %
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat 9.91 $ 3.81 $ -61.52 %

Clothing And Shoes
1 Pair of Levis 501 106.97 $ 40.48 $ -62.16 %
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...) 71.08 $ 38.56 $ -45.75 %
1 Pair of Nike Shoes 198.32 $ 62.68 $ -68.40 %
1 Pair of Men Leather Shoes 122.54 $ 46.37 $ -62.16 %

Rent Per Month
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 547.30 $ 182.42 $ -66.67 %
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 404.66 $ 121.04 $ -70.09 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 1,290.65 $ 404.89 $ -68.63 %
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 832.40 $ 285.66 $ -65.68 %

Buy Apartment Price
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre 2,314.96 $ 1,254.51 $ -45.81 %
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre 1,468.51 $ 731.00 $ -50.22 %

Salaries And Financing
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 711.90 $ 542.99 $ -23.73 %
Mortgage Interest Rate in Percentanges (%), Yearly 10.16 10.21 +0.50 %

Currency : USD
 

kickok1975

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Ok, I see what you are saying. However, I still think, overall, the picture gives the best picture, not only from the economic point of view, but also military and political. I know the Russian Federation has plenty of nukes, but in conventional warfare, I think it is PRC, India, RF and Brazil. The real comparison should be between India and PRC. India's aim should be to be at the top of the list and not focused on Brazil alone. That is my point.
Of course both India and China should always aim at top spot. But we should never underestimate Brazil which is growing really fast in recent years. Brazil will host World cup in 2014 and Olympic in 2016. I'm expecting a huge boost for Brazil's economy and her status in the world
 

kickok1975

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Brazil's mining giant, Vale By Economist

Few firms have achieved so much with so little fanfare. But can Vale mine anything other than iron ore?
IT IS perhaps the biggest firm you have never heard of. The Boston Consulting Group says it has created more value than any other large firm in the world over the past decade. Yet few people know how to pronounce Vale's name (it's "vah-lay").


This giant Brazilian miner has stayed out of the spotlight even as ravenous demand from China has propelled it from insignificance ten years ago to a market capitalisation of $147 billion. It is now the world's second-largest miner: smaller than BHP Billiton, but bigger than Rio Tinto and other better-known rivals.
That Vale has kept its success quiet is partly an accident of history. It is not the product of a headline-grabbing mega-merger. Rather, it was a staid state-owned firm until it was privatised in 1997. It hatched plans to build itself into a big, diversified mining company only in 2001.
However, it has not yet diversified much beyond iron ore or its home country. It is by far the world's biggest producer of iron ore, digging up some 230m tonnes of the stuff in 2009 (a weight roughly equivalent to 1,000 of the statues of Christ the Redeemer overlooking Rio de Janeiro—every day). Rio Tinto, the number two iron-ore producer, extracts a mere 172m tonnes annually.
Vale relies on iron ore for 65% of its revenues. Other mining giants spread their risks across multiple commodities and a variety of safe and hazardous countries. Vale, by contrast, mines mainly in Brazil.
Its ambitions to broaden its interests beyond Brazilian iron ore face two obstacles. Does it have the ability? And does it have permission? According to Rene Kleyweg of UBS, a Swiss bank, Vale has yet to prove that it can operate as a diversified miner. And its relationship with Brazil's government, which would prefer it to invest at home, is both tricky and unclear.
Iron ore is largely a logistics business. It is easy to extract, bulky and relatively cheap. The trick is to transport vast quantities around the globe quickly. At this, Vale excels. The firm owns about 10,000km (6,200 miles) of railways, nine ports and a huge fleet of ships.
Vale wants to expand its iron-ore business, a vast cash-generating machine, in Brazil and farther afield, in Guinea-Conakry. Rodolfo De Angele of JPMorgan Chase, a bank, predicts that in ten years' time Vale will still be mainly an iron-ore firm. But despite that wonderful substance's attractions, Vale aims to shuffle its assets to offer a greater variety of minerals to commodity-craving emerging markets.
In May it sold its aluminium business to Norway's Norsk Hydro, for a mix of cash and equity. Aluminium requires lots of expensive electricity to produce. Also, there is no shortage of it in China, which tarnishes its allure. Vale has plans for organic expansion in nickel, copper, coal and potash. Demand for all of these minerals is likely to surge as poor countries get rich.
Critics carp that Vale's ventures in copper and nickel have not been wholly successful. In 2007 it spent $19.4 billion on Inco, a Canadian nickel producer. Its Brazilian managers irritated its new Canadian employees. A year-long strike over pay and pensions by 3,000 workers ended only in July. A nickel investment under way at Goro in New Caledonia may show whether Vale has the skills to manage a big, technically demanding mining project.
If Vale's foreign ventures go poorly, that may not worry Brazil's government. Many in the industry claim that Vale's shareholding structure gives Brazil's president (currently Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva) the power to force Vale to invest and create jobs at home. But some of the pension funds and investment companies that hold big stakes in Vale will not like this at all. They care about returns, not economic nationalism. In theory it is shareholders who control Vale and the government owns only 5.4% of the shares.
However, Lula exerts pressure on the firm behind closed doors and through the media. A future president could do the same. The royalties Vale pays to the government for mining in Brazil are modest, but a new mining code under discussion will probably bump them up after the presidential election next month. The ultimate sanction—renationalisation—is extremely unlikely. That said, displeasure in Brasilia may have nudged Vale into ending negotiations to take over Xstrata, a Swiss mining firm, in 2008. But Vale rejects suggestions that a government "golden share" gives it the power to block deals.

Vale's decision to sell its aluminium business and to order a fleet of enormous ships from China has annoyed the Brazilian government, which is trying to revive Brazil's shipbuilding industry. The firm points out, not unreasonably, that it has to buy Chinese ships because Brazilian shipbuilders are incapable of making vessels that are big enough for its needs. It has half-acquiesced to Lula's pleas that it invest in Brazilian steelmaking; it has put modest sums into joint ventures and other partnerships. But Vale denies that recent investments in Brazilian potash are motivated by anything but commercial good sense. Potash is set to boom, it insists.
After the election Vale will unveil new investment plans. Rumours suggest that these will involve capital spending of up to $100 billion over the next five years—most of it in Brazil. That should keep the government happy, while leaving Vale with ample sums to invest abroad. It may be that the price of iron ore will fall, hobbling Vale's progress. But mining firms everywhere look at all the cars, pipes, bridges and steel-skeletoned skyscrapers that Chinese people seem to want, and doubt it.
 

The Messiah

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Let Brazil grow....i have no problems.

We should concentrate on ourselves rather than always looking outside.
 

Armand2REP

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Here is France GDP figure. Compare to France, Brazil is surpassing in purchasing power and not far at exchange rate
And yet its GDP by exchange rate is still only $1.6 trillion to French $2.8 trillion. PPP doesn't mean a thing when it says China has an economy as big as USA. :pound:
 

kickok1975

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And yet its GDP by exchange rate is still only $1.6 trillion to French $2.8 trillion. PPP doesn't mean a thing when it says China has an economy as big as USA. :pound:
Brazil's GDP by exchage rate is already 2.024 trillion, Armand. In 10 years France would be like a dwarf compare to Brazil. Sorry to say it, but Your time has gone.
 
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Armand2REP

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Brazil's GDP by exchage rate is already 2.024 trillion, Armand. In 10 years France would be like a dwarf compare to Brazil. Sorry to say it, but Your time has gone.
1.57 in 2009 + 7.5% only equals $1.69 trillion. 2.024 is its PPP. Sorry, it still doesn't come close to French $2.8 trillion real economy.
 

thakur_ritesh

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The reason is Brazil's official GDP on exchage rate is already 40% higher than that of India. (2.024 trillion vs. 1.43 trillion). The above picture is based on purchasing power which is highly arguable. It's a wake up call for India

nothing is a wake-up call for india but all a worry sign for brazil. they have a had a staggered growth, with absolutely erratic exchange rate, with inflationary pressures that they find difficult to cope with from time to time, a lot to worry about if one was to look for a steady growth in future and the impact of which can be seen with them struggling at 0.7% real gdp growth rate this quarter. here are some interesting figures:



Real Growth Rate figures:

Brazilian real growth rate figures ('03-'11):

2003 1.00 %, 2004 -.20 %, 2005 5.10 %, 2006 2.30 %, 2007 3.70 %, 2008 5.40 %, 2009 5.10 %, 2010 -.20 %, 2011 7.50 %

accumulated real growth rate figure of 29.7%

Indian real growth rate figures ('03-'11):

2003 4.30 %, 2004 8.30 %, 2005 6.20 %, 2006 8.40 %, 2007 9.20 %, 2008 9.00 %, 2009 7.40 %, 2010 7.40 %, 2011 8.30 % (estimate with prospects of upward revision in the region of 8.5-9%)

accumulated real growth rate figure of 68.5-69.2%, contrast that to brazil's 29.7%, is brazil growing any where near even remotely to india?

real growth rate numbers tell a completely contrasting story.



Exchange rates:

in 2006 brazilian exchange rate was 2.9675 to 1 US dollar, in contrast as we discuss this now the same exchange rate is at 1.62/USD, which means an appreciation of 45%, which in effect means factually they have done no wonders to achieve the said figure of 2.2t usd but a major contribution came in the form of revision in exchange rates with no significant change in life style.

in 2006 indian rupee was trading at 44.95 to a dollar and last nights closing rate is 44.54.

by the same estimate, had the indian currency appreciated as much, the indian economy by the end of december 2010 would have been in the region of 2.6-2.7T USD, and not 1.43T USD!!!!

exchange rates tell the real story of what is happening here.



Base Effect:

in 1990 brazil's nominal gdp was at 462b usd, to india's 317, and in 1996 brazil was at 871b us to india's at 411b usd, even this tells an extremely interesting story.



Inflation rate:

the accumulated inflation rate of brazil 2003-2011 is at 60.6%
the accumulated inflation rate of india 2003-2011 is at 60.2%

nothing much to choose there for the two countries on that one but if you compare the inflation and real gdp numbers then one can easily assume life in brazil has become miserable over the past decade, contrast that to life in india where there is genuine improvement.



all of the hard facts above show fundamentally india has had quality growth, with very strong fundamentals in place, can that even vaguely be said about brazil, guess what, not even remotely. no wonder the world community bets huge on india being the second largest economy in times to come and no one ever mentions brazil any where near.

comparison isnt between india and brazil or india and vietnam as badguy tried to do once on indian defence forum long back when that forum was up and running but between india and china. where china is today, india will be there in another decade to 12years time period and the reason as sighted before is because china started with economic reforms 12 years ahead to our economic reforms.
 

kickok1975

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I certainly hope India do well as 1/5 of world population is living there and she is China's neighbor. However, Brazil has some advantages we can't ignore:

1. Brazil is a huge country with abundant reserve of natural resources including fresh water (Amazon river), rain forest, oil and gas, iron ore etc.

2. Brazil has a smaller (about 200 million) population compare to India and China. But its population is probably at the right size for a country as big as Brazil. Brazil has less burden of population.

3. Brazil is not threatened by war or terrorist. All Brazil's neighbors are either peaceful or significant weaker than Brazil. Brazil is located at South America which is far away from center of world conflict

4. Brazil's economy is in good shape now comparing to several years ago. Under the leadership of president Lula, Brazil had finally overcome the developing problems most Latin American countries facing. Such momentum should continue under the leadership of president Rousseff, who is heir of Lula.

5. Brazil's private business is booming, renewable energy sector especially ethanol is leading the world

6. Both world cup and Olympics will be hold in the same country –Brazil in next 5 years. It's a huge historical opportunity

Personally, I'm pretty optimistic on Brazil's future. Brazil could become a true heavy weight at world stage sooner than later. India and China should watch their back before getting relaxed
 
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amoy

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I bet Brazil is more promising with its ideal size (territory / population) and resources . What they need is a better governance
2. Brazil has a smaller (about 200 million) population compare to India and China. But its population is probably at the right size for a country as big as Brazil. Brazil has less burden of population.
Many brag of "demographic dividends". But IMO it'd be ideal if China has only a pop. of 0.1Bln then Chinese might have a better life quality. Those who mock China is growing at the cost of environment might hv "forgotten" China sustains %% of the world's pop. with only %% of the world's arable land even less than India. A fast growing pop. not matched up with education and job opportunities will be a nightmare.

So how shall we keep pace with Brazil? Perhaps the more people emigrate to Brazil the better. The government shall even give incentives to emmigrants (*_*)
 
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Tshering22

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I certainly hope India do well as 1/5 of world population is living there and she is China's neighbor. However, Brazil has some advantages we can't ignore:

1. Brazil is a huge country with abundant reserve of natural resources including fresh water (Amazon river), rain forest, oil and gas, iron ore etc.
That's right. Brazilians have the same leverage that Russians do in terms of natural resources, whether mineral or consumable. However, it is also situated in a place where terrain is not really firm in terms of holding foundations and every year, there are terrible housing disasters compared to other 4 countries of BRICS.

2.
Brazil has a smaller (about 200 million) population compare to India and China. But its population is probably at the right size for a country as big as Brazil. Brazil has less burden of population.
200 million for a country that big IMO is a little too less. I think for all the BRICS countries, ideal population sizes should be as follows to remain in a good balance:

1) China: 900 million- 1 billion max

2) India: 700-800 million

3) Russia: 600-700 million

4) Brazil: 400-500 million

5) South Africa: 50-55 million.



3.
Brazil is not threatened by war or terrorist. All Brazil's neighbors are either peaceful or significant weaker than Brazil. Brazil is located at South America which is far away from center of world conflict
A very good point raised. Brazil has little geo-political tensions and add to that no terrorist problems at all. The only problem they got is the drug cartels and the mafia which is not difficult for fully trained marines and armed forces of Brazil. Although in a remote fashion I would state that Venezuela can be a potential threat to Brazil due to Chavez not liking anything pro-American and of course, geopolitical tensions. And Venezuela is perhaps the strongest on par with Brazil when it comes to military might in South America. With all that oil money, the man is going on a spending spree to build up his armed forces.


5. Brazil's private business is booming, renewable energy sector especially ethanol is leading the world
Due to point number 3, they have ample time and space to give a try to these alternate technologies unlike us. Same goes for Australians. Both these countries are located so ideally that there's hardly any problem in their development.

6. Both world cup and Olympics will be hold in the same country –Brazil in next 5 years. It's a huge historical opportunity
Brazil is already a master in sports; athletics, martial dances and most famous of all, FOOTBALL. So it has no shortage of publicity in terms of sports diplomacy.

Personally, I'm pretty optimistic on Brazil's future. Brazil could become a true heavy weight at world stage sooner than later. India and China should watch their back before getting relaxed
Brazil will NEVER take place of either China or India ever simply because of its non-involvement in the region's hotspot: Asia. In order to have a big slice of the bigger pie, one has to be participating in big matters no matter wherever they are. Now in this case, even US is finding it so difficult to be able to assert itself in Asia; Brazil is not even in the radius.
 

jazzguy

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I don't agree with you. If we, India, do not have 2.5 billion people in 2050, how can we enjoy demography dividend? With 2.5 billion people in 2050, we, India, will for sure become the no.1 superpower without no time delay.
 

kickok1975

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Personally, I think Russia's growing potential is exaggerated. Russia's economy will fall into the bottom spot among BRIC pretty soon and Russia would become a typical European country in terms of economy.

China, India and Brazil will have some real competition
 

AOE

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Depends on what you mean by typical European economy; compared to France, Germany, and England; they're not doing so good now as it is.

Brazil does have greater potential at present, they are the regional power in South America, have a considerable sized army, and a booming economy.
 
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captonjohn

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India has 6,000,000 sq km of land area including Tibet, Xinjiang and Mongolia grabbed by China in 1962. Our GDP is higher than Brazil if we include output from Indian oversea factories (especially from Indian Inc. in China where we use Chinese cheap labor cost.)
Have you taken any alcohol?? When did India got Tibet, Xinjiant and Mongolia????
 

kickok1975

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Depends on what you mean by typical European economy; compared to France, Germany, and England; they're not doing so good now as it is.

Brazil does have greater potential at present, they are the regional power in South America, have a considerable sized army, and a booming economy.
Typical European country has following characteristics:

1. sluggish economic growth rate
2. Near zero or negative population growth
3. High social welfare
4. High government debt
5. Short working hours but long paid vocation
 

AOE

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I thought you meant typical economy as in GDP or overall/average wealth.

Population growth does depend on the country, and also what year you get your statistics from. For the most part the population has remained neutral and that's actually a good thing, given that we've already approached 7 billion people in the world and climbing. Same can be said about point 5.

Points 1, 3, and some amount of point 4 is partially due to the west recovering from a recent recession.
 

Yatharth Singh

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I don't agree with you. If we, India, do not have 2.5 billion people in 2050, how can we enjoy demography dividend? With 2.5 billion people in 2050, we, India, will for sure become the no.1 superpower without no time delay.
Wow, now that is a limit cross of any positive thinking. You are relating the over-population with India`s development and that too becoming a superpower. Have you ever thought the infinite demands of such a huge population?

Where will you get food, land,water, electricity.
More population= more vehicle= more need of fuel to burn =more import of crude oil= increase in price=load on gov treasury= dis balance in economy. More strain on police, strain on gov to ensure food security, to provide free education and vaccine and to maintain its social welfare schemes.

But all you thought is just to enjoy the outcome. Dig the reality, its not so easy. Superpower is a very big word, so use it wisely.
 

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