India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO

[esolve]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

It is a good news but i hope people will keep Environment and Nature in mind before they try to meddle with it, I have been to Taiwan and SOuth Korea and the Environment there is very good, we can sure learn something from them.

in history, their environment has been terrible, now they have past that phase.

 

[esolve]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

the industrialization you had in Korea and Taiwan isn't the same as the one you will get, theirs one have principally a capital factor more than a workforce one, unluckly the kind of industry you will get will be the one that has destroyed China environment and that now is moving further to more technological products (like Huawei) and global brands .

To be honest if I had outsourced in China i would be moving to vietnam that has more "social stability" than India.

You are wrong, Taiwan and South Korea has also gone through the period of low-wage-labor-intensive factories and environment damages.
But they have past that relatively sooner due to small population

 

[Meriv90]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

You are wrong, Taiwan and South Korea has also gone through the period of low-wage-labor-intensive factories and environment damages.
But they have past that relatively sooner due to small population

Thanks for the correction. And welcome on the forum ;-)

 

[no smoking]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Indian infrastructure will need to be replaced from top to bottom. That's a trillion dollar project.
India's best bet is to focus on some specialized high-end manufacturing, services and design.

These "Specialized high-end manufacturing, services and design" can only provide couple of millions job positions, which will leave the majority of your labor force in the blue.

 

[esolve]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

India is not going to replace China as the low-cost manufacturing hub of the world. This is just some condescending BS from the Samsung CEO.
Its true that India really needs the jobs......but the population density, crappy infrastructure, and degraded environment, resources issues like water supply, etc will make this impossible.

The only reason China could do what it did in the last 30 years is because they sacrificed a whole generation of slave labor and entire environment with the absolute dictatorship of the CCP.
That's not an option for India.

Indian infrastructure will need to be replaced from top to bottom. That's a trillion dollar project.
India's best bet is to focus on some specialized high-end manufacturing, services and design.

I'm wondering what is the high-end maunufacturing in India.

 

[mattster]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Sometimes India really boggles my mind...
When you have a population of 1 billion people - either the private sector or the government should be able to develop industries like Home appliances, Networking equipment, Industrial machinery, etc.

For instance - why can't India develop an Indian equivalent of Huawei or Cisco ?

Isn't it amazing that there is not a single networking hardware manufacturer in India other than the small Tejas Networks.
You already have a huge captive market.......so even if you are not internationally competitive for a few years.....you can still develop your business thru government contracts.
These are the types of industries that would provide thousands of jobs, both blue and white collar.

India needs hardware manufacturing but not the type of low-end stuff with razor thin margins like cell-phones or PCs.
India will never be competitive in that kinda market.
It needs smaller companies that make industrial systems that cost more and can deliver bigger margins.

 

[esolve]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Sometimes India really boggles my mind...
When you have a population of 1 billion people - either the private sector or the government should be able to develop industries like Home appliances, Networking equipment, Industrial machinery, etc.

For instance - why can't India develop an Indian equivalent of Huawei or Cisco ?

Isn't it amazing that there is not a single networking hardware manufacturer in India other than the small Tejas Networks.
You already have a huge captive market.......so even if you are not internationally competitive for a few years.....you can still develop your business thru government contracts.
These are the types of industries that would provide thousands of jobs, both blue and white collar.

India needs hardware manufacturing but not the type of low-end stuff with razor thin margins like cell-phones or PCs.
India will never be competitive in that kinda market.
It needs smaller companies that make industrial systems that cost more and can deliver bigger margins.

high-end manufacturing only provides a few jobs with regard to the huge population. E.g, Huawei only provides like 0.2-0.3 million jobs.
Ah, ok, it can also bring about some upstream or downstream companies. But I guess, totally no more than 1 million jobs.
So, huge countries like China and India have to have low-end manufacturing factories, purely for providing jobs.

 

[nimo_cn]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

sweatshop
ˈswɛtʃɒp/Submit
noun
a factory or workshop, especially in the clothing industry, where manual workers are employed at very low wages for long hours and under poor conditions.
"the situation is similar to migrant workers in sweatshops"

In a totalitarian country, working conditions and wages can be manipulated to suit the totalitarian country's economic agenda to rise not peacefully, but dramatically so as to conquer the world.

That is not feasible in the free world where democratic norms prevail. There are labour unions, labour laws and laws that govern mandatory obligation to the social sector.

India, as you are aware, is a part of the free world and a vibrant democracy.

It is in the 'unorganised sector' that sweatshops exist basically the micro-businesses.

Even for this 'unorganised sector' labour laws are being changed to ensure that 'sweatshops' are things of the past.

Yes, it is for competitive labour and input costs, the industry is shifting to India and other SE Asian countries. And why should they not? The industrial owners are there for profits and not philanthropy.

The Chinese, having savoured unbridled cash, have raised their bar too high in their aspirations for personal gains.

As the Chinese proverb goes - There is no greater calamity than being consumed by greed. and "Love is blind, and greed insatiable".

The word 'competitive' is not a fancy word I am using. It is common place in economics.

Democracy,labor laws, labor unions, whatever you call them, none of them stop Indians from being paid less to get the job done, that is the reason why the industry is shifting to India.

And Chinese workers are gettings higher wages even in a totalitarian China where working conditions and wages are manipulated as you put it.

So what is the point of being a democracy, so that people are free to work at lower wage?

In the case of India, being cheap is being competitive.

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[Ray]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Democracy,labor laws, labor unions, whatever you call them, none of them stop Indians from being paid less to get the job done, that is the reason why the industry is shifting to India.

Is that not the very reason why industry flocked to China?

So, why the angst?

Sour grapes?

And Chinese workers are gettings higher wages even in a totalitarian China where working conditions and wages are manipulated as you put it.

Indeed they should have got higher wages than what they got, if China was a democracy with labour laws, trade unions etc.

Even without protection of labour rights, the Chinese workers used to protest which was put down by using the Police.

The Challenge of Labour in China: Strikes
The Challenge of Labour in China: Strikes and the Changing Labour Regime in ... - Chris King-chi Chan - Google Books

So what is the point of being a democracy, so that people are free to work at lower wage?

So, what was the point of the Chinese workers going on strike to be struck down by the Chinese police?

Wages are relative to the overall wages in the country and skills. Or else, why should unskilled workers not be paid so high as an airline pilot?

In the case of India, being cheap is being competitive.

I understand your angst that the dream bubble is bursting in China and you will be down on your knees.

Hence, juvenile rants that being competitive is being cheap.

It is also an indication of your poor grasp of the English syntax.

 

[Illusive]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Sometimes India really boggles my mind...
When you have a population of 1 billion people - either the private sector or the government should be able to develop industries like Home appliances, Networking equipment, Industrial machinery, etc.

For instance - why can't India develop an Indian equivalent of Huawei or Cisco ?

Isn't it amazing that there is not a single networking hardware manufacturer in India other than the small Tejas Networks.
You already have a huge captive market.......so even if you are not internationally competitive for a few years.....you can still develop your business thru government contracts.
These are the types of industries that would provide thousands of jobs, both blue and white collar.

India needs hardware manufacturing but not the type of low-end stuff with razor thin margins like cell-phones or PCs.
India will never be competitive in that kinda market.
It needs smaller companies that make industrial systems that cost more and can deliver bigger margins.

Sometimes it boggles me that why don't people just google stuff instead of showing their ignorance.

Let me give you a few names from the back of my mind................L&T, BEML, Videocon, TATA, Jaipan etc.

India lags in semiconductor and chip manufacturing, which will improving on.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/2-chip-plants-worth-Rs-63k-cr-okayed/articleshow/30420580.cms

If you had said why India doesn't have a google or a youtube equivalent, then it boggles me too.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Democracy,labor laws, labor unions, whatever you call them, none of them stop Indians from being paid less to get the job done, that is the reason why the industry is shifting to India.

And Chinese workers are gettings higher wages even in a totalitarian China where working conditions and wages are manipulated as you put it.

Cost of living is less compared to China in India because of development and all that took place in China during the last Decade. Cost of living in Cities is directly proportional to the wages. In India a daily wager can earn less than Chinese and can live comfortably.

So what is the point of being a democracy, so that people are free to work at lower wage?

People can change the Govt. officials or politicians who are not performing well, through vote. Ordinary people can criticize system, management or administration, can expose the corrupt politicians or fight against a bad law.

In China these things cannot be done, management treat the daily wagers as a resource and always try to extract as much work as they can. There are numerous cases in which the workers are not paid minimum wages, not entitled with leaves, Bad timings and no health care in China. In India People have freedom to fight if they feel offended.

In the case of India, being cheap is being competitive.

This is the mantra of Chinese , India is giving priority to R&D, High end products and also quality at the same time. We do not follow imitate, copy and innovate cycle, we want to target quality.

 

[Ray]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

China is weeping since industry is abandoning them and the economic pizazz is bursting.

Hence, the agony and the angst.

Peaceful rise to Peaceful demise!

Ouch!


And it hurts our Chinese posters who have been 'showcasing' China on our threads.

Life is such a Ping and a Pong, Ting and a Tong and Li and a Pee and so on.

 

[Meriv90]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

China is weeping since industry is abandoning them and the economic pizazz is bursting.

Hence, the agony and the angst.

Peaceful rise to Peaceful demise!

Ouch!


And it hurts our Chinese posters who have been 'showcasing' China on our threads.

Life is such a Ping and a Pong, Ting and a Tong and Li and a Pee and so on.

Ray they are not weeping, they are moving forward in the chain production and to me they look quite happy about it.
Who is weeping right now is Korea, have you seen what they are doing to Korean Chaebols?
Is Huawei Eating Samsung’s Lunch? - Digits - WSJ
And the assault is not coming only from the electronics, Chinese are moving forward in the shipyards segment too (that is the other main industry in Korea).

 

[Ray]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Ray they are not weeping, they are moving forward in the chain production and to me they look quite happy about it.
Who is weeping right now is Korea, have you seen what they are doing to Korean Chaebols?
Is Huawei Eating Samsung's Lunch? - Digits - WSJ
And the assault is not coming only from the electronics, Chinese are moving forward in the shipyards segment too (that is the other main industry in Korea).

That is why there are keen to move to India, where the labour is competitive and raw materials available.

Costs will go down for them and profits will soar.

 

[Compersion]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

The future is with innovation and quality and looking at industry that requires human participation. With robots and automation one does not need humans to "Manufacture". I honestly believe that everything can be manufactured without human touch and that is the ultimate quality achievement. Sure management of such is required but ultimately i believe automated manufacturing is what industry wants.

Sometime i wonder if American was stupid to give most of their 'human' manufacturing to others - was it because of cost. Sometimes I wonder American just did a update on their operating system and have the latest structure and it was smart. The average work force in America is not in manufacturing and that is not comparable to others. When i read about factory in USA i see machines making stuff and not humans. For example I wont be surprised if Apple Iphone start being made in USA in the near future because of high innovation and quality requirement. Also ask why American company selling to PRC company like Motorola. The cost of automated manufacturing is now probably near-abouts 'human' manufacturing. The advanced nations know manufacturing is not the specialty it is innovation and quality.

And the beautiful thing. I have not heard of a automation and computer that can programme and do software coding, consult, teach, patent, give advise and prescribe medicine. "Accidental Indian". The other requirement is consumer market and location for logistics and servicing.

 

[CrYsIs]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

having rich experience dealing with the so called Indian industries...i can say this dream is far fetched.....India doesn't even have the capability of manufacturing an LCD panel of a black and white cell phone and you dream of becoming another manufacturing hub...

 

[nimo_cn]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Is that not the very reason why industry flocked to China?

So, why the angst?

Sour grapes?



Indeed they should have got higher wages than what they got, if China was a democracy with labour laws, trade unions etc.

Even without protection of labour rights, the Chinese workers used to protest which was put down by using the Police.




So, what was the point of the Chinese workers going on strike to be struck down by the Chinese police?

Wages are relative to the overall wages in the country and skills. Or else, why should unskilled workers not be paid so high as an airline pilot?



I understand your angst that the dream bubble is bursting in China and you will be down on your knees.

Hence, juvenile rants that being competitive is being cheap.

It is also an indication of your poor grasp of the English syntax.

Yes, being cheap is the reason why China could attract investment, also the reason why India is attracting investment. I am pragmatic enough to admit that the advantage China used to enjoy, but you are too proud to admit the actual advantage India is enjoying.

Sour grapes are only for those who have no chance to taste it, like Indians used to be. When India enjoyed no labor cost advantage over China, you people kept running down the low end manufacturing industry in China, calling it "slave driven" as if India could do better.

Now India seems to be beating China in attracting investment in low end manufacturing business and the sweatshops are moving from China to India, suddenly Indians become the happiest men in the world.

Under the protection of law, Indian workers still have to work at a much lower wage than their Chinese counterparts, what is the point of being protected?

Do you understand what kind of guarantee a working labor needs the most? He needs to be get paid well, Being under paid is the most severe violation to the civil rights of workers.

Doing the same work, but Indian workers are going to be paid less than Chinese workers, that is the protection you are bragging about?

The original article states nothing about competitiveness of Indian labor, but the low cost of employing them. Simply put it, Indians are cheap. As much as you attempt to pass it off as something else with elegant words such as competitive, it wont change the fact.

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[Srinivas_K]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Yes, being cheap is the reason why China could attract investment, also the reason why India is attracting investment. I am pragmatic enough to admit that the advantage China used to enjoy, but you are too proud to admit the actual advantage India is enjoying.

Sour grapes are only for those who have no chance to taste it, like Indians used to be. When India enjoyed no labor cost advantage over China, you people kept running down the low end manufacturing industry in China, calling it "slave driven" as if India could do better.

Now India seems to be beating China in attracting investment in low end manufacturing business and the sweatshops are moving from China to India, suddenly Indians become the happiest men in the world.

Under the protection of law, Indian workers still have to work at a much lower wage than their Chinese counterparts, what is the point of being protected?

Do you understand what kind of guarantee a working labor needs the most? He needs to be get paid well, Being under paid is the most severe violation to the civil rights of workers.

Doing the same work, but Indian workers are going to be paid less than Chinese workers, that is the protection you are bragging about?

The original article states nothing about competitiveness of Indian labor, but the low cost of employing them. Simply put it, Indians are cheap. As much as you attempt to pass it off as something else with elegant words such as competitive, it wont change the fact.

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You seem to be missing the point related to "cost of living" . Indians are targeting high end products along with manufacturing low cost products.

 

[Ray]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Yes, being cheap is the reason why China could attract investment, also the reason why India is attracting investment. I am pragmatic enough to admit that the advantage China used to enjoy, but you are too proud to admit the actual advantage India is enjoying.

Sour grapes are only for those who have no chance to taste it, like Indians used to be. When India enjoyed no labor cost advantage over China, you people kept running down the low end manufacturing industry in China, calling it "slave driven" as if India could do better.

Now India seems to be beating China in attracting investment in low end manufacturing business and the sweatshops are moving from China to India, suddenly Indians become the happiest men in the world.

Under the protection of law, Indian workers still have to work at a much lower wage than their Chinese counterparts, what is the point of being protected?

Do you understand what kind of guarantee a working labor needs the most? He needs to be get paid well, Being under paid is the most severe violation to the civil rights of workers.

Doing the same work, but Indian workers are going to be paid less than Chinese workers, that is the protection you are bragging about?

The original article states nothing about competitiveness of Indian labor, but the low cost of employing them. Simply put it, Indians are cheap. As much as you attempt to pass it off as something else with elegant words such as competitive, it wont change the fact.

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Out of your angst, you fail to read my post or fail to understand them.

I have not in anyway mentioned that the labour cost advantage and material cost advantage is not what is attracting industry to the Indian shores.

Yes, China does produce shoddy stuff and there is no doubt about that. And also well known for cutting corners for profit. Milk and meat products are facing embargoes.

it is not low end manufacturing that is attracting the Indian shores. High end is on the making. Once the FDI policy is spelt out progressively, what appears to be the Pandora's Box for China shall be exposed.

Wages are decided by the cost of living and that seems to fail your insight. I mentioned it, but you seem to have been caught in a brain freeze.

Indeed anyone knows what guarantees the labour requires. Of course, pay is a criterion, but to believe that wages in India should equal that in developed country, where the cost of living is high, is a rather inane and logic defying argument, as also indicates that you have no idea of economics and wages equation. And the most unique argument is that it is against human rights! Next you will say is that if people are not given the Moon, it would be a human rights violation!

Oh sure doing the same work one should get the same pay. You suggest that India should pay the same wages as in the US? Wages are commensurate to the PPP and not based on silly points made by you since you cannot debate with logic and coherence.

India is not cheap. It is competitive.

China is not only cheap, but is internationally known for shoddy goods, cutting corners for profits and whole lot of unethical activities to include stealing industrial secrets and passing it off as original Chinese.

 

[nimo_cn]

Re: India to be world's factory hub, says Samsung's president & CEO BD

Out of your angst, you fail to read my post or fail to understand them.

I have not in anyway mentioned that the labour cost advantage and material cost advantage is not what is attracting industry to the Indian shores.

Yes, China does produce shoddy stuff and there is no doubt about that. And also well known for cutting corners for profit. Milk and meat products are facing embargoes.

it is not low end manufacturing that is attracting the Indian shores. High end is on the making. Once the FDI policy is spelt out progressively, what appears to be the Pandora's Box for China shall be exposed.

Wages are decided by the cost of living and that seems to fail your insight. I mentioned it, but you seem to have been caught in a brain freeze.

Indeed anyone knows what guarantees the labour requires. Of course, pay is a criterion, but to believe that wages in India should equal that in developed country, where the cost of living is high, is a rather inane and logic defying argument, as also indicates that you have no idea of economics and wages equation. And the most unique argument is that it is against human rights! Next you will say is that if people are not given the Moon, it would be a human rights violation!

Oh sure doing the same work one should get the same pay. You suggest that India should pay the same wages as in the US? Wages are commensurate to the PPP and not based on silly points made by you since you cannot debate with logic and coherence.

India is not cheap. It is competitive.

China is not only cheap, but is internationally known for shoddy goods, cutting corners for profits and whole lot of unethical activities to include stealing industrial secrets and passing it off as original Chinese.

Low labor cost, low material cost, that is not cheap?

Competitive? Bullshit! Then why did India fail to attract foreign investment in the last 3 decades?

Only after Chinese wages are hiked, you Indians have got the chance, it further proves that investment is going to India for only one reason, Indians are cheap. For whatever reason you may list, you are cheap.

High end? Are you kidding? You expect what is moving out of China to be high end? Samsung set up a couple of factories in India, they are going to be high end? What high end have you got so far? Or as usual, you will have it IN THE FUTURE?

Yes, we produce shoddy goods, mostly for customers like Indians who want everything cheap. We also produce good quality stuff for those who could afford.

But Indians produce nothing. A country as big as India, you cant even make a decent rifle. It takes you 30+ years to develop a tank and an aircraft, yet they are not finished. How many years is your self made aircraft carrier behind the schedule?


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