India Plans to buy S-400

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by SajeevJino, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Shiv sagar

    Shiv sagar Regular Member

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    China is ruled by commies in their full might (the worst form) which hates democracy in any avatar. We are democratic and hence the hate will stay as long as we stay democratic. Because of the said reason ,Commies will find one reason or another to go against us even if Dalai Lama dies and India accepts Chinese Dalai Lama.
     
  2. Lancer

    Lancer Regular Member

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    Only an idiot would try to rationalize the Chinese side. Give China assurances on Tibet, Dalai Lama, Xinjiang and they will still demand Arunachal, they will still try to outmaneuver/out-influence you in your own neighborhood, they will still fund NE separatists and they will continue opposing you at every international fora while backing Pakistan to the hilt, and try sabotaging you in any other way possible.

    How retarded and naive must one be to sympathize with or "keep an open mind" to the Chinese side? Such a person is simply a useful idiot for Chinese conquest, much like the proverbial frog in the Frog & Scorpion tale.
     
  3. Vijyes

    Vijyes Senior Member Senior Member

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    India is unstable country. Last time BJP under Vajpayee accepted Tibet under china but congress under influence of CIA changed policy. So, until China can find stable policy from India, don't expect stable response.

    Again, India has not yet assured that Dalai Lama will not be reincarnated in India. That is why the issue of Dalai Lama can be resolved only when China has confirmation that Dalai Lama is not a player, it will have suspicion.

    Rest assured, the relationship is going well and China is actually helping India in manufacturing technology. Other issues will soon be sorted out
     
  4. Vijyes

    Vijyes Senior Member Senior Member

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    The reality is that communists were always the good guys. Capitalists are imperial Abrahamic missionaries.

    India is not democratic nor is China autocratic. China is democratic as the people can have a say via their communes. People are always kept in confidence. India, on the other hand is a banana republic, not a democracy.
    NE terrorists are Christians funded via Bangladesh by western countries. China supported Maoist but that has stopped now. China doesn't support Abrahamic religious groups of NE or Islamists.

    If you don't understand strategic thinking, don't simply comment anything
     
  5. Lancer

    Lancer Regular Member

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    LMFAO you're either clueless or Chinese.
     
  6. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Veteran Member Senior Member

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    And guess what, his surname is Yechuri............
     
  7. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Again dumb nigga shit

    Let me breakdown and walk circles around your retarded logic.

    C-295 is replacing the AVRO and not the C-130J (they are in a different useful load class). Don't be too surprised, if more C-130Js are ordered as well. Also, it's been indispensable when it comes to humanitarian ops, saving thousand of life and moving tons of relief during heavy cyclone. There is reason why IAF holds the biggest record of disaster relief. It saves life nigga. Your opinion is dog shit, please post facts and the C-130J role so far has been stellar.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiaho...000-civilians-astonishing-2-140-missions.html

    Well 11 C-17s are even more strategic for use now with S-400 coming, try moving a fire unit of the S-400 on short notice to Andaman for instance. Again nigga please. S-400 was in consideration for over 7-8 years and C-17 was ordered for many reasons including transporting Brahmos, Shaurya TELs, SAM batteries. It is the pride of the IAF when it comes to disaster relief. IAF my ignorant friend, has roles that include disaster relief. Tell how useless it is to the thousands who have been rescued or received relief. Including in Nepal, Indonesia, Op Raahat in Syria and Yemen.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...m-kashmir-to-chennai/articleshow/50071731.cms

    https://www.thenational.ae/world/india-evacuates-1-400-nationals-from-yemen-by-air-and-sea-1.33125

    https://www.business-standard.com/a...n-air-force-from-srinagar-119021000025_1.html

    COMCASA related data exchange is already in place. a lot of kit already arrived at Naval and IAF HQs. While we don't have COMCASA equipment on assets like ships, fighters, helos etc. data exchange already happens and so far it's be one sided to our benefit, since we don't give us jack for now. For you say it is a one sided agreement, one must provide proof that it is, else they need to swallow whatever is available in the public domain including statements from Def. Min. and PMO itself, they don't have a problem, neither does any of the services. Does this fool think that such decisions are made without consulting all relevant services. Does this nigga take IAF, IN, IA , MOD, NCA, NSA and others for a fool. The only nigga with a foolish baseless claims is you. Facts don't give two shits about your inability to absorb facts either.

    Nigga, EUMA is an entirely different agreement for inspections on assets starting with INS Jalashwa and subsequent deals. So far only 1 inspection has occurred and the Golden Sentry team only inspected the US night equipment that was removed from the ship, they weren't allowed anywhere near Indian equipment. Inspections are done with advance planning along side IN and are restricted only to US Kit if at all. No other inspections have even been requested since.

    http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/...d-user-inspection-of-warship-by-us/15474.html

    https://indianexpress.com/article/news-archive/web/no-unilateral-end-user-inspections-us-wrote/

    IMRH is a HAL project and is still in definition mode. It would be great if a test helo or two are ready by 2025.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-hal-works-to-define-large-multi-role-h-455957/

    http://forceindia.net/cover-story/navy-finally-ups-ante/

    The Indian Navy currently operates 11 Kamov-28 and 17 Sea King ASW helicopters. The majority of the helicopters, however, are not operational. The Indian Navy has four flyable Kamov Ka-28 helicopters, whereas the serviceability rate of the Sea Kings was below 30 per cent, according to a report by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG).

    So as you see, we have a dire need for ASW helos and 123 Naval helos will come, mostly from the US since IMRH won't be ready before 2027-28 for operational use and at best can match capabilities already on offer. IMRH is perfectly fine replacing the old MI-8s and Mi-17s anyways, the oldest Mi-8s will need retiring by then. One can't assure a decent security for the INS Vikky and INS Vikrant on 4 opertaional Ka-28 helos alone. Hence 24 Romeos are coming. There is no way, IN is leaving a wide gap open till late 2020s to get a decent ASW capability since many new warships will also go online by then. Such assets are a must for upcoming 4 LPD, P-17A, P-15B and other ships.

    However 111 NUH for light helos should be a deal for Naval Dhruv, ordering anything else is nonsense and a waste of time and money, hopefully it can prove itself in trials.


    https://www.business-standard.com/a...-russia-s-copter-monopoly-119032600488_1.html

    This dumb nigga don't seem to understand why helos are bought in the first place, not every place can land C-295s or the C-130J for that matter. Chinook will play an important roles in a lot areas specially frontier posts where vehicles or even mules can't go. It is based in Chandigarh base which support frontier posts in Siachen and Ladhak, both areas of strategic importance. Again, Nigga please.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ve-in-march/story-EThSnxAxSoYC3LxoXef6QO.html

    Only a nigga who has no facts, has no clue on how a war is conducted can talk shit about the Apache. The Apache despite being a helo and vulnerable to anti air is perhaps the best air based support system for Strike units. This is proven over many theaters and countless missions. God know how many tanks, terror camps, bunkers, unwashed abduls have been pulversied than to the Apache. The Apache in Gulf war alone destroyed 278 tanks. In the meantime, it has only been improved to be even more rugged, reliable and has become symbol of merciless death among the Unwahsed Abdul. While some were shot down with SAMs etc, losing an asset in combat doesn't make that particular type of platform useless. It's like saying our Mig-21 was shot down, so we shouldn't get jets anymore. Nigga please.

    Diego Garcia is perhaps one of the most sensitive sites in the world, it has plenty of resistance to all kind of missile volleys including nuclear. Attacking it would invite the entire wrath of the USN, then it's open game. We'd loose all our naval stations in a matter of hours. We'd also loose a lot of our ships quickly since many of them don't have decent anti air. They would have damage as well but we have little or no way to counter their subs or just the vast resources they can bear down on us.

    Well let's see if an Air India can land in any of the ALGs, till then STFU with your gobbar logic.

    Must say it has been super fun, absolutely shitting all over your dumb nigga logic this morning.
     
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  8. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Before calling me dalla, you should provide some context. I more of a realist, while people claim that the services have been given US equipment to keep US in friendly terms and to appease to them. This utter non-sense and couldn't be further away from the truth. If anything IAF/IN and IA have gone in for products needed to full-fill gaps and address operational needs and many of the deals have been been competitive deals where US products did win based on competition.

    If the Services have found a new level of comfort in operating US products, they will only get more comfy over time since all these products have been delivered ahead of time, they have great availability and have proven quite useful. It also means that the various services are confident that the civilian authority is confident enough to deal with disagreements and glitches that can always occur in any relationship. While we have the right to question and raise concerns when applicable, people should also keep certain keys facts in mind. COMCASA the esrtwhile CISMOA and all the other agreements have been tailor made and negotiated over the better part of a decade. All these agreements also have periodic reviews, escalation mechanisms to address differences and potential clash points. All these agreements have been signed only after detailed assessment of risks, rewards, bottle necks etc by all the services. Earlier versions were torn up, re-written to remove intrusive clauses etc.

    That point here is the civilian authority and the services are confident in dealing with the US bureaucracy and Military and risks have been carefully considered. There are plenty of purchases in the pipeline and some will go Russia, some to Israel, some to US, some to France and others, some will be local. This is inevitable.

    I have also supported S-400 deal, more Scorpenes, additional ships from Russia, Russian Igla/Verba purchase, more advanced T-90s, more MKI, PAKFA, more Phalcons, more MR-LR SAM, more P-8Is, Apaches, Chinooks, more Rafales (atleast 36-54), appreciate IAF's desire to have ASRAAM as common WVR missile. Glad IAF is ordering more new gen Russian air to air missiles. I am glad IAF will also get new restored Mig-29s as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  9. Vijyes

    Vijyes Senior Member Senior Member

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    Moron,I am talking of war and you are talking of disaster relief! I don't deny about requirement for disaster relief but we are currently talking of winning any wars in future. No off topic allowed.

    Only a retard would move that heavy item in war via air, that too, to far away location. The plane will be extremely vulnerable as it is not fast or maneuverable. Again, I am talking of war, not disasters. Don't mix the topic.

    Planes like C295 are easy to build and replenish if lost in war. C130 & C17 are bigger and difficult to build. In addition, we will need supplies in hundreds or thousands of tons which are better sent via ships that can carry tens of thousand tons than fly a plane for 100-200 times. The aerial transport is needed for quick mobilising during sudden and unforeseen circumstances. In this case, the movement will always be in limited quantity. So, it is enough to have C295 type planes for such roles. It is good to have C130 but it is not unsubstitutable

    We don't have a problem with COMCASA as long as we use it selectively. We will have a problem if we use COMCASA equipment everywhere. As of now, the thinking is to use the COMCASA equipment selectively where USA will give high end Technology and not use it where no such technology is involved.

    Talking trash doesn't change reality that COMCASA has to be used selectively only in select places. That also means COMCASA equipment is ruled out in most of the places as it is a potentially spying equipment which will transmit data to USA.

    That inspection was demanded even for equipment of COMCASA. Read the COMCASA agreement which clearly states that COMSEC equipment will be regularly inspected. If you can't find it in internet, then read CISMOA signed with South Korea to get a clue about the inspection.

    The plan is to get it by 2025. It is expected to be similar to Mi17. I don't really see a hurdle as it is not a big technology. 7-8 years is a standard development time.

    Do you think this Romeo helicopters are coming in 2 years? These 123 will arrive only by 2025. So, by the time any next orders have to be placed, IMRH would already be ready. It makes no sense to over hype the urgency. The 123 helicopters will work well for urgent needs. Any more can be from IMRH after 2025.

    I am not an idiot. I specifically said that helicopters are only good for transportation and surveillance. I am against fighter helicopters as that ia retarded and too vulnerable to simple MANPADS. Transport helicopters are needed for quick hauling of arms. We can use IMRH yoo in the

    Don't talk rubbish. Apache doesn't have the ability to withstand MANPADS. In gulf war, most tanks and ground assets were destroyed by aerial fire from jets. Apaches also functioned under aerial cover of jets.

    In modern times, IIR seekers have become more compact and advanced. Almost every country like Pakistan, Turkey also make MANPADS. If Apache tries its luck now, it will be destroyed ruthlessly. The role of any fighter helicopter is limited now. So, it really doesn't matter if LCH is used instead of Apache. The limited roles can be performed even by light helicopters. So, nothing strategic about Apache.

    Yeah, that tiny island is some super station! Size matters. It can be taken down rather quickly in hours and completely captured in a week by India.

    Obviously, attacking it will be during war with USA. So it would already be open game by then.

    Indian ships don't have anti air defence? Are you out of your mind? In war,India will lose some ships but so will USA. India has enough ASW assets to completely neutralize submarines bear the shore and give decent 200-300km safety zone in the sea near the shore.

    USA can't simply bear down infinite Resources as the logistics of carrying across 18000km will be too difficult. India is not resourceless either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  10. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    This nigga is dumber than Puki niggers, seems like you a had a madrassa fail education. There unwashed abduls smarter than you.

    Nigga these are military assets and they all have apart to play in a war. If you think C-17s and C-130J aren't going to be used in a war, then I can blame your madrassa education. All these aircraft are fully capable of being escorted and come with expensive kit to keep them safe even worst case missile launches. These are critical to winning any war. Logistics is a key part of any war effort, perhaps the most important. It isperfectly possible to doominate the enemy with inferiror platforms as long as the logistics are kept flowing smoothly. By thet classification even the MKI is a 'Heavy class' fighter, will it be kept in bunker just because a war started.

    The C-295 deal isn't done, nothing is produced yet. Let's see how many are ordered, for now 56. They would be a handy replacement for the Avro and eventually AN-132 if IAF doesn't want another class of aircraft. C-295 has it's place but C-130J and C-17 have an equally important role.

    As of now no platforms in our inventory have COMCASA equipment and if the services want this equipment on their platforms, it is their decision based on complete know how and what they gain and what the risks are, leave the decisions to the ones who do the work. Don't come here talking shit about what the IAF, IA and IN needs to do, they are fully aware of what is needed. You of all unwashed niggers shouldn't be talking about what the services want and need. You have no understanding of defense matters at all.

    CISMOA and COMCASA are very different and what is Korea has nothing to do with the agreement signed with India. CISMOA was already being rejected while you were still learning to wipe your ass (not sure if you are proficient in it yet), yo ass stinks nigga. I suspect you are some Puki or chinki.

    IMRH is a HAL project to meet the IA's Mi-8 and eventually Mi-17 replacement. It has been on the board on and off since 2007 but your ass don't know history. It just completed preliminary design, it is not even anywhere near close to prototyping. You can kiss your 2025 timeline goodbye. LCH for example had it's first flight in 2010, we are only in 2019 where it completed all it's weapons trials. Taking such timelines, none of the forces have the patience to wait for local unavailable shit meanwhile gaps in abilities only widens. Spare me your nonsense about timelines. If IMRH is ready with FOC in 2028, I would consider it a success but looks like it will be around 2030 if at all. For IMRH the road to certification will be tougher and longer since it has to perform more roles than the LCH. Any product worth it's salt will have a test phase of around 8-10 years before it is cleared for full scale production. If by 2030 we have a dozen of more IMRH replacing the Mi-8 first would be a success. Also Mi-8s will be the first to be replaced since there will be either 123 S-70s or Romeos in inventory of the Navy by then.

    Nigga, perhaps the biggest thing your dumb ass needs to understand is that every asset in the theater has a role to play and war is a team effort. Apaches will do their part while jets too will have to do their part so will the C-17 and others. That's the nature of it. Nigga,

    Apache's were the first to enter combat during the Gulf war, nigga even before any of the fighters got there. Read-up nigga, read-up, never too late. They have been credit with over 270 tanks killed in first Gulf war alone.

    https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/gulf-war-20th-apache-raid/

    Nigga the Apache doesn't get usually in the range of the enemy's IR missile, it a much a like stealth asset that can be used, in combination with block 3 abilities to controls UAVs etc. it is only get's harder to kill. Also nigga, it's IAF and eventually IA's decision to buy it, so please STFU, as said before you have no clue what war is. First learn how to wipe your ass.

    IN's air defenses are good but they are in the medium to short range, which can be overwhelmed with saturation attacks. It won't be easy by any means but for hard hitting force like the USN, it is very much in their capability.

    IN's ASW ability is a mixed bag, it has improved lately but there are wide gaps when it comes the challenges in preparing for a two front war.

    Again, can someone rub some sand on this nigga's :bs:
     
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  11. cobra commando

    cobra commando Tharki regiment Veteran Member Senior Member

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  12. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Just remember the air war during Operation Desert Storm, the spearhead of that massive air campaign were Apache helicopters that destroyed 2 Iraqi air defense radars sites allowing for a 20-mile safe corridor wherein coalition aircraft passed through in route to Baghdad and other Iraqi targets.

    In that mission, the Apaches flew 200 kms at an average altitude of 50 meters from the ground to avoid radar detection.

    In this video you can see actual video footage of the attack on these Iraqi radar sites:



    So Apache is a very versatile and if properly employed, a very effective weapon system. It can operate a wide variety of missions from anti-armor, anti-terror and as conventional tip of the spear in massed assault much like what it did in Iraq during the Desert Storm.

    Other vieo footages of apaches in the Gulf War:

     
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  13. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    More info on the Apache's performance during the first Gulf War:

     
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  14. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    S-400 missile system by ’23, advance pay to Russia done
    Russia is ready to take all necessary efforts to follow the time parameters of this agreement, says Roman Babushkin

    India will get the mobile S-400 Triumf air defence missile system (NATO reporting name SA-21 Growler) by 2023 and Russia has confirmed that it working on the schedule after the issue of advance payment for the delivery of the long-range surface-to-air weapons platform was settled.

    “The contract for S-400s will be implemented in compliance with the accords reached and the documents signed. The issue of making an advance payment under the contract has been resolved. We are not commenting on the details,” Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation told TASS news agency on Thursday in Moscow.

    The statement came within 24 hours of Russian Embassy in India Minister-Counsellor Roman Babushkin clarified that the missile system will reach the Indian armed forces in the next four years.

    “The term of the contract’s implementation is well known: by 2023, these systems must be delivered to India. Russia is ready to take all necessary efforts to follow the time parameters of this agreement,” Babushkin said in New Delhi on Wednesday.


    “We proceed from the fact that the contract will be implemented in full in accordance with the interests of both countries and the accords reached. We intend to strictly comply with them,” he added.
    https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-s-400-missile-system-by-23-advance-pay-to-russia-done-2786020

     
  15. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia receives advance payment from India for S-400 missiles: Report
    The report has come days after External Minister S Jaishankar visited Moscow to hold talks with his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov.

    MOSCOW: Russia has received an advance payment for S-400 air defence missile systems from India, Sputnik reported on Thursday.

    "As for India's advance payment for the S-400s, the matter has been settled. Due to objective reasons, we do not comment on technical details," the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation said at the MAKS-2019 air show, currently underway in Moscow's Zhukovsky region.

    The report has come days after External Minister S Jaishankar visited Moscow to hold talks with his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov.

    The deputy director of the defence cooperation agency, Vladimir Drozhzhov, said on July 9, that Russia hoped to receive the advance payment by the end of 2019 so that deliveries could begin in 2020 and be completed by 2025.

    New Delhi had signed a USD 5.43 billion deal with Russia for the purchase of five S-400s during the 19th India-Russia Annual Bilateral Summit in New Delhi on October 5, 2018, last year, which Washington had indicated may trigger Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) sanctions.
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-400-missiles-report/articleshow/70890810.cms



     
  16. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Why it is taking so long for the delivery of S-400?
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This does not/ should not be made public . Whatever we read can be take with a grain of salt. Government only knows the truth not some idiots In the media. For all we know we could have received some already?
     
  18. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    I hope it is true, but in my understanding, Russia was playing hard a trying tagging it with other purchases. I for sure know that S-300 are deployed protecting ket strategic locations.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Russian -Indian deals have always been many items. Russia knows we risked sanctions
    for this and kept our word on the deal. I think they offer many things because India has moved
    beyond a traditional buyer-seller relationship. if they are not offered now they may never be
    sold to India in the future? Anyway I am sure they expedited this deal we did pay a nice price
    for them.
     
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  20. Frontrunner

    Frontrunner Regular Member

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    Almaz antey the manufacturer of S400 already have backlog orders from Russian army, Turkey.. India has ordered 5 systems.. delivery will start as 1 system per year starting from 2020 to 2024.. meanwhile indian airforce have already sent their air defence on tour to Russia to train on the system..
     
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