India should recognize Tibetan freedom for its own good.

[redragon]

isn't that what is already happening? what would be different?

Trust me, you have not seem anything yet

 

[Vladimir79]

WE DON'T KNOW THAT, WHAT WE KNOW IS THE MAOIST WILL DEFINITLY RISE UP AGAINSE GOV IN LARGE NUMBERS IF WE GIVE THEM WEAPONS. AND SO IS Chechnya

You give weapons to Chechnya?? News to me. So you really are our enemy. :twizt:

 

[redragon]

You give weapons to Chechnya?? News to me. So you really are our enemy. :twizt:

big deal?? who cares about a splited country

 

[no smoking]

There is NO compromise. Our claim to Aksai Chin, and indeed P-O-K, is based on a legitimate, ratified instrument of secession signed by the rightful sovereign of the state at the time because Pakistan (foolishly) attempted to pre-empt its secession by an armed invasion. Your claim to Arun'aachal Pradesh is based on your illegal (de facto and procul vicis) occupation and invasion of Tibet. Furthermore, it is ostensibly on behalf of the Tibetan people, whose highest political and spiritual authority (ironically, deemed so by ancient chinese kings themselves during their inter-government transactions wit them, beginning with the militant Mongol Yuan dynasty that occupied China), have affirmed that "Arunaachal Pradesh is an indivisible part of India".

"illegal occupation"?
Defined by who? India?
Or Tibet? Sorry, when the tibet begged Qing gov's military inteference in its civil war and accepted Qing's authority over its internal and external affairs, it's already lost its resistence to any chinese occupation. Yes, it could claim its independence. But as long as no chinese gov accepts this claim, any occupation initiated by chinese gov would not be illegal.

 

[nimo_cn]

Singh, thanks for your kind advice, i am here to learn english.
Although i am a english learner, i still can differentiate independence from freedom.
By asking that question, i am reminding you that replacing independence with freedom in the title does not justify the discussion of this subject, it does't give you any moral high ground. Even you changed the title, it doesn't change the fact that recognizing the independence of Tibet is a gross interference in our internal affair, which is immoral.

btw, India can gain nothing by recognizing the independence of Tibet, and it will be in big trouble if India is reckless to do that, it is not for the good of India.

 

[Rage]

"illegal occupation"?
Defined by who? India?
Or Tibet? Sorry, when the tibet begged Qing gov's military inteference in its civil war and accepted Qing's authority over its internal and external affairs, it's already lost its resistence to any chinese occupation. Yes, it could claim its independence. But as long as no chinese gov accepts this claim, any occupation initiated by chinese gov would not be illegal.

Illegal.

de facto and procul vicis, even though it may not be ib idem de jure, that is not accepted by other governments, at the moment due to their realpolitik.

Return to this post to see how many governments recognized the sovereignty of Tibet, and the illegitimacy of its occupation by the Chinese forces procul vicis, that is in 1950:

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/96727-post116.html


As for the Qing military assistance, only the Chinese would spin a web like that to mean it to imply 'secession' and "sovereignty over its external and internal affairs". Sheesh, you are disgusting!


Did you not enlist the aid of your allies, the Turkic Uyghur Khanate, when the Tibetans were at the gates of the Tang capital Chang'an in 763 ? When they made major inroads into Chinese territory, and occupied Nanzaho in Yunan and the neighbouring regions for a period of 44 yrs ? Did you not enlist the aid of the Uyghurs when they captured and occupied Chang'an for 15 days in the winter of 763? By that measure then, you should be subservient, servile peasants of and to the Uighurs, who bailed you out in the face of certain Tibetan-imposed defeat, and far from occupying them, you have no right to remain of independent status without their suzerainty.

Copy me, m@#%cka?

 

[proud_hindustani]

Actually Tibet should be made an integral part of India. Tibetans don't like to be called a part of China.

 

[Vladimir79]

btw, India can gain nothing by recognizing the independence of Tibet, and it will be in big trouble if India is reckless to do that, it is not for the good of India.

India houses the Dalai Lama, that is a defacto recognition of the government in exile. Haven't you figured that out?

 

[redragon]

Actually Tibet should be made an integral part of India. Tibetans don't like to be called a part of China.

:stinker:
HAHA, I know this is what Indian really want, finally you leash out this idea from the bottom of your heart. It's funny you guys still faking you are for democrazy or freedom, blahblah...

 

[proud_hindustani]

:stinker:
HAHA, I know this is what Indian really want, finally you leash out this idea from the bottom of your heart. It's funny you guys still faking you are for democrazy or freedom, blahblah...

China - an arrogant country with prides in it's power and greed of lands. Arrogance and wrong use of power lead's to destruction, shame.This would surely happen to China again sometime in the future. China attacked on Tibet and won. They won because Tibetan army was not strong like you arrogant moron. You have always targeted weak nations, thinking they can't harm you. You invaded India in 1961 and won because India was not strong in 1961. Today you don't have the guts to invade India directly because you know India is not weak as it was in 1961. If you can scratch us, We too can scratch you. It doesn't matter to us if you have large quantity. It's always better to have quality over quantity. A great strategy and a great tactic is the main key to win the war. The war cannot be won by wrong use of power.

China behaves like an arrogant dictator and seeks a good opportunity to harness India.

Vietnam was not a strong country and yet your invasion of Vietnam put you to shame. Your army didn't win the war and returned home after getting shoe slaps on your face by Vietnamese army. Same happened to arrogant USA as well.

Arrogance + greed + misuse of power = self destruction

What can make China a good country is the fall of communism and establishment of peace-loving democratic party.

 

[redragon]

China - an arrogant country with prides in it's power and greed of lands. Arrogance and wrong use of power lead's to destruction, shame.This would surely happen to China again sometime in the future. China attacked on Tibet and won. They won because Tibetan army was not strong like you arrogant moron. You have always targeted weak nations, thinking they can't harm you. You invaded India in 1961 and won because India was not strong in 1961. Today you don't have the guts to invade India directly because you know India is not weak as it was in 1961. If you can scratch us, We too can scratch you. It doesn't matter to us if you have large quantity. It's always better to have quality over quantity. A great strategy and a great tactic is the main key to win the war. The war cannot be won by wrong use of power.

China behaves like an arrogant dictator and seeks a good opportunity to harness India.

Vietnam was not a strong country and yet your invasion of Vietnam put you to shame. Your army didn't win the war and returned home after getting shoe slaps on your face by Vietnamese army. Same happened to arrogant USA as well.

Arrogance + greed + misuse of power = self destruction

What can make China a good country is the fall of communism and establishment of peace-loving democratic party.

You know what, you guys should really go out of your box more, your comments are like from a teenager or someone who was totally brainwashed. Try to see things from different angles, that will help you to be mature and successful. I know by saying communism is the root cause for anything you don't like is political correctness but please, that sounds too stupid when you are only doing discussion on a web forum, those propaganda only work to people who can't access enough information.

 

[roma]

Thanks.

So, the only solution is both side make the compromise: china gives up the AP and india do the same on Aksai Chin. Can your parliament agree with this?

basically on the ground it is the position except that CPC wants more and that is usetting the already achieved peace and equilibrium

seems Chinas style, push for new territory, get a calm , then push for more.

 

[nimo_cn]

Actually Tibet should be made an integral part of India. Tibetans don't like to be called a part of China.

This just displays how greedy some indians are, doesnt it?
It seems the ambition of India has no limitation, which is really scaring me.

 

[Vladimir79]

It seems the ambition of India has no limitation, which is really scaring me.

Indian ambition for territory is only dreams. The leaders are too peace mongering. It is Chinese ambition which is real and should scare China's neighbours.

 

[proud_hindustani]

This just displays how greedy some indians are, doesnt it?
It seems the ambition of India has no limitation, which is really scaring me.

Chinese are even greedier. They want the land as much as possible. India never invaded on another country to snatch the land like you did.

 

[Ray]

This just displays how greedy some indians are, doesnt it?
It seems the ambition of India has no limitation, which is really scaring me.

Greedy?

Check Chinese history and see how you implanted imperialist ambitions beyond the Yellow River.

Chinese are unrepentant imperialists!

Wolf in sheep's clothing!

India has never attacked any country or grabbed land as Proud Hindustani has mentioned.

Time to smell the coffee and less of shrill false accusations! Your hands are soiled. Not India's!

The Han Dynasty (simplified Chinese: 汉朝; traditional Chinese: 漢朝; pinyin: Hàn Cháo; Wade-Giles: Han Ch'ao; 206 BCE–220 CE) was the second imperial dynasty of China, preceded by the Qin Dynasty (221–206 BCE) and succeeded by the Three Kingdoms (220–265 CE). It was founded by the peasant rebel leader Liu Bang, known posthumously as Emperor Gaozu of Han. It was briefly interrupted by the Xin Dynasty (9–23 CE) of the former regent Wang Mang. This interregnum separates the Han into two periods: the Western Han (206 BCE–9 CE) and Eastern Han (25–220 CE). Spanning over four centuries, the period of the Han Dynasty is considered a golden age in Chinese history.[1] To this day, China's majority ethnic group refers to itself as the "Han people".[2]

The Han Empire was divided into areas directly controlled by the central government, known as commanderies, and a number of semi-autonomous kingdoms. These kingdoms gradually lost all vestiges of their independence, particularly following the Rebellion of the Seven States. The Xiongnu, a nomadic confederation of Central Asian tribes[3] which dominated the eastern Eurasian Steppe, defeated the Han in battle in 200 BCE. Following the defeat a political marriage alliance was negotiated in which the Han became the de facto inferior partner. When, despite the treaty, the Xiongnu continued to raid Han borders, Emperor Wu of Han (r. 141–87 BCE) launched several military campaigns against them, which eventually forced the Xiongnu to accept vassal status as Han tributaries. These campaigns expanded Han sovereignty into the Tarim Basin of Central Asia, and helped establish the vast trade network known as the Silk Road, which reached as far as the Mediterranean world. Han forces managed to divide the Xiongnu into two competing nations, the Southern and Northern Xiongnu, and forced the Northern Xiongnu across the Ili River. Despite this victory, the territories north of Han's borders were quickly overrun by the nomadic Xianbei Confederation.

After 92 CE, the palace eunuchs increasingly involved themselves in court politics, engaging in violent power struggles between the various consort clans of the empresses and empress dowagers, causing the Han's ultimate downfall. Imperial authority was also seriously challenged by massive Daoist religious societies which instigated the Yellow Turban Rebellion and the Five Pecks of Rice Rebellion. Following the death of Emperor Ling (r. 168–189 CE), the palace eunuchs suffered wholesale massacre by military officers, allowing warlords to divide the empire. When Cao Pi, King of Wei, usurped the throne from Emperor Xian, the Han Dynasty ceased to exist.

The Han Dynasty was an age of economic prosperity, and saw a significant growth of the money economy first established during the Zhou Dynasty (c. 1050–256 BCE). The coinage issued by the central government mint in 119 BCE remained the standard coinage of China until the Tang Dynasty (618–907 CE). To pay for its military campaigns and the settlement of newly conquered frontier territories, the government nationalized the private salt and iron industries in 117 BCE. These government monopolies were repealed during the Eastern Han period, and the lost revenue was recouped through heavily taxing private entrepreneurs. The emperor was at the pinnacle of Han society. He presided over the Han government, but shared power with both the nobility and appointed ministers who came largely from the scholarly gentry class. From the reign of Emperor Wu onward, the Chinese court officially sponsored Confucianism in education and court politics, synthesized with the cosmology of later scholars such as Dong Zhongshu. This policy endured until the fall of the Qing Dynasty in 1911 CE. Science and technology during the Han period saw significant advances, including papermaking, the nautical steering rudder, the use of negative numbers in mathematics, the raised-relief map, the hydraulic-powered armillary sphere for astronomy, and a seismometer employing an inverted pendulum
Han Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pot calling the kettle black?

 

[roma]

This just displays how greedy some indians are, doesnt it?
It seems the ambition of India has no limitation, which is really scaring me.

i wish that were true

the big problem is the lack of vision

 

[nimo_cn]

Chinese are even greedier. They want the land as much as possible. India never invaded on another country to snatch the land like you did.

pround_hindustani, review what you have said about Tibet. Isn't it obvious you bear an outrageous ambition over Tibet which although has been recognized by your government as an integral part of China?

In fact, i find out many indians in this forum share the same idea with you, which means this idea has its mass base, hence it is very possible India will invade China to snatch Tibet someday in the future. If that is not greedy, then tell me what is greedy?

 

[nimo_cn]

Greedy?

Check Chinese history and see how you implanted imperialist ambitions beyond the Yellow River.

Chinese are unrepentant imperialists!

Wolf in sheep's clothing!

India has never attacked any country or grabbed land as Proud Hindustani has mentioned.

Time to smell the coffee and less of shrill false accusations! Your hands are soiled. Not India's!



Pot calling the kettle black?

I am not an expert in history, especially not good at the history of India.
And since you seem to swear to it that India has never attacked any country or grabbed land from other country, then i believe you before i do some research on this by myself.

But that you didn't do something in the past can't guarantee you won't do it in the future, right? It is possible you had the intention to invade other country to grab land in the past, but the lack of ability prevented you from doing that.

Now these remarks made by indians like Proud Hindustani have proved you have the intention. And as India is developing so fast, soon it will be a powerful country, then you have the ability. The combination of intention and ability finally will drive you to invade China and other countries.

And BTW, the proof you provide is really really unconvincing. History over 2000 years ago is used to prove your theory about modern China. Your creativity is beyond my imagination.

 

[proud_hindustani]

pround_hindustani, review what you have said about Tibet. Isn't it obvious you bear an outrageous ambition over Tibet which although has been recognized by your government as an integral part of China?

In fact, i find out many indians in this forum share the same idea with you, which means this idea has its mass base, hence it is very possible India will invade China to snatch Tibet someday in the future. If that is not greedy, then tell me what is greedy?

India always got invaded by Pakistan and once by China. India, a country that is peace - loving, has aspirations to make international friends for good, is unlikely to invade another country first.

When Pakistani had attacked on us, we had terrific battles against him. We gave great answers to him, grabbed his land "Lahore". After some time later, Pakistan surrendered, he was a cry baby and began to ask us to return his land. We forgave him and returned his land but Pakistan still didn't change. " A dog's tail never get straight"

We are not :twizt: like you who deliberately stabbed on our back and snatch our property "Arunachal Pradesh" and making false claims that property belongs to you.

China can be a good friend if he abandons a false claims over Arunachal Pradesh and solve the problem over disputed border with us, and lead a peaceful and friendly relation with us.

As Pakistan is concerned, he is already on the path of self ruination.