India ramps up defence along China border

[rock127]

I Don't know what is the use of 200 Tanks, if they already have 6 airbase and can bombard each section of ours in minutes. Single sortie of Carpet bombing rest the case.
1.We have to increase our Air defence capability, firepower (not by deploying more tanks rather deploy Prahar,Smerch,Pinaca's etc) for heavy bombardment on their infrastructure ,
2. Brahmos block I,II,III for precision striking of strategically located highways, rail routes, bases etc.
3. Increase our air lifting capability by deployment of Il-76, upgraded An- 32, C-17s, C-130 Js etc.
4. Increase Radar and signal network through out the LAC.
5. Station as much bases of Su 30 MKIs, Rafale's.

The airpower would be the KEY. :thumb:

In last war we had better airpower but didn't use it.

 

[Ray]

Really? If Indian military is not expecting trouble in that area then why spend a lot of money beefing up the forces in that isolated place? What's the point of buying C-17s and C-130s? The fact is that China has been exhibiting aggressiveness there lately and the Indian military is forced to beef up forces both for deterrence and actual incidents of Chinese adventurism. The Chinese sees weakness in India and they are taking advantage. Good thing the Indian military is finally waking up to the fact that the Chinese are not only doing friendly visits...




India is joining SCO mainly because of long held anti-West feelings on the Indian political class. India politicians have no rational rudder in international relations. Their mind is corrupted by anti-colonialist and Soviet hang-over syndrome.

As I said, 'threat in being'.

 

[roma]

I Don't know what is the use of 200 Tanks, if they already have 6 airbase and can bombard each section of ours in minutes. Single sortie of Carpet bombing rest the case.
1.We have to increase our Air defence capability, firepower (not by deploying more tanks rather deploy Prahar,Smerch,Pinaca's etc) for heavy bombardment on their infrastructure ,
2. Brahmos block I,II,III for precision striking of strategically located highways, rail routes, bases etc.
3. Increase our air lifting capability by deployment of Il-76, upgraded An- 32, C-17s, C-130 Js etc.
4. Increase Radar and signal network through out the LAC.
5. Station as much bases of Su 30 MKIs, Rafale's.

The airpower would be the KEY. :thumb:
In last war we had better airpower but didn't use it.

Not arguing with you on this one - im assuming your facts were right - again it depends
on the perspective because ive heard it said that ground troops are the the key - that you
can have great air prowess but without occupation of ground troops - no value
of course we may be talking about different areas - so let's assume youre right

so i hope my friend rock127 will allow me to re-look at what he has written:-
what is being said is that even though we had superior power in a vital area - we still lost that particular
situation

therefore ( in my words ) - actually it is the Military Doctrine and the political will which truly are the KEY

Similarly in the 1965 war with packland, we had sufficient ammunition in the arms stores but didnt know it and made decision based on the fallacy that we had run out of bullets

Just goes to show that our military doctrine SPECIFIC to the situation and political will - if those are weak, we will qualify for a West Point or a Sandhurst Military Academy Case Study where powerful weapons can be left in the store room and our opponents are allowed to win on the ground, air or sea due to ill-conceived military doctrine and nebulous or weak political will.

i sure hope we improve in those two vital areas because if they think we are "alright" in the same
- then we would have further cause for concern

 

[EXPERT]

@roma you are absolutely right but Military doctrines and political willpower is needed for Planning, preparing, applying, and defending etc.
But here we are talking about what we have to do at LAC so that could make our position better.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

out of 8 squadrons of akash SAM, 6 will be based near LAC. This would provide extremely cappable air defence along the LAC, be it logistics or aerial strikes. Chinese would think twice before any aerial campaign.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

I would have preferred that india also took a more forward position by having Indian Navy in active duty in South China Sea because without that we are defending a relatively nearby border while they are waging warfare literally more than 2 thousand miles from their major cities on their east coast . We should have military units much closer to their east coastal cities .

One way is through naval force, via naval bases in the Philippines the other is to have land-based units in Vietnam and naval bases in Philippines. ..that will scare them and it is nothing provocative as china has troops in Pak occupied Kashmir - so we can reciprocate with forces in Vietnam and naval bases in Philippines, Taiwan ( if we have more guts later ) .

As Vietnam and Philippines, need the protection , they can also contribute towards the costs- it's only fair they do so. ?

that might be percieved as highly provocative by china. Remember
the cuban missile crisis? Having port of calls and normal drills by navy in that area is digestable, but i think land based bhramos may be deemed as too much. They are have the upper hand right now, must not bend it.

 

[roma]

that might be percieved as highly provocative by china. Remember
the cuban missile crisis? Having port of calls and normal drills by navy in that area is digestable, but i think land based bhramos may be deemed as too much. They are have the upper hand right now, must not bend it.

ok ..if i understand youre saying that China is stronger so we dont push our luck too far

at this time ? ...but later is a different story ? if so, i agree.

 

[EXPERT]

out of 8 squadrons of akash SAM, 6 will be based near LAC. This would provide extremely cappable air defence along the LAC, be it logistics or aerial strikes. Chinese would think twice before any aerial campaign.

You know our 6 squadrons of Akash Sam will be of little use because Chinese know how to breach Air defences of enemy. It already has plans ready to penetrate all the existing US air defence system by firing more and more missiles on a single target. You can't stop 50 missiles at a time or 100 or even more and Chinese have that capability.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

ok ..if i understand youre saying that China is stronger so we dont push our luck too far

at this time ? ...but later is a different story ? if so, i agree.

By later, how much later do you mean? As we are growing, they are growing too. Right now, our strategic advantages against china is in ratio of 1:3 . By 2019, it will be 1:2.8 and by 2025 it will be 1:2.1 . As of now, we should maintain our defensive posture as we dont have much capability to launch a counter attack .

 

[Jagdish58]

No, I've seen enough antics from Indian politicians on international relations. They naturally gravitate towards anti-Western camp. Hell, they are even prepared to exist under China in SCO.

A lot of Indians on the other hand want to migrate or work in the West...

France is the prime party in NATO , but still it has good relationship with Russia they have free foreign policy never bend under Uncle Sam pressure
India is following the same

End of the day it is every man for himself , if India gains with relationship with North korea aswell then they have to go for it never hesitate

 

[Ray]

No, I've seen enough antics from Indian politicians on international relations. They naturally gravitate towards anti-Western camp. Hell, they are even prepared to exist under China in SCO.

A lot of Indians on the other hand want to migrate or work in the West...

Actually, Indians are averse to any dadagiri and hence you feel that India is anti west.


Dadagriri means whatever has been said is the sole path and it the sole thing that is right. Period.

It does show that the slavish mentality is vanishing in India, while it is celebrated by those who are in Malaysia and elsewhere.

Thanks for telling us that SCO is a Chinese sole propriety and every other member is working under China.

Did not know that.

Can't blame you for feeling that all work under China.

Malaysia is indeed working under the Chinese in Malaysia and so that impression does stick on the Malaysian mind and psyche!

Thanks again.

 

[roma]

By later, how much later do you mean? As we are growing, they are growing too. Right now, our strategic advantages against china is in ratio of 1:3 . By 2019, it will be 1:2.8 and by 2025 it will be 1:2.1 . As of now, we should maintain our defensive posture as we dont have much capability to launch a counter attack .

All you have said is fine -nothing against it - even agree with you .
But what i am against is the possibility of an attitude of perpetual cowardice becoming a permanent
feature in relation to ccp-china - that's what we need to guard against !

Of course , stupidity in the same area is no solution to the said cowardice, so as you rightly mentioned,
we do need to keep an eye on the relative strengths - bearing in mind they play a lot of military mind games
eg there is a lot of controversial discussion that if our air force had been deployed in 1962, the outcome would
have been very different - perhaps an opposite result - it is debatable - but the fact i am emphasizing is that
Nehru started out being over-confident , then he was psychologically broken and dared not even whimper.- so an
accurate assessment including what ever measurements of relative strength is very necessary.

( ref;

The airpower would be the KEY. :thumb:

In last war we had better airpower but didn't use it.

)


When ccp-china faced up to the USA in Korea in the 1950's what was your "strategic-advantage" ratio regarding usa -china ? it must have been more than 3:1 in favour of usa , yet china had the guts to stand up to them

When the going gets tough, the tough get going - of course with intelligence too !

But at the risk of repetition , i say again - it is the attitude of cowardice that we need to guard against while being
realistic vis-a-vis the reality i mentioned in my para above.

CCP-China has armed Pakistan or at the very least given them every support especially in the nuclear area, is doing
a lot for them in India-claimed gilglt-baltistan areas even now while talking trade with the Modi government . .
CCP-CHina has armed the rebels in the north-east, has built a string of pearls against us - and most importantly
is trying its best in every and whatever way possible to contain India .

So if you are telling me that you advocate the perpetual cowardice towards ccp-china - then i think it is a ´very sad day for India, from my perspective, perhaps not yours ?

I would prefer that when the strengths are about matched that we give them a good time by showing some guts
in the south china sea, by ramping up cooperation with Vietnam in terms of armaments an not just
softie talk about agriculture etc etc eg cooperation with Philippines - go ahead with protecting our oil-drilling activities int the SCS - more forcefully - our navy is up to it as long as the military doctrine and politicians back them
that is why i mentioned those two areas above having arms - what many times are store in the storeroom and
our military men are not allowed to use them.

In short show ccp-china that there ARE persons with guts AND brains in India and not just a bunch of disorganized cowards ( not my opinion, please! ) at the doctrinal level but i think that is the impression they are getting ) !

yes ! - show them that indeed - there are persons with guts and brains in our armed forces doctrinal departments .

In conclusion i am not advocating an unnecessary provocation of ccp-china which is a lose-lose situation ´for both
our nations and i certainly do not desire that.
But i think we need to go further than the "defensive" policy that yourself and perhaps one or two others seem to be advocating.

India has reached an economic level where we can and should go beyond the mere deterrent level
We ARE actually able to "say" to ccp-china the following:- do not continue with your string of pearls and other containment policies against us, because, they more you do now , the more we are obliged to do against you n the future .

Now that it not provocation - but it delivers a nice message to them .
I can only hope our defense planners and politicians are listening to my message to them.

(partial quote - hope Ray-ji will allow ):-

......It does show that the slavish mentality is vanishing in India, .....

well if that is truly the case, it is some partial good news - hoping for more

 

[Ray]

(partial quote - hope Ray-ji will allow ):-

well if that is truly the case, it is some partial good news - hoping for more

That quote can give a wrong impression.

It was in the context of some poster being overenthusiastic about the greatness of the West.

 

[roma]

That quote can give a wrong impression.
It was in the context of some poster being overenthusiastic about the greatness of the West.

the qualifying statements are appreciated as indeed they were at the time of my writing that post
the way i had quoted may be slightly beyond the rigidly strict context, but i think not out of perspective
The fawning of the greatness of the west can carry over into the fear and even cowardly attitudes towards ccp-china
That is what i was getting at - and as that is hanging , so therefore we may have some hope in the lessening
of our fear, by some persons towards ccp-china

hope you can be influenced to agree somewhat to that ? - which is how i was quoting Ray-ji
it may not have been easily apparent at first, the connection , i mean - hope i have clarified
not only to your good self but also all other readers of this thread .

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

All you have said is fine -nothing against it - even agree with you .
But what i am against is the possibility of an attitude of perpetual cowardice becoming a permanent
feature in relation to ccp-china - that's what we need to guard against !

Of course , stupidity in the same area is no solution to the said cowardice, so as you rightly mentioned,
we do need to keep an eye on the relative strengths - bearing in mind they play a lot of military mind games
eg there is a lot of controversial discussion that if our air force had been deployed in 1962, the outcome would
have been very different - perhaps an opposite result - it is debatable - but the fact i am emphasizing is that
Nehru started out being over-confident , then he was psychologically broken and dared not even whimper.- so an
accurate assessment including what ever measurements of relative strength is very necessary.

( ref; )


When ccp-china faced up to the USA in Korea in the 1950's what was your "strategic-advantage" ratio regarding usa -china ? it must have been more than 3:1 in favour of usa , yet china had the guts to stand up to them

When the going gets tough, the tough get going - of course with intelligence too !

But at the risk of repetition , i say again - it is the attitude of cowardice that we need to guard against while being
realistic vis-a-vis the reality i mentioned in my para above.

CCP-China has armed Pakistan or at the very least given them every support especially in the nuclear area, is doing
a lot for them in India-claimed gilglt-baltistan areas even now while talking trade with the Modi government . .
CCP-CHina has armed the rebels in the north-east, has built a string of pearls against us - and most importantly
is trying its best in every and whatever way possible to contain India .

So if you are telling me that you advocate the perpetual cowardice towards ccp-china - then i think it is a ´very sad day for India, from my perspective, perhaps not yours ?

I would prefer that when the strengths are about matched that we give them a good time by showing some guts
in the south china sea, by ramping up cooperation with Vietnam in terms of armaments an not just
softie talk about agriculture etc etc eg cooperation with Philippines - go ahead with protecting our oil-drilling activities int the SCS - more forcefully - our navy is up to it as long as the military doctrine and politicians back them
that is why i mentioned those two areas above having arms - what many times are store in the storeroom and
our military men are not allowed to use them.

In short show ccp-china that there ARE persons with guts AND brains in India and not just a bunch of disorganized cowards ( not my opinion, please! ) at the doctrinal level but i think that is the impression they are getting ) !

yes ! - show them that indeed - there are persons with guts and brains in our armed forces doctrinal departments .

In conclusion i am not advocating an unnecessary provocation of ccp-china which is a lose-lose situation ´for both
our nations and i certainly do not desire that.
But i think we need to go further than the "defensive" policy that yourself and perhaps one or two others seem to be advocating.

India has reached an economic level where we can and should go beyond the mere deterrent level
We ARE actually able to "say" to ccp-china the following:- do not continue with your string of pearls and other containment policies against us, because, they more you do now , the more we are obliged to do against you n the future .

Now that it not provocation - but it delivers a nice message to them .
I can only hope our defense planners and politicians are listening to my message to them.

1. See my thread about Iraq crisis in defence-strategic issues and then say i undermine India's strength.
2.It was Soviets who were main supporters of DPRK in Korean War, so what you said is somewhat correct, somewhat incorrect.
https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090312175720AA5JkOL
3. For a massive counter attack, the military ratio should be b/t us should be atleast 1:1.5 .
4. If you think really think that we should stand upto China, why havent we still attacked Pakistan as they terrorize us, even though we are much powerful than them?
5. As as earlier said, Land based Missiles are too much. Send Frigates on Patrols in South China Sea , that sends a good message to them.
6. Another peaceful way to send them a serious message is to form more military ties and deals with Japan, Vietnam.
7. And we are in agreement that there are many people in India who are afraid of China, which harms us indirectly.But I can assure you Im not one of them.
8. Personally, I believe that India and China wont go to war anytime soon . China resorts to bullying tactics on its neighbors just to show them whos the boss. Worldwide recession is going on, they are focusing on their economy, which completely depends on exports and even a single war can crunch that. If they still do that, they are stupid, which i seriously doubt.

 

[roma]

1. See my thread about Iraq crisis in defence-strategic issues and then say i undermine India's strength.
2.It was Soviets who were main supporters of DPRK in Korean War, so what you said is somewhat correct, somewhat incorrect.
https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090312175720AA5JkOL
3. For a massive counter attack, the military ratio should be b/t us should be atleast 1:1.5 .
4. If you think really think that we should stand upto China, why havent we still attacked Pakistan as they terrorize us, even though we are much powerful than them?
5. As as earlier said, Land based Missiles are too much. Send Frigates on Patrols in South China Sea , that sends a good message to them.
6. Another peaceful way to send them a serious message is to form more military ties and deals with Japan, Vietnam.
7. And we are in agreement that there are many people in India who are afraid of China, which harms us indirectly.But I can assure you Im not one of them.
8. Personally, I believe that India and China wont go to war anytime soon . China resorts to bullying tactics on its neighbors just to show them whos the boss. Worldwide recession is going on, they are focusing on their economy, which completely depends on exports and even a single war can crunch that. If they still do that, they are stupid, which i seriously doubt.

pardon me , you are 17 yrs old ? are you telling the truth or have you mis-spelled 27 yrs old or your keyboard is
not working well ? so tell us what college are you at and what subjects you are studying ? or are you going to tell us
that you have completed your B:A in strategic studies ? if you are truly 17 yrs old then are you one of the national top
in history or some related subject ? anyway im old enough to be your mother - but never mind !

i'll reply to your point 2 saying that you might know more about it - i was under the impression that ccp-china soldiers
made up the manpower fighting against the usa but if you say it was mainly soviet then ok . Or was it soviet supplying weapons and china providing the manpower ? - i'll take your info as i dont have my own other than ccp boasters on this forum - hardly a source
to go by - so i prefer your info.

your point 6 is basically what i was talking about although i think sooner or later we should put troops on the ground or at least advisers on the ground to help vietnam - and if china has built ir made preparations for silos in gilgit-baltistan then we have to do the
same in the northern regions of vietnam to show china we can play the same game too... so i think we agree on point 6 but we may
differ on the exact measures ...and point 6 was the main thrust of all i have been saying so far -

as for your point 8 - really i wouldnt take china lightly at all - sure they wont go for an all out war but it is the inch by inch
which is troublesome - after all how does one react when they only take an inch - then the next and our folks in govt say well never mind

nice debating with you - keep it up ! Lots of hope for India with people like you around !

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

pardon me , you are 17 yrs old ? are you telling the truth or have you mis-spelled 27 yrs old or your keyboard is
not working well ? so tell us what college are you at and what subjects you are studying ? or are you going to tell us
that you have completed your B:A in strategic studies ? if you are truly 17 yrs old then are you one of the national top
in history or some related subject ? anyway im old enough to be your mother - but never mind !

i'll reply to your point 2 saying that you might know more about it - i was under the impression that ccp-china soldiers
made up the manpower fighting against the usa but if you say it was mainly soviet then ok . Or was it soviet supplying weapons and china providing the manpower ? - i'll take your info as i dont have my own other than ccp boasters on this forum - hardly a source
to go by - so i prefer your info.

your point 6 is basically what i was talking about although i think sooner or later we should put troops on the ground or at least advisers on the ground to help vietnam - and if china has built ir made preparations for silos in gilgit-baltistan then we have to do the
same in the northern regions of vietnam to show china we can play the same game too... so i think we agree on point 6 but we may
differ on the exact measures ...and point 6 was the main thrust of all i have been saying so far -

as for your point 8 - really i wouldnt take china lightly at all - sure they wont go for an all out war but it is the inch by inch
which is troublesome - after all how does one react when they only take an inch - then the next and our folks in govt say well never mind

nice debating with you - keep it up ! Lots of hope for India with people like you around !

i can assure you Im 17 yrs old only . Is everyone here that older than me? Im doubting if this is the correct place for me . And nice debate with you too mam !

 

[roma]

i can assure you Im 17 yrs old only . Is everyone here that older than me? Im doubting if this is the correct place for me . And nice debate with you too mam !

great ...i believed you even earlier , was just joking about if it was true .
Yes this is a good place for you to be - especially if you intend a career in any branch of government or
public administration. What you will learn here is a very wide view of public admin and thinking You will gain
a great deal also because you will be rubbing shoulders with people who have a lot of experience and this will give you a tremendous advantage over your peers .... however if you are not aiming for a career in the government eg if you are keen on doing business or medicine, accountancy, engineering - even then you will still gain because of the maturity you can garner by mixing with us, folks who are older ....just my opinion , final decision is yours. IN short one always gains by mixing with people who have more experience - you can never lose by having such contacts as you will here.

and by the way talking about china inch by inch ....A Tense Encounter Between Indian and Chinese Soldiers
admittedly there is no specific date to it , but their attitude is still current !

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

Yes this is a good place for you to be - especially if you intend a career in any branch of government or
public administration. What you will learn here is a very wide view of public admin and thinking You will gain
a great deal also because you will be rubbing shoulders with people who have a lot of experience and this will give you a tremendous advantage over your peers .... however if you are not aiming for a career in the government eg if you are keen on doing business or medicine, accountancy, engineering - even then you will still gain because of the maturity you can garner by mixing with us, folks who are older ....just my opinion , final decision is yours. IN short one always gains by mixing with people who have more experience - you can never lose by having such contacts as you wil will be here.

Thanks for the tip !

 

[sorcerer]

Center Focusing on Infrastructure Development Along LAC: Army Official

UDHAMPUR: The Centre has given a major boost to building of infrastructure along the Sino-Indian border line in Ladakh, a top army commander today said.
"The present government (in India) has also given a major boost to try and built up infrastructure along the border line (in Ladakh)", General Officer Commanding-In-Chief Northern Command Lt Gen D S Hooda told reporters here today.

Replying to a question about the infrastructure development along LAC, he said, "As far as infrastructure development is concern along the LAC (Line of Actual Control), frankly, it is not as good as, what is obviously across the border".

"The infrastructure, and the developments on the Chinese side are much more and therefore there is a big push over it in past few years", he said.
He said that important roads in eastern Ladakh have been put under a special dispensation, additional troops have been moved and then there is a big push forward for infrastructure development.

On his visit to China, he said, "My visit to China was extremely useful. I think that my impression is that armies of both the countries are keen on keeping peace along the border-line and you have to see it on a day-to-day basis that things are calm along the border-line".
"Additional meeting points have been set up. There are regular border personnel meetings. I think there is a understanding from both sides that we need to keep calm, peace and tranquility along the borderline", he added.
Source>>