India-US Ties Are Strong – But For A Price

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Jumbo, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Jumbo

    Jumbo Regular Member

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    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/07/india-us-ties-are-strong-but-for-price.html

    India-US Ties Are Strong – But For A Price

    Wednesday, July 04, 2018 by Indiandefense News
    by Manoj Joshi

    We should not be distracted by the second postponement of the 2+2 dialogue between India and the US. The way it was done, suggests that it was, indeed, an outcome of an immediate requirement rather than any deliberate slight.
    But there are other developments that point to the increasingly strong headwinds that India must confront its relationship with the US. These ties have grown enormously in recent years. They feature closer political coordination between the two countries, significant arms sales from the US to India, high-level visits, multiple forums of engagement at the ministerial and official levels, and regular military exercises.
    The closer the two countries are getting, the higher the price New Delhi is being asked to pay.

    Non-Alignment
    Strangely, the closer the two countries are getting, the higher the price New Delhi is being asked to pay to bring the relationship closer. In some ways it appears that as the relationship moves from dating towards a marriage, India is being asked for the usual huge dowry.
    The two major items in this demand, visible as of now, are the American call for India to break its relationships with Iran and Russia.
    The US may be willing to allow New Delhi time to begin cutting its oil imports from Iran, but it’s clear that they must hit zero at a certain point. Iran, it should be noted, is the closest source of hydrocarbon energy to the Indian subcontinent. The second set of items relates to our important defence ties with Russia.
    The letter of the American law called Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) is quite clear and would immediately affect new purchases, joint ventures and the acquisition of spare parts and components.
    Since the 1960s, Russia has met our defence supplies requirements big and small. The immediate impact could be on the acquisition of the S-400 system, the Project 1135.6 frigates and the Ks 226T utility helicopter deals. But the US law will also hit spares and components, which means some 60 to 70 per cent of India’s defence equipment.
    The choices for India are stark. It can comply with the US demands and begin a process that would gut our ties with Iran and Russia. Or it can take a stand and tell the US that it will not accept the extra-territorial application of its laws and will only accept sanctions imposed by the UN. Ironically, the US action in Iran is based on a trashing of international law viz a UN-sanctioned agreement.
    Since the 1960s, Russia has met our defence supplies requirements big and small.

    Balancing Act
    Whatever the view from Washington DC is, both Iran and Russia occupy an important place in India’s regional policy and have a geopolitical logic that is specific to India.
    To tamely acquiesce with American demands would mean that India has, in essence, abandoned any pretence of servicing its own geopolitical needs. New Delhi has to decide what kind of a power it is. Is it truly a country that values “strategic autonomy” or is that just a slogan of convenience?
    The Indo-US entanglement is not new.
    From the 1950s we have had differences on our terms of engagement. In the Cold War, the US wanted military allies, India did not oblige and, indeed, reached out to the Soviet Union to meet the military needs the American camp refused to fill. After the Soviet collapse, we have danced a long tango, but have not quite been able to shape a new relationship. The US has consistently failed to understand that India cannot be a partner like Japan or Western Europe for which the US is a net security provider. Armed with nuclear weapons, India faces no existential threat. But it has wider security concerns and needs which require a geopolitical orientation which is different from that of the US.
    Iran, it should be noted, is the closest source of hydrocarbon energy to the Indian subcontinent.

    Power Politics
    Beyond issues of world order and promotion of democratic ideals, India needs the US in balancing China, primarily because it has failed to carry out the deep restructuring and reform needed to modernise its armed forces and its defence industrial base. But by the same measure, the US, too, needs India to offset the growing strength of China. From the Sea of Japan to the Red Sea, there is no country with the heft of India to give the US-led effort to contain China some credibility.
    So, there is a compelling short-term logic for closer India-US ties. But in the longer term, those ties are important also because of the idea of India — this country is pursuing a democratic, economically vibrant, and technologically advanced civilisation-state. A global power whose destiny as well as its decision autonomy is in its own hands. The US once said it was willing to aid India in reaching this goal. But today, its narrower vision of its own foreign policy seems to be undermining this promise.
     
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  3. Jumbo

    Jumbo Regular Member

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    Few countries are there in this perfect world, who keep buying weapons from every where, till date.

    No one cried about it in past.

    What about those countries now onwards...………..!...……..?

    Can't the same rule applied for India now ...……….!
     
  4. Jumbo

    Jumbo Regular Member

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    Enough drama, better stay with Russia.

    What say...…………!
     
  5. nongaddarliberal

    nongaddarliberal Senior Member Senior Member

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    Considering what India's military budget will be 10 years from now, and the fact that we will still be importing a majority of our weapons, American defence companies are in no mood to lose the Indian market. This is just an effort by the US to test our resolve. We should stick with whatever purchases we planned with Russia. For some time the Americans might throw a hissy fit, but will come back to normal when we put out another large tender.

    Even their senate and congress have had intense debates considering waiving sanctions on India for purchasing Russian equipment, since they too realize that stopping weapons imports from Russia will severely hamper our war fighting abilities, as spares will also become an issue.
     
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  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    India-US relationship will start coming back on track after their mid-term elections.

    Don’t be surprised if some American senator in India caucus is pissed off at modi govt for cancelling his/her favourite NGO licence. Their politicians too need funds for their election campaigns.
     
  7. nongaddarliberal

    nongaddarliberal Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well that's where we should use our lobbying power. There are plenty of pro India NRI's with plenty of cash to spare. And the Indian government should also not be shy from making these "investments" in their political system for longer term gain.
     
  8. Jumbo

    Jumbo Regular Member

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    https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-bilateral-limits-of-hype/article24323826.ece

    The bilateral limits of hype: on India-U.S. relations


    Varghese K. George
    July 04, 2018 00:02 IST
    Updated: July 03, 2018 23:54 IST

    Given the transactional nature of American foreign policy, India-U.S. ties can do without grand theories
    Prime Minister Narendra Modi and U.S. President Donald Trump have both built their politics on the promise of making their countries great again. Placing India and the U.S., respectively, as leaders on the world stage is the stated objective of their foreign policy. The project of regaining national glory is based on another assumption that they inherited a mess from their respective predecessors. Yet another shared trait is their love for spectacle over meticulous, prolonged and often frustrating pursuit of strategic goals...………….
     
  9. aarav

    aarav Regular Member

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    India is hedging it's bets on multi alignment and now it is impossible to revert the policy for mr orange and its hawks like Bolton and pompeo
     
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  10. prohumanity

    prohumanity Senior Member Senior Member

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    In today's World..trade is the most important parameter to measure which country is aligned with which.
    Let me give you a true data from US govt. source.
    China imported goods worth 130 million dollars and exported goods worth 505 million dollars to USA in 2017.
    India imported goods worth 25 million dollars and exported goods worth 48 million dollars to USA in 2017.
    Pakistan imported goods worth 3 million dollars and exported goods worth 3.5 million dollars to USA in 2017
    CHINA EXPORTS 10 TIMES MORE TO USA THAN INDIA.
    Think about these figures when you interpret news.
     
  11. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    What can Russia offer to us??? Their is more to life in general than just importing weapons!!! So I ask again what can Russia offer us except weapons???
     
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  12. Kalki_2018

    Kalki_2018 Regular Member

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    What can US offer you? Nothing at the moment.
     
  13. Kalki_2018

    Kalki_2018 Regular Member

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    What can US offer you? Nothing at the moment.
     
  14. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    diamonds
    ..............................
     
  15. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Good one.:clap2::clap2::clap2:
     
  16. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    We are dependent on US for almost everything i.e. from computers (including software and computer components) to different process technologies to pharmaceutical drugs to medical devices and the list goes on.

    Most importantly we are dependent on US and western countries for foreign exchange through trade against which Russians sell us their military hardware.
     
  17. Jumbo

    Jumbo Regular Member

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    In 2018, Russia offers much more. For example ----->



    …………………………………………………………………………………………….

    US wants market, only and only market.

    On other hand Russia has different approach, they wants India to be with them.

    In 2018 and on wards, It sounds better option for India.

    My two cents though.
     
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  18. prohumanity

    prohumanity Senior Member Senior Member

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    This whole "all or none" approach is foolish. Russia is Russia..U.S is U.S. Russia is resource rich, weapon maker ,military powerhouse whereas U S is technological and financial juggernaut.

    Assume that there is a jungle....In the jungle, there is a Lion, a dragon, an Elephant , a wild Bear and a Pig .
    Lion ,of course is the most powerful animal. But, Lion is not bothered by the Elephant as Elephant does not bother the Lion and Elephant just keep moving in its own happy manner. So, Lion does not attack the Elephant. Not only that, the Lion likes the Elephant covertly.
    The dragon spits fire time and again and burns Lion's skin...that makes Lion angry and he scares Dragon by charging at him. ( Think Trade War )

    Then there is Wild Bear..who walks with intimidating looks and growls at Lion...The Lion gets very upset but has difficulty attacking the bear as the bear's growling and aggressive look puts some fear in Lions heart.

    Lastly, there is the dirty, feces eating Pig...who smells, is ugly and gross...The Pig believes in his dirty tricks ( Think terrorism ) and is sneaky and sometimes brings tea for the Lion and sometimes brings tea for the Dragon...to please both of them. The problem with Pig is that it has no self esteem and is very envious of the Elephant as lots of animals in the jungle like the Elephant for its peaceful. helpful non threatening nature. Pig's envy of the Elephant keeps him miserable and unhappy. But he can not give up this 70 year old envy.

    Just like animals, nations also have their own personalities...unique to them.
     
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  19. prohumanity

    prohumanity Senior Member Senior Member

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    I just want to add that the Elephant likes its independence and freedom to roam around without anyone telling him what the Elephant can or can not do.

    I read Jumbo's first post above..it makes a lot of sense. But, for economic development, Communist China quickly abandoned Communist USSR. Nations have to act on their self interest. Look at Russia now...it is getting close to China because it seems in its self interest.

    Logically, India should follow the history of these other nations when they were put at a place where they had to choose.

    Yes, US has a tendency to smother or somewhat control its allies..BUT..on the other hand, India's basic tenets are certainly more in tandem with that of United states...such as democracy, free enterprise, individual property rights,
    freedom of expression and so on. No doubt, US is India's natural ally. Communism has never been a principle of ancient Indian civilization dating back thousands of years.

    What should India do ? If possible, be friends with old friend Russia and be good friend with its natural ally, USA.
    It is going to be easy ? I don't think so. That's where the resilience of Indian civilization will be tested in next few years.

    I don't think US will dare to demand subservience from India as it has in the past ,with its old ally, Pakistan.
    US does understand that if you try to control the Elephant too much...it can go on a rampage causing a huge destruction and chaos. Treat the Elephant right, and it can lift and transport the whole jungle for you.
     
  20. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

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    What imports will India need in defence after 10 years? The way I see it is that India will be almost self sufficient in defence in 10 years. India is making rapid progress in almost all forms of technology and is unlikely to need much defence imports in the future. All items including radars, engines will be made in India and there will be hardly anything that India will need from USA

    Lobbying is not as simple. Just money is not enough. Other longer term goals are also important

    Russia is a net exporter whereas USA is a net importer. USA just prints dollars and uses its alliance with Arabs to encash it whereas Russia gives actual resources. Russia gives ToT to India whereas USA only seeks subservience and dependency of India o itself.

    Except for 22nm and below semiconductor chips, US has nothing to offer India. All other manufactured goods including 32nm and above chips can be obtained from China. Russia gives technology for defence and strategic eeds. What does USA give?
     
  21. Jameson Emoni

    Jameson Emoni Regular Member

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    I have a slightly different analogy.

    Russia is like a beautiful woman who tells India, "Come with me. I may not have enough money but I will treat you right. Also I don't mind if you want to hang out with another woman."

    China is like a deceitful woman who tells India, "Come with me. We can build a house together where we could live happily ever after."

    US is like a rich woman with a big gun who tells India, "You better come with me and don't even think about sleeping with other women."

    Then you have Pakistan who is like a jealous woman who goes crazy when she does not receive enough attention from India.

    India is like a humble village man who says, "I give up." :)
     
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