India says UNSC should have 25 members

[SPIEZ]

It is not about who shuld get it. It is all about the price you pay. India can only get its permanent seat by paying a price instead of talking.

You may don't like it. But the truth is India alone cannot set up another international organisation. US can do that alone, China and Russia combination can, but india can't.

Err! What do you think is stopping them ?????

 

[panduranghari]

measured by power and economy,India in 1947 deserved a veto more than india in 2012.

after all ,in 1947, India had a bigger economy and industry base than any other country ,except USA,Soviet, UK, France,German ,Italy and Japan.

However, even S.korea,Spain, Canada,Brazil has a bigger economy and industry base than India....the list has become longer....

No. You are not correct.

South Korean industry is multi faceted.

Not so with Spain, Canada and Brazil.

You make statements without any concrete evidence. You just write things and hope no one really digs the data out.

According to the current GDP data and deducting the deficits, Indian economy has overtaken everyone except USA and China. It is the only economy which depends on its growth by internal consumption. Externally technology, gold and petrol are the things India imports.

Compared to this China needs to export to keep the engine running. Thats true for all the countries except brazil, Russia and South Africa.

 

[panduranghari]

But all in the list is going to be way behind in a handful of years.

You can say what you want, India with its population that is hungry to get rich and working its way up cannot be stopped.

Remember we are only 10 years behind you.

Bhaisahab,

Do not go by what you read in the media. Indian media copies from western media who themselves are paid shills of the wall street. they speak of things which they do not really know about.

I am not making this statement showing I know anything secret. But I have actually spent the past 3 years studying the Euro system right from its beginning. Every talking head says Euro is going to collapse etc. Its all BS. Time will prove it.

Similarly, when people say India is 10 years behind China is not true. We have done things our way.

China cannot have the cake and eat it too. An authoritarian state can do wonders, look at China. But the people do not have the freedom to express dissent. How can such a country be ahead of India. A country can be ahead of another on one aspect e.g. GDP. But thats just 1 parameter. As a sum total

India=China.

If China has to become greater then it has to embrace freedom of expression. Until then we are equals.

 

[badguy2000]

Bhaisahab,

Do not go by what you read in the media. Indian media copies from western media who themselves are paid shills of the wall street. they speak of things which they do not really know about.

I am not making this statement showing I know anything secret. But I have actually spent the past 3 years studying the Euro system right from its beginning. Every talking head says Euro is going to collapse etc. Its all BS. Time will prove it.

Similarly, when people say India is 10 years behind China is not true. We have done things our way.

China cannot have the cake and eat it too. An authoritarian state can do wonders, look at China. But the people do not have the freedom to express dissent. How can such a country be ahead of India. A country can be ahead of another on one aspect e.g. GDP. But thats just 1 parameter. As a sum total

India=China.

If China has to become greater then it has to embrace freedom of expression. Until then we are equals.

hehe,
frankly speaking, until one revolution were to happen in India, reform the social structure of india ,and liberate most of indian labours from mentality of outdated and decayed hierarchy and mid-age castes, India would have no change to finish industrialization ,let alone catch up with CHIna.

India today is just a modern version of Later Manchurian Qing empire.

Who can change India is not a guy like Gandhi, but a guy like Mao....

 

[Mad Indian]

BadGuy/Nosmoking,

Read up comments by Yusuf and Sukhish. You folks have really not commented on their observations. Do you accept that China was in far worse situation than India is now, when China was "allowed" into P5?

When China was allowed inside the UN, it had 1000 time bigger guts than India ever had in international politics

 

[pmaitra]

India's long term goal should to the eventual ejection of PRC, if not stripping it of its veto. In the immediate future, India should try to dilute PRC's influence by getting a few more like minded powers as permanent members with veto power for each, into UNSC.

 

[sukhish]

India's long term goal should to the eventual ejection of PRC, if not stripping it of its veto. In the immediate future, India should try to dilute PRC's influence by getting a few more like minded powers as permanent members with veto power for each, into UNSC.

India will create it's own space. Prc won't does not even have 30 votes in the entire council in it's favor.

 

[badguy2000]

India will create it's own space. Prc won't does not even have 30 votes in the entire council in it's favor.

the council of UN is just a valueless rubber stamp. the real power of UN lies in UNSC while P5 of UNSC can not allow their real power to be diluted....

 

[sukhish]

the council of UN is just a valueless rubber stamp. the real power of UN lies in UNSC while P5 of UNSC can not allow their real power to be diluted....

Powers will be diluted one way or other.

 

[pmaitra]

The P5 today have the veto because they have displayed and executed power and politics judiciously. No county, when powerless, should expect a free ticket into the UNSC Veto Club.

India should simply focus on strengthening its economy while keeping a good military capable of repelling the kinds of threats it is likely to face. This veto power and permanent membership in P5 is not going to be served in a platter. India has to coerce the others, by economic force (or otherwise - and war isn't something I would recommend).

 

[Yusuf]

When China was allowed inside the UN, it had 1000 time bigger guts than India ever had in international politics

Rhetorical statement. China was given a favor for being raped, looted, butchered by the Japanese. It was just a default. Just because it got millions of its citizens killed.

Even France was a default power though it was under occupation throughout the world war. UN was a victors organization.

 

[badguy2000]

Rhetorical statement. China was given a favor for being raped, looted, butchered by the Japanese. It was just a default. Just because it got millions of its citizens killed.

Even France was a default power though it was under occupation throughout the world war. UN was a victors organization.

doesn't the current world situation prove the longsight of UN's founders?

If CHIna were not one of P5,and UN could not get help from CHina while dealing with hotspots such as N.KOrea, Iran and others, we would find how disable UN were !

 

[pmaitra]

doesn't the current world situation prove the longsight of UN's founders?

If CHIna were not one of P5,and UN could not get help from CHina while dealing with hotspots such as N.KOrea, Iran and others, we would find how disable UN were !

If and buts are useful in extending an argument beyond the reality.

• What if the Mensheviks won against the Bolsheviks?
• What if the USSR did not help the Chinese?
• What if the USSR nuked PRC in 1969 or 1971?

If any of the above were true, PRC of today would not have existed.

There are plenty of ifs here.

The fact is PRC has got the veto and can use it. However, that veto won't help PRC if it faces boycott from most of the influential countries in the world. PRC needs to take care not to upset too many of these countries.

 

[amoy]

dear , would u pls enlarge your scope a little bit? pls, don't get obsessed with China disproportionately. Anyway India is not going to dilute influence of China alone. There're other P5 who may have served India a lip service but would face the same "diluting' while China stands for only 1 vote.

It hasn't even come to China's turn on India's fantasy of becoming a permanent UNSC seat (with/without veto power).

Ooops, India says UNSC should have 25 members

 

[pmaitra]

India might as well work on making the UNSC irrelevant. Just like the USSR went around rampaging without giving a tuppence about what the rest of the world thought. That is the main idea. If rest of the world get annoyed with PRC, PRC will simply face a boycott. No need to fight a war, that boycott alone will crush PRC's backbone.

I hope you do realize that!

 

[amoy]

What ? the rest of world annoyed with China and even a boy cott?

Off topic but pls do a drill-down, for instance, in your/our near circles,
1) in South Asia who're India's lesser peers get most annoyed with? India or China?
2) inside ASEAN, which members are annoyed with China, which members are standing on the sidelines, and which are even pro China?

Then elaborate how India is able to make UNSC irrelevant (case study: Libya, and Syria), or India in fact is irrelevant to them

 

[pmaitra]

What ? the rest of world annoyed with China and even a boy cott?

Off topic but pls do a drill-down, for instance, in your/our near circles,
1) in South Asia who're India's lesser peers get most annoyed with? India or China?
2) inside ASEAN, which members are annoyed with China, which members are standing on the sidelines, and which are even pro China?

Then elaborate how India is able to make UNSC irrelevant (case study: Libya, and Syria), or India in fact is irrelevant to them

Why don't you answer your questions? Then we can tally notes.

 

[pmaitra]

Relations with peripheral and littoral states (India and PRC)

Useful links, Amoy. It answers a lot of your questions.

List of territorial disputes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Territorial disputes in the South China Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now bring in alliances some of these countries might have with the west.

 

[no smoking]

China got its seat when it was worse off than what India is today.

Yes, China itself was worse off than what india is today. But, China still paid its price: all the money, weapons and aids went to those african, asian and south american third world countries. What did india do in past 10 years? How many countries has india bought off?
How much has india paid to those coutries each year?


Another things need to think of is the political environment:

First, China was not seeking to reduce other permanent members power but only replace one, the weakest one:ROC while india is actually trying to threat P5's power and influence. Do you think any of them would be happy about that?

Second, in last 70s, China was the only one fighting for the seat while india is only one of them. So giving india the seat with veto power is actually open the door for at least 4 countries? Do think that anyone in p5 would like that prospect?


So, the circumstance that india is facing today is far worse off than China.

 

[no smoking]

India might as well work on making the UNSC irrelevant. Just like the USSR went around rampaging without giving a tuppence about what the rest of the world thought. That is the main idea. If rest of the world get annoyed with PRC< PRC will simply face a boycott. No need to fight a war, that boycott alone will crush PRC's backbone.

I hope you do realize that!

With one of 2 most strongest military powers in hand before 1990 and 60% of USA's GDP, yes, USSR can make UNSC irrelevant. But what india is having now? World outsourcing super power?