India to send back Sri Lankan Air Force trainees, China Sri Lanka bhai bhai

Oracle

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I think you are completely incapable of an objective discussion. Moreover, you are deluded, and turning obnoxious.

Anyway, you are completely wrong, and either misinformed, or brainwashed.
+1 ^ infinity.
 

hit&run

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During the war, the propaganda spewed in some Tamil channels were that India had given Tanks to the SLankan Army to kill innocent Tamils. :rotflmao:
And what is your point.

India assisted them is a fact, what kind of assistance they would need in a war which ended up killing civilians in that large scale is anyone's guess. Rumours are normal thing and those who are ponded with artillery shells will say and do many things including propaganda with a hope that some thing will deter those who are supporting those armies pounding them indiscriminately.
 
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ice berg

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What India can do, and should do, in case of Sri Lanka getting too cosy with PRC, is, (1) naval blockade, or (2) aerial raids.
Good luck with that. :rofl:
If naval blockade and aerial raids is all it takes to distance countries from PRC.:rolleyes:
I will love to see India doing blockades and aerial raids against all countries who are cozy with China. :thumb:
 

pmaitra

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Good luck with that. :rofl:
If naval blockade and aerial raids is all it takes to distance countries from PRC.:rolleyes:
I will love to see India doing blockades and aerial raids against all countries who are cozy with China. :thumb:
India is already drawing up plans to block the Straight of Malacca.
 

KS

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LTTE did not need to be a party to the accord. The very casus belli for the existence of LTTE was addressed by the accord. Prabhakaran was a megalonamiac, and he wanted his own fiefdom in Northern Sri Lanka. No wonder he used every opportunity to massacre cadres of rival Tamil groups, which act is convenienty ignored by some.

Read above. Why should they not lay down arms, as per the accord, if SL was going to give the rights that LTTE was fighting for? Any answers? Or are you going to keep up the bogeyman of 'not party to the agreement.' India did not intervene to further Prabhakaran's megalomaniac agenda; India intervened to establish peace, that is why IPKF, where P stands for peace.
[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

There were two parties locked in dispute in Lanka -- SInhalese represented by the Lankan Govt and Tamils whose fighting force were the Tigers. India -- the mediating force as the pre-eminent power in the region.

Common sense dictates that all three should have sit down and hammered out an accord resulting in Tamils achieving their rights and consequently LTTE disarming [that part is debatable as one can say to maintain that devolution you needed a fighting force]. That you could not understand that simple thing shows the hollowness in your thinking. The point is simple - unless one is no party to an accord, he is not bound by the terms of the accord.



Justification of LTTE's backstabbing. Nice.
Unvarnished truth - as it is. That you are not able to handle it is not my concern.


I think you are completely incapable of an objective discussion. Moreover, you are deluded, and turning obnoxious.

Anyway, you are completely wrong, and either misinformed, or brainwashed.
Do I sense a cop-out ?
 
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Oracle

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And what is your point.

India assisted them is a fact, what kind of assistance they would need in a war which ended up killing civilians in that large scale is anyone's guess. Rumours are normal thing and those who are ponded with artillery shells will say and do many things including propaganda with a hope that some thing will deter those who are supporting those armies pounding them indiscriminately.
Point is that propaganda has brainwashed many. They are not able to differentiate between what is real and what is not. India's assistance has been that of intelligence and naval blockade of LTTE who were trying to escape to India, which again was a smart thing to do, for we don't need anymore terrorists in India.
 

pmaitra

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And what is your point.

India assisted them is a fact, what kind of assistance they would need in a war which ended up killing civilians in that large scale is anyone's guess. Rumours are normal thing and those who are ponded with artillery shells will say and do many things including propaganda with a hope that some thing will deter those who are supporting those armies pounding them indiscriminately.
India armed the LTTE, because India had its own interests as well. India would never have been comfortable with a not so friendly SL, who even helped Pakistan during 1971-72 war. Even if there was no TN lobby in India, India would have, in all likelihood, done that.

The lesson to draw form here is, "fight your own war; don't use proxies - because proxies turn into Frankensteins."
 

Tolaha

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IPKF committed massive HR abuses in their quest to 'disarm' the LTTE and it was natural LTTE fought against them with all the help they can get.
All your arguments against any body working against Tamilians - IPKF against LTTE, Chalukyans against Cholans, STF against Veerappan!!! - are all based on your unflinching belief of the occurrence of HR violations (the lusty outsiders just waiting to rape, murder and pillage the just and innocent Tamilians)!

Different places, different times, different people but the exact same argument!
 

Oracle

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India armed the LTTE, because India had its own interests as well. India would never have been comfortable with a not so friendly SL, who even helped Pakistan during 1971-72 war. Even if there was no TN lobby in India, India would have, in all likelihood, done that.

The lesson to draw form here is, "fight your own war; don't use proxies - because proxies turn into Frankensteins."
Yes. India helped LTTE because of the assistance SL offered to Pakistan in the 1971 war. That was to teach SLanka a lesson. India assisted the Mukti Bahini to rip Pakistan into two pieces. Facts. Not for the love of Tamils of SLanka or the Bengalis of Bangladesh.
 

KS

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All your arguments against any body working against Tamilians - IPKF against LTTE, Chalukyans against Cholans, STF against Veerappan!!! - are all based on your unflinching belief of the occurrence of HR violations (the lusty outsiders just waiting to rape, murder and pillage the just and innocent Tamilians)!

Different places, different times, different people but the exact same argument!
IPKF indulging in HR abuses is not my belief. It is a fact.

For starters you can google, Jaffna hospital massacre.

As I said my perspective of the Lankan war having interacted with the victims who came as refugees here is very different from people whose knowledge of this conflict is limited to papers and magazines.
 
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Oracle

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All your arguments against any body working against Tamilians - IPKF against LTTE, Chalukyans against Cholans, STF against Veerappan!!! - are all based on your unflinching belief of the occurrence of HR violations (the lusty outsiders just waiting to rape, murder and pillage the just and innocent Tamilians)!

Different places, different times, different people but the exact same argument!
Well said. :thumb:
 

Oracle

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IPKF indulging in HR abuses is not my belief. It is a fact.

For starters you can google, Jaffna hospital massacre.

As I said my perspective of the Lankan war having interacted with the victims who came as refugees here is very different from people whose knowledge of this conflict is limited to papers and magazines.
That was because the IPKF was fired upon from inside the Hospital. Innocent people were caught in a crossfire. You don't target the Indian Army and expect them not to return fire. And going by the propaganda doing the rounds, I would not be surprised if the LTTE themselves had killed those innocent people to tarnish the image of the Indian Army, since LTTE has killed many innocent SLankan Tamils too. They were butchers.
 

pmaitra

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Wrong.

There were two parties locked in dispute in Lanka -- SInhalese represented by the Lankan Govt and Tamils whose fighting force were the Tigers. India -- the mediating force as the pre-eminent power in the region.
LTTE was never the sole representative of SL Tamils, but yes, in a way, you are right - after all they did manage to eliminate other Tamil groups, especially those that were not militant groups.

Common sense dictates that all three should have sit down and hammered out an accord resulting in Tamils achieving their rights and consequently LTTE disarming [that part is debatable as one can say to maintain that devolution you needed a fighting force]. That you could not understand that simple thing shows the hollowness in your thinking.
Common sense dictates that since the very cause that LTTE was fighting against was addressed, that the LTTE laid down their arms, and not LTTE, but all Tamil groups' concerns were addressed. Who takes the first step? That is debatable. Most governments would first ask the non government entity to lay down arms, but you may disagree.

Unvarnished truth - as it is. That you are not able to handle it is not my concern.
I would be happy if you at least had some concern for the SL Tamil survivors, instead of justifying an evil entity.

If this civil war continued, many more SL Tamils would have been killed. I am happy, at least, the chance of something like that happening is slim.

You can look at the past and say anything you want, but I want to look towards the future. Safety and security for the SL Tamils, from their PoV, and prevention of a Chinese military base, from Indian PoV.

Romanticizng about LTTE, sorry, I cannot do that.

Do I sense a cop-out ?
I just don't want to respond to your language in kind.

I have much more respect for Rajiv Gandhi - because, he was Indian.
 

KS

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That was because the IPKF was fired upon from inside the Hospital. Innocent people were caught in a crossfire. You don't target the Indian Army and expect them not to return fire. And going by the propaganda doing the rounds, I would not be surprised if the LTTE themselves had killed those innocent people to tarnish the image of the Indian Army, since LTTE has killed many innocent SLankan Tamils too. They were butchers.
That is your opinion of how it could have happened. Not how it 'actually' happened. And as such you are entitled to your version of the story.
 

Oracle

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That is your opinion of how it could have happened. Not how it 'actually' happened. And as such you are entitled to your version of the story.
The first 3 sentences are correct. The last 2 are probably correct, the probability being 99% if one were to consider the ruthlessness of the LTTE dogs.
 

hit&run

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Point is that propaganda has brainwashed many. They are not able to differentiate between what is real and what is not. India's assistance has been that of intelligence and naval blockade of LTTE who were trying to escape to India, which again was a smart thing to do, for we don't need anymore terrorists in India.
India should have set pre conditions when providing any support to them that they will not act rouge and do the genocide of Tamils. India failed first like always because we were too cautious not to upset anyone with the same arguments like what Rajiv Gandhi did was to stop USA having a base. Secondly we failed to stop the genocide when it was happening, thirdly we failed to act clear and upfront when USA lead resolution was brought in at UNO.

The point I am trying to make is that India should stop bit.ch.ing around with its neighbour with half hearted approach, we should opt one clear policy (Which you favour or I favour, either). BTW I am not satisfied with few poster's analysis done by selective contexts picking not overall. The reality is that Congress-I has ----ed up with our long term approach for our relationship with Sri Lanka complementing to our national interests (eventually), now we both sides are not going to find one consensus how to go about it.
 

KS

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LTTE was never the sole representative of SL Tamils, but yes, in a way, you are right - after all they did manage to eliminate other Tamils groups, especially those that were not militant groups.

Common sense dictates that since the very cause that LTTE was fighting against was addressed, that the LTTE laid down their arms, and not LTTE, but all Tamil groups' concerns were addressed. Who takes the first step? That is debatable. Most governments would first ask the non government entity to lay down arms, but you may disagree.
Wrong choice of words -- It 'was not addressed'.

The issue they were fighting for was "going" to be addressed [notice the future tense, uncertainity] without their thought on the issue and based on mere promises without any action on the ground -- no guerilla group let alone LTTE was going to fall for that.

It was pre-posterous to expect the Lankans and India to decide on the fate of the Tamils without none of their representatives being a part of the accord to "decide their own fate" !!!


I would be happy if you at least had some concern for the SL Tamil survivors, instead of justifying an evil entity.
I have made it pretty clear -- that the LTTE were the lesser of the two evils for the people there.


If this civil war continued, many more SL Tamils would have been killed. I am happy, at least, the chance of something like that happening is slim.
Wrong -- a ceasefire could have stopped the fighting and found a political solution to the dispute. Now that the only counter force is not there, there would be no incentive to a political solution as well.


You can look at the past and say anything you want, but I want to look towards the future. Safety and security for the SL Tamils, from their PoV, and prevention of a Chinese military base, from Indian PoV.
That looks very lofty -- but it is a loftiness not rooted in ground.. And I am not looking at the past because I want to look at it -- but I wanted to correct the version of events that was being peddled.

Future depends on what happened in the past. Coming to that, no genuine re-conciliation can happen without a thorough accounting of the war crimes committed and a genuine political solution for the problem.

Regarding the chinese mil base - that is coming no matter how much the mandarins in Delhi kowtow before the Lankans. The chinese are not pouring billions into Hambantota just because they are a friend developing a commercial port for Lanka.
 

Ankit Purohit

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attention all ..... chau chau...... paki..... and .......sinhalassssss whatever, DONT MESS WITH INDIA IF YOU WILL ,WE

PROMISE YOU....... WE FIX YOUR


APPOINTMENT WITH GOD.


Hindustan Zindabaad ,Long Live India
 
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KS

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I have much more respect for Rajiv Gandhi - because, he was Indian.
Indira Gandhi was Indian too and she perhaps did much more for India than Rajiv -- I'm pretty sure not all 'Indians' like her.
 

Bhadra

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The issue is being debated in the context of Tamil Political Parties Vs Congress rather than in objective manner of "Needs for a Solution of SL Tamil Problem".
 

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