India to spend 35 billion dollars over 10 years to boost airpower

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
Ok, btw do these MLU upgrades also increase the life of the airframe?
That only depends on what's on the contract. The aircraft would have finished half their life, so service life extension programs may come up much later.

They will be replacing some metal parts with composites, we don't know how extensive it will be.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Ok. Cheers. :thumb:

We are getting both anyway. So, win-win for IAF.
It will be win-win for France and India when India realises that PAK FA avionics are not going to meet requirements. They will be well familiar with Rafale and want its avionics installed on PAK FA airframe.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
^^^

You mean France will provide the 360 degree radar capability. :lol:

I don't mind using French avionics, but then we are working with the Israelis on this front. When HAL was awarded 35% of work share for PAKFA this will surely include all the stuff that we are building with Israeli help at places like BEL and DARE.

So, in the end Indian companies will be delivering 5th gen avionics for the PAKFA/FGFA.
 

EzioAltaïr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
^^^

You mean France will provide the 360 degree radar capability. :lol:

I don't mind using French avionics, but then we are working with the Israelis on this front. When HAL was awarded 35% of work share for PAKFA this will surely include all the stuff that we are building with Israeli help at places like BEL and DARE.

So, in the end Indian companies will be delivering 5th gen avionics for the PAKFA/FGFA.
35???

i must be living under a rock, I still thought we had had just 25%. What comprises our share? Avionics and composites, anything else?
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
^^^

You mean France will provide the 360 degree radar capability. :lol:

I don't mind using French avionics, but then we are working with the Israelis on this front. When HAL was awarded 35% of work share for PAKFA this will surely include all the stuff that we are building with Israeli help at places like BEL and DARE.

So, in the end Indian companies will be delivering 5th gen avionics for the PAKFA/FGFA.
What, you haven't heard? The 360 L-band talked about on PAK FA was not reality. It will have standard forward radar only. As we found out in the special audit by MoD, R&D funds go to Israel for them to develop old technology that is only shared with India and no ownership rights. How is that helping Indian companies move forward? After the leak and corruption charges, business with Israel is going to go way down.

In the end the only one that can still deliver is France.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
What, you haven't heard? The 360 L-band talked about on PAK FA was not reality. It will have standard forward radar only.
There is no L band radar. There is only L band IFF and that will be there on the wing edges. It is already developed.

360 degree radar is a different thing.

Delays and challenges for Indo-Russian fighter
A key IAF requirement is a '360-degree' AESA (airborne electronically scanned active) radar, rather than the AESA radar that Russia developed.
As we found out in the special audit by MoD, R&D funds go to Israel for them to develop old technology that is only shared with India and no ownership rights. How is that helping Indian companies move forward?
This we will see. The Israelis still don't have something better than the Phalcon, EL/W 2090. They are still one step behind what we have. It all depends on our requirements though. If they won't provide then no business for them.

But I am not familiar with this report. Any link?

In the end the only one that can still deliver is France.
This we will see too.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
35???

i must be living under a rock, I still thought we had had just 25%. What comprises our share? Avionics and composites, anything else?
I was typing with a rock. It is 25%.

We can only provide avionics and stuff. The last we heard the mission computer is our work. Obviously the cockpit is ours. Composites, we will see. Internal EW suite will be our own too for obvious reasons.
 

EzioAltaïr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
Do you have a source for this?? I remember someone from RAF once claimed that EFT had defeated MKI in combat exercises. Rafale is of similar or better technology

Also, If MKI is better than Rafale, why didn't we just go for more MKIs in MMRCA???
EFT had defeated MKI!! 0_0

No, I don't remember any such thing happening.
 

EzioAltaïr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
I was typing with a rock. It is 25%.

We can only provide avionics and stuff. The last we heard the mission computer is our work. Obviously the cockpit is ours. Composites, we will see. Internal EW suite will be our own too for obvious reasons.
For a second I thought we actually had a bigger share.

Great! I have one question though. Our share is in the FGFA not the PAK FA right? Will the Russian AF use FGFAs as well, or will they out of pure nationalism, stick with the PAK?
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
EFT had defeated MKI!! 0_0

No, I don't remember any such thing happening.
Yeah, if the British Air Chief is to be believed.

It was as though he was making a pitch for the MRCA program.

'British Typhoons whacked India's Sukhois in joint exercises' | TwoCircles.net

For a second I thought we actually had a bigger share.
The 25% is not written in stone. IAF may decide to change somethings depending on how things go in the future. In such large projects you never know what may happen.

Great! I have one question though. Our share is in the FGFA not the PAK FA right? Will the Russian AF use FGFAs as well, or will they out of pure nationalism, stick with the PAK?
Our version will be exported, which means our version may end up being cheaper. It really depends on the Russians on what they want to do. They are not shying away from buying the MKIs too. They are calling it the Su-30SM, I think 30 were ordered.

But a lot of things that go into FGFA will have Indian IP rights. So, they will have to pay us licence fees for it. Not worth the effort if they already have the PAKFA. They may go for their own equivalent development. In the end the FGFA will be more advanced than the PAKFA.
 

EzioAltaïr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
257
Likes
74
Yeah, if the British Air Chief is to be believed.

It was as though he was making a pitch for the MRCA program.

'British Typhoons whacked India's Sukhois in joint exercises' | TwoCircles.net
Is there any source countering this claim?



The 25% is not written in stone. IAF may decide to change somethings depending on how things go in the future. In such large projects you never know what may happen.
Hope so.



Our version will be exported, which means our version may end up being cheaper. It really depends on the Russians on what they want to do. They are not shying away from buying the MKIs too. They are calling it the Su-30SM, I think 30 were ordered.
The exports of FGFA is what puzzles me the most. We plane to have 250 FGFAs, and Russia will have 250 PAK FAs. But they say, that the total of both aircraft is going to be close to a 1000, so that means 500 exports to non-participating countries. Which other country actually needs stealth fighters, except the ones that are already making them?

But a lot of things that go into FGFA will have Indian IP rights. So, they will have to pay us licence fees for it. Not worth the effort if they already have the PAKFA. They may go for their own equivalent development. In the end the FGFA will be more advanced than the PAKFA.
:yey:
 

DaTang

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
483
Likes
121
You guys ARE rich. China with an economy 4 times of that of India, still be dwarfed by your ambitious military procurement.


India to spend Rs 2 lakh crore over 10 years to boost airpower - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: India will spend over Rs 2 lakh crore (upwards of $35 billion) over the next 10 years to boost its air combat power to counter any threats to its territorial integrity as well as protect its expanding geopolitical interests.

While IAF's acquisition programmes have been well-documented — ranging from 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to over 200 futuristic 5th generation stealth fighters — the deputy chief of air staff Air Marshal R K Sharma put a figure to it on Thursday.

Speaking at a seminar on "Energizing the Aerospace Industry in India" here, Air Marshal Sharma said IAF plans to spend Rs 2 lakh crore on capital procurements during the 12th (2012-2017) and 13th (2017-2022) Plans while underlining the "huge potential" for the private sector to work in the defence sector.

Incidentally, this comes after Navy's ongoing warship, submarine and maritime aircraft acquisition programmes as well as proposed projects over the next 15 years were pegged at over Rs 3 lakh crore, as was first reported by TOI earlier.

The IAF figure may also sound "staggering" to some, but it's "a question of simple mathematics". With the norm being a 12%-15% hike in IAF's capital outlay every year, it already stands at Rs 30,514 crore for this fiscal.

Taking annual budgets over the two five-year Plan periods into account, and subtracting the amounts for capital works, the Rs 2 lakh crore figure seems conservative. "Moreover, it's for not just new acquisitions but also committed liabilities or installments for deals already inked," said a senior officer.

With both China and Pakistan bolstering their air forces, IAF certainly needs well-planned systematic inductions of fighters and helicopters, mid-air refuellers and transport planes, spy and combat drones, surface-to-air missiles and advanced radars.

Despite airpower being critical in winning modern wars, IAF is down to just 33-34 fighter squadrons (each has 12 to 18 jets) due to progressive phasing out of virtually obsolete MiGs. It will not be able to achieve its "sanctioned strength" of 39.5 squadrons even by 2017 despite needing at least 44 squadrons for "robust dissuasive deterrence" against China and Pakistan.

IAF is heavily banking upon the almost $20 billion MMRCA project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters to plug gaps, apart from the ongoing phased induction of 270 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for around $12 billion.

With final commercial negotiations underway, the MMRCA contract is likely to be inked by mid-2013. The first 18 jets will come in "fly-away condition" from France from 2016 onwards, while the rest 108 will subsequently be manufactured under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited over six years.

For the long-term, IAF is looking to induct over 200 of the 5th Gen swing-role fighters from 2022 onwards. India and Russia will ink the $11 billion full design R&D contract for them within six months, with each chipping in with $5.5 billion. India will eventually spend around $35 billion on this futuristic fighter project over the next 15-20 years, with each jet to be subsequently produced costing over $100 million.


This number seems low PAK-FA alone will be over 30 billion (300 planes)
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
You guys ARE rich. China with an economy 4 times of that of India, still be dwarfed by your ambitious military procurement.
You guys are rich... oh wait, you guys are broke! With high debt, fake GDP over-reported by 20-25%, a recession and unruly population... lets see how it goes. :shocked:
 

DaTang

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
483
Likes
121
Definitely, broke as the world largest debter. Japan will fall like us next, since they are the second place.

While India still got nutured by its Motherland- England, will be able to continue the acquiring of expensive toys with foreign aids :)


You guys are rich... oh wait, you guys are broke! With high debt, fake GDP over-reported by 20-25%, a recession and unruly population... lets see how it goes. :shocked:
 

drkrn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,455
Likes
902
Is there any source countering this claim?





Hope so.





The exports of FGFA is what puzzles me the most. We plane to have 250 FGFAs, and Russia will have 250 PAK FAs. But they say, that the total of both aircraft is going to be close to a 1000, so that means 500 exports to non-participating countries. Which other country actually needs stealth fighters, except the ones that are already making them?



:yey:
may be 25 yrs down the time many countries would be willing to spend money for these jets.by then our requirements may be fulfilled
 

trackwhack

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,589
Definitely, broke as the world largest debter. Japan will fall like us next, since they are the second place.

While India still got nutured by its Motherland- England, will be able to continue the acquiring of expensive toys with foreign aids :)
Shows how much you know about economics. Japan owes all its debt to its own people. Not to external sources. So dont talk trash.
 

chase

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
553
Likes
539
Definitely, broke as the world largest debter. Japan will fall like us next, since they are the second place.

While India still got nutured by its Motherland- England, will be able to continue the acquiring of expensive toys with foreign aids :)
And great super rich mighty China used to take aid till 2008.

Ofcourse you idiot ,the aid is meant to NGO's and not government.But oops i forgot this is the Communist China where there is no such thing as 'Non Government' ....if you dont fall in line with the government then get yourself thrown into 're-education schools' :namaste:
 

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
You guys ARE rich. China with an economy 4 times of that of India, still be dwarfed by your ambitious military procurement.
It is good sign if India implements that military procurement plan.

China needs to give India constant pressure so that it keeps on investing its precious and limited resource on military buildup, especially on expensive foreign weapon. There on better way than that to bring down India.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top