India view on Xinjiang seperatism

sgarg

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India is not even close to being a major Asian power.
I chuckle when I hear people say that India will be a superpower in 20-30 years.

India today cant even provide electricity to its citizens without having the power cut 2 or 3 times a day.
There is more to being a superpower than just making some missiles and nukes.
If India does not watch out - it could even get surpassed by countries like Indonesia if they get their act together.
There is not a single Indian company that has a world-wide name recognition like Apple, Samsung, Mercedes, BMW, IBM, Intel, Sony, Huawei, etc.

The problem with the "India story" for the last couple of decades is that its always been more hype than substance
Indonesia cannot compete with India.

India is already a major power, not only in Asia but beyond Asia. This power is more soft power than hard power. Typically hard power follows soft power.

The name recognition should not be a problem as large Indian conglomerates like Tata, Birla, Mahindra, Bajaj etc have significant overseas presence now.

Every person connected with software in USA can list major Indian software companies. This I know for sure.

Electrification of villages is not a problem. The problem is supply which is constrained by availability of coal, gas etc. India's land to people ratio is skewed means higher population density. Countries with high population density are forced to import raw materials.
 

sgarg

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Well, when this currency printed out of thin air is backed up by world dominant navy/air force, world most advanced manufacturing industries, world most advanced R&D bases, and a world unique financial center, this currency is certainly carrying more credit than any currency of the rest of world.

The country with such a currency is more to being a superpower than having thousands of missiles and nukes.
I agree with your point. However USA faces a big risk as its children are not as good as the parents. The ability of USA to sustain its economy is in doubt as baby boomer generation bows out.
 

pmaitra

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Well, when this currency printed out of thin air is backed up by world dominant navy/air force, world most advanced manufacturing industries, world most advanced R&D bases, and a world unique financial center, this currency is certainly carrying more credit than any currency of the rest of world.

The country with such a currency is more to being a superpower than having thousands of missiles and nukes.
The country does not own the currency. The country borrows the currency from a private bank called the Federal Reserve. When was the last time there was an audit of the Federal Reserve?
 

sgarg

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Till WW2 two major powers fought with each other........Britain&France

After WW2 another two major powers fought with each other......... USA&USSR

Ind&China destined to fight with each other for power,market,resources (in covert manner,direct war btw huge/nuclear nations is not possible).
I do not think China and India are destined to fight openly.
USA/USSR was a different case. It was a fight of ideology.
 

sgarg

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The country does not own the currency. The country borrows the currency from a private bank called the Federal Reserve. When was the last time there was an audit of the Federal Reserve?
Federal Reserve is owned by same people who own the country of USA. Let us not kid ourselves with the notion that Fed Reserve loans to USA mean anything. It is just a means to fool the world. The fact is USA keeps on creating money. The same is happening in India and China also. The only difference is USA currency is "hard" currency while India's currency keep on losing value due to additional money supply.
 

sgarg

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India has NO desire to intervene in XINXIANG or Tibet.

People can express their opinions but State policy is clear that India does not want to interfere.
 

pmaitra

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Federal Reserve is owned by same people who own the country of USA. Let us not kid ourselves with the notion that Fed Reserve loans to USA mean anything. It is just a means to fool the world. The fact is USA keeps on creating money. The same is happening in India and China also. The only difference is USA currency is "hard" currency while India's currency keep on losing value due to additional money supply.
The US government does not print the US Dollar. The US government gives out government bonds to the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve in exchange gives Dollar Bills (printed, as well as electronically created) to the US government, which the US government spends. The branch of the US government that performs this dealing with the Federal Reserve is the US Treasury.

You might as well verify.

The US currency is also losing value, just like the India currency. Both the US currency and the India currency follow the concept of Fractional Reserve Banking.

This, also, you may verify.
 

sgarg

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@pmaitra, the US bonds mean as little as the currency. Both are pieces of paper and no longer supported by anything of real value.

USA is strong as it pays for imports with US dollar. This is why UN is rigged, and IMF and World Bank are rigged. The day an international currency like SDR is implemented, the USD will be in trouble.
 
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sgarg

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Is it i clearly mentioned........... COVERT &direct war is not possible

'USA/USSR war' there are so many theories,u can't say only ur theory is right
prok! army doing same atrociteis in balochistan&FATA,why can't India openly support BLA&TTP :cool2:
Please advance your arguments in support of your premises. I am all ears.
India can support Baluchistan but just saying something is not adequate. A State policy needs to be implemented. That requires presence on the ground.
 

Sylex21

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India is not in a position to do anything in Xinjiang or offer any support for separatist activity.

India has enough problems keeping its own borders intact.
What happens in Xinjiang has little to do with India. India is overrwhelmed with its own problems, and cannot afford to waste money or energy in adventuristic endeavors.

India needs leaders who can put their nose to the grindstone and focus on the myriad issues. Hopefully Narendra Modi will be that leader.
India is not even close to being a major Asian power.
I chuckle when I hear people say that India will be a superpower in 20-30 years.

India today cant even provide electricity to its citizens without having the power cut 2 or 3 times a day.
There is more to being a superpower than just making some missiles and nukes.
If India does not watch out - it could even get surpassed by countries like Indonesia if they get their act together.
There is not a single Indian company that has a world-wide name recognition like Apple, Samsung, Mercedes, BMW, IBM, Intel, Sony, Huawei, etc.

The problem with the "India story" for the last couple of decades is that its always been more hype than substance
I don't think you really have a good grasp of global politics if you think India is not even close to being a major Asian power. Economically, militarily, geopoliticaly in every way India is a MASSIVE Asian power and in line of be along with USA + China a super power easily in 20-30 years. I could explain all the reasons why, but it would take far too long and you should at least make the basic effort to google the topic and educate yourself on the simplest of issues and background information. India is in EVERY position to do all sorts of things in Xinjiang, the discussion is about if it SHOULD. India is no more "overwhelmed" with its own problems than any other nation. India's been massively successful in the past decades, it has only been eclipsed by China because China has done even better. Compared to the rest of the world India has been a POWERHOUSE. China's GDP was the same as India's as recently as 2006. There are many factors for this, a ton of easy credit funding rapid growth when you only allow people to have 1 child reducing the demand for credit loans for tuition, homes, cars, etc... These short cuts will have costs in the future.
 

Sylex21

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I don't think the US considers China to be a major threat to the Western establishment. On the economic front sure China has made its presence felt but China isn't actually capable of projecting power and therefore is not a major threat to the West.
As for India becoming a super power in 20-30: highly doubtful. First I would start with definition of super power. I think it could be defined as a power that is capable of subduing any other adversary it meets along the way AND capable of influencing the world for its own interests at the expense of the adversary's interest or anybody else's interest. No, during the cold war there was NO super power; in the 80s the US emerged as the super power. Second, geography puts India at a disadvantage as far as the superpower game is concerned. For India to be able to enforce its will, it needs foremost a very strong Navy, not the case now or for foreseeable future. Third, India needs a strong manufacturing base, not there as of now. Next, India has several internal fissures which can conveniently be exploited by external powers, thanks to the fact the we have adopted Western democracy. So on and so forth
So as far as superpower stairway goes, India hasn't started climbing the stair yet. So difficult to say if and when it will become a superpower.
Though I would agree that India has got vast potential. It needs to be channeled properly.

Also in the future, if China is a power that is able to threaten and provide a viable opposition to India, automatically that means India is not a super power. There can't be 2 super powers. If India has to be "super power" then China can not be. In that case it may be a good for India, if Tibet and Xinjiang are not in Chinese grips and Han are confined to East Asia. But this seems far from possible as the Chinese have these two regions: the treasure chest of China and the water tower of Asia firmly in their grip. The Chinese must be thanking their lucky stars that the dalai lama and his groups went to India rather than some more powerful country.
It will be interesting to see how India reacts when China starts asserting more power on waters of rivers originating in Tibet. These rivers will have lowers output in the near future thanks to receding glaciers.


I think you are exaggerating, a bit.
-Everything in American policy, every recent military and strategic report names China as the number one threat to American dominance and security. The entire American policy is based on a shift to Asia to contain China.
-China isn't a threat to the west YET, but based on growth patterns it will become a threat soon, so the West is preparing now.
-India has a very strong navy, one of the strongest in the world already. It is growing at a rate much faster than other major nations except China.
-There were 2 super powers in the cold war, the USA after the fall of the Soviet Union is classified as a "Hyper-Power" according to most political textbooks.
-How do you figure geography puts India at a disadvantage? India's geography has many advantages as well, think cutting off the oil supply from the Middle East, massive coast lines, unrivaled major power in South Asia etc...
-India has 1/5th of the world's population and hence already affects a massive amount of humanity, that alone would be enough to consider yourself a super-power in one way. But being the 4th largest military and the 3rd largest economy by PPP or 8th by GDP nominal is also a good start on the path.
-Your point about "there can't be 2 super powers" is silly, you've just invented your own definition now of the term and it is incorrect.

To all the Anti-India nay sayers, let me point out a few things. World politics is very complex and you need not only look at how things are today but at "trends", the places things are headed. For example China has done very well, but that does not make it the only successful nation in the history of the world. There are many trade offs China has made for rapid growth, prices that will have to be paid long term. There will be more and more push for democracy and that transition will be very hard on China's economy eventually, there will be a price to pay when the never ending stream of cheap credit from having very kids and many working age members depositing their savings into banks suddenly start to pull their money out of the system for retirement.

-No I am probably under stating India's advantage.

1) China's economy matched India just 8 years ago in 2006. A few percentage points in India's favor could easily reverse the trend over the next 20-30 years. People who think it's silly to say India will be a super power in 20-30 years don't seem to understand trends. Look what China did in just 8. 20-30 years seems a VERY long time.

2) Since the 1970's the American economy has expanded roughly 3x, India's economy has expanded 24 times!!! Yes some Indian's might be poor or sh!t in the streets and I'm sure it's fun for Westerners and others to point that out, but the simple truth is India is rising and no one will prevent India from becoming a massive world power in the near future. In 1996-1998 when Bill Clinton visited India a US president hadn't visited India in 16+ years. Now the American media themselves are saying it would be unthinkable for a US president to not visit India at least once while in office.
 

Sylex21

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Misinformed ?......who is misinformed. I go back to Kerala every year. I have friends in the US from virtually every state in India, except the North-East and every one of them confirms that there are power cuts in virtually every state.

You really haven't been around the block, if you think Reliance and Tata are global brands. And buying a few English or American companies does not make any company a global brand.

My bigger point is that there isn't a single company in India that was organically grew from its Indian roots to be a major global player.
Maybe you'll find a few Mahindra tractors in some US farms, but nothing that suggests that Indian companies can dominate in the future.
At least the Chinese have Huawei, Xiaomi and a bunch of up and coming players.

You can't be a superpower or a regional powerhouse without building the GDP and a powerful economy which includes hitech and exports.
None of those points are slightly relevant to the topic at hand. What Soviet brands were famous? Would you claim the Soviet Union was never a super power? Many tiny European nations have famous brands, but it would be absurd to suggest they are super powers. Power cuts are an internal issue and they might slow down GDP growth. But the issue isn't "power cuts" it's GDP and GDP growth total, both of which India has excelled at.

I agree with your point about a powerful economy and that is just what India has done. China's done it better no doubt so far, but just compare India's growth since independence to any other nation, it has been explosive. India was completely irrelevant to the world in the 1940's and 1950's, India is one of the major powers in the world now, and this rapid rise will only increase year by year. My point about the US economy having increased 3x since 1970 and the Indian economy having increased 24 times in that same period of time!
 

sgarg

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@Sylex21, we are NOT in a pissing match. Let China be a super-power if it so wishes.

India stands for its principles and its culture. There are a lot of people who like us for what we are. We don't have to imitate China or any other country.

India does not wish to intervene in Xinxiang and Tibet. This is the official position.
 
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tarunraju

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Well, when this currency printed out of thin air is backed up by world dominant navy/air force, world most advanced manufacturing industries, world most advanced R&D bases, and a world unique financial center, this currency is certainly carrying more credit than any currency of the rest of world.

The country with such a currency is more to being a superpower than having thousands of missiles and nukes.
That's exactly what I meant by playing street-thug. The economy not only prints money out of thin air, but is debt-based. The US owes itself and the rest of the world tens of trillions of USD, and prints more money without much consequence on its economy. That's hardly super-power behavior. The British Empire owed nobody anything. Nor the the Soviet Union at its peak. Those were super-powers.
 

Ray

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Tata appoints JWT as creative agency for global brand campaign

Tata Sons Limited, the principal investment holding company of the Tata group, has appointed JWT as the creative agency for its global brand campaign. The campaign will seek to present three core messaging corridors about the Tata brand – Tata is global, Tata is trustworthy and Tata is a good corporate citizen.

http://www.wpp.com/wpp/press/2014/a...as-creative-agency-for-global-brand-campaign/
 

Srinivas_K

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prok! army doing same atrociteis in balochistan&FATA,why can't India openly support BLA&TTP :cool2:
Regarding TTP, there is USA in Afghanistan pulling strings behind every thing. TTP is a religiously motivated radical group, the ideology is similar to LET. These guys do not want partition of Pakistan but they want Pakistan to be ruled according to their version of Islam.

Regarding Balouchistan, I think India should give them moral (voice the atrocities) support because of the sufferings Balouch people are going through. Since China is interested in that region more force will be applied on that region who resist foreigners.

The bigger powers are playing their game, If USA prevented USSR to reach warm waters, I doubt they will not anything about China.

Unless China agrees to play according to USA's game plan, as in the past.
 
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Srinivas_K

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What dream world u living,why u care TTP/BLA follows kuran,ISI,ethnic,KFC,cocacola :lol:

my concern is,they are killing paki's &paki army that is enough for me and they are my BFF.I think u know one Golden rule ENEMY OF MY ENEMY :namaste:

mark my words gwadar is not practical for another 40yrs atleast.
The rule "my enemies enemy is my friend" will not work always.

In strategic studies "1+1 is not always equal to 2"
 

Srinivas_K

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I said bff with condition "untill they are killing paki&paki army",is there any sane mind believe MO :lol:
I believe there are prophets and also sages.

Some times there are misinterpretations, no GOD hates his creations. Islam is a political force to the core. Political ideologies rise and fall !!

How do you think West has risen and is controlling the world??

may be GOD wanted them to dominate the world, US citizens feel they are chosen by GOD. Islam had its time, West is having its time. No one can dominate the world for all times.
 

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