India S-400 Acquisition - News Updates and Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

I hope this is different from the Chinese version


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[bengalraider]

What about our Akash/AAD..Can't they do same like s-400?

Nope! AAD could be modified into a 150km range SAM , but then the S400 has a 400km SAM so no comparison there!

 

[Chinmoy]

Full mobility, 100% area sensors and firing coverage, 400km range, all network centric warfare, AD and BMD in one package? No.
@Chinmoy, S-400 can work on IRBM/OTBM targets, but cannot heat ICBM, just like no others (except for THAAD, SM3/6 and GDI) can. Even so, those 3 named systems effectiveness is questionable.
S-500 will be capable of ICBM and hypersonic missiles defence, but it will be in 2017-2019.

Against IRBM, I would keep my finger crossed due to its launching range . But against Tactical BM, it would be bang on target. As far as ICBMs are concerned, they are different ball games and I doubt when anyone could have a full proof defence against these.
But again I am not getting the point as how it could be effective against IRBM's. Could you kindly shed some light on it from technical point of view.

 

[Nicky G]

The Indian Defence acquisitions council has okayed the purchase of S-400 long range missile systems from Russia, reports in the Indian media said.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2015/10/12/india-to-acquire-rusian-air-defences_481791

Still citing ToI, do we have confirmation form another source?

 

[pmaitra]

My profile country flag is showing US flag inspite mentioning location India.. How to change it ?

You can do what I did. You can pick an avatar and superimpose India's flag on it. The country flag is IP determined.

 

[Immanuel]

This is going to drain hell lot of Money from India. I think 12 Divisions/3 Regiments are enough to guard Western & Northern and Eastern sky. @gadeshi What is the cost per Division/Regiment?

This is way better investment than the Rafale for instance, cancel the Rafale deal and we'll find the money. The cost of 12 Regiments or Systems would be around 8 billion including offsets, some TOT and local assembly. With eventual inventory going over 4000 missiles, the S400 would make the entire airspace virtually impregnable when combined with the others, would send some serious shivers all around.

 

[bengalraider]

Exactly @Immanuel .The S400 if deployed in the numbers you quoted combined with the AKASH+ SPYDER+BARAK+ AAguns+ Pantsir+Tungushka+Buk have the potential to free the entire SU30 fleet from air superiority missions. In essence it'll let us impose a no- fly zone on the whole of Pakistani airspace at will giving our fly boys the freedom to go in and bomb the crap out of the Pakistani Army without having to keep an eye out for the pesky lil falcons!

 

[gadeshi]

This is way better investment than the Rafale for instance, cancel the Rafale deal and we'll find the money. The cost of 12 Regiments or Systems would be around 8 billion including offsets, some TOT and local assembly. With eventual inventory going over 4000 missiles, the S400 would make the entire airspace virtually impregnable when combined with the others, would send some serious shivers all around.

Yeah, if India will go for full featured systems package, then major offsets and some TOT are quite possible:
1 - TEL and TLV Vehicles - there are rumors, that India is going to licence build of BAZ or MZKT modular heavy chassis for different purposes including mobile IRBMs. So this contract might be a good starting point for Tata to start indigenous licence-built heavy LEGO-like chassis production (imagine a profits of this).
2 - Utility and liasion vehicles on the same chassis - Tata (and a lot of subcontractors) can make mobile coommand posts (with Russian hardware installed and some Indian parts in it), mobile barracks for crews, APU/MPU power units, special purpose vehiles, etc.
3 - PDMs (anti-diversion vehicles) based on BTR-82AM chassis - can incorporate Indian millimeter-band radars, Indian ultra-light UAVs and some equipment as well (we don't speak about customizations).
4 - Gazetchik-ME radar protection suits (1 per battery) - can be completely TOT to TATA (vehicles and towed carts) and DRDO (system parts, spares and munitions).
5 - Pantsyr S-1U/E - Missiles, 30-mm munitions, several spares can be TOTally licence produced in India, LCD monitors, crew compartment parts and chassis can be used Indian indigenous.
6 - Numerous Indian-specific and climat-determined modifications which can contain Indian parts.
7 - The others we don't know yet.

So, In my modest oppinion, Tata family will jump with Putins portraits if this contract will include offsets and TOT abilities like these

And of course, Indian AD crews will swet a lot and seed a lot of swear words learning to work in 15-mins Tic-Toc tactics.

 

[gadeshi]

It is dought in DRDO produced system's complete mobility and uniformity.
Vietnam era experiense says to us that if you are got caught, you are dead as corps if you'll not flee from launch point to change position in 5-15 mins

S-350 is a medium range system (up to 120km) - an advanced Buk replacement.

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[Immanuel]

Exactly @Immanuel .The S400 if deployed in the numbers you quoted combined with the AKASH+ SPYDER+BARAK+ AAguns+ Pantsir+Tungushka+Buk have the potential to free the entire SU30 fleet from air superiority missions. In essence it'll let us impose a no- fly zone on the whole of Pakistani airspace at will giving our fly boys the freedom to go in and bomb the crap out of the Pakistani Army without having to keep an eye out for the pesky lil falcons!

Absolutely, the best bang for buck we can get instead of wasting the same amount on the Rafale which will add no additional advantage whatsoever. Doing some basic calculations on distances using daftlogic, I find a single regiment can cover all of Kashmir effectively, another regiment in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat carefully positioned can cover significant areas of Paki airspace, we can essentially swat their birds in their own air space while making our airspace impregnable.

Having the S-400 and the other systems working in sync would essentially free the IAF from having to deploy MKIs, Mig-29s and other aircraft for air superiority. Furthermore, S-400 would allow for a lightning implementation of the follow-on for Cold Start, knowing full and well, it is already an old doctrine which has been tweaked to be deadlier. Actually S-400 becomes a significant strategic buy with strategic implications.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Absolutely, the best bang for buck we can get instead of wasting the same amount on the Rafale which will add no additional advantage whatsoever. Doing some basic calculations on distances using daftlogic, I find a single regiment can cover all of Kashmir effectively, another regiment in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat carefully positioned can cover significant areas of Paki airspace, we can essentially swat their birds in their own air space while making our airspace impregnable.

Having the S-400 and the other systems working in sync would essentially free the IAF from having to deploy MKIs, Mig-29s and other aircraft for air superiority. Furthermore, S-400 would allow for a lightning implementation of the follow-on for Cold Start, knowing full and well, it is already an old doctrine which has been tweaked to be deadlier. Actually S-400 becomes a significant strategic buy with strategic implications.

Not if you want to dominate enemy skies.

 

[gadeshi]

Absolutely, the best bang for buck we can get instead of wasting the same amount on the Rafale which will add no additional advantage whatsoever. Doing some basic calculations on distances using daftlogic, I find a single regiment can cover all of Kashmir effectively, another regiment in Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujarat carefully positioned can cover significant areas of Paki airspace, we can essentially swat their birds in their own air space while making our airspace impregnable.

Having the S-400 and the other systems working in sync would essentially free the IAF from having to deploy MKIs, Mig-29s and other aircraft for air superiority. Furthermore, S-400 would allow for a lightning implementation of the follow-on for Cold Start, knowing full and well, it is already an old doctrine which has been tweaked to be deadlier. Actually S-400 becomes a significant strategic buy with strategic implications.

S-400 can beat Paki IRBMs on launch route (active trajectory part or ATP) if their launch sites will be within the S-400 hit radius. And if not, than it will beat them on targetting routes.

 

[bengalraider]

Not if you want to dominate enemy skies.

Why do you think so?
If you ask me being able to swat paki planes in their own airspace pretty much constitutes the just of dominance over enemy skies for me!

 

[Anikastha]

Full mobility, 100% area sensors and firing coverage, 400km range, all network centric warfare, AD and BMD in one package? No.
@Chinmoy, S-400 can work on IRBM/OTBM targets, but cannot heat ICBM, just like no others (except for THAAD, SM3/6 and GDI) can. Even so, those 3 named systems effectiveness is questionable.
S-500 will be capable of ICBM and hypersonic missiles defence, but it will be in 2017-2019.

So u say we don't have any SAM program (indigenous) with 400km?

 

[Yusuf]

I wonder if the S-400 can be really effective against a supersonic target 400 kms away. Let's say if we want to bring down a fighter jet deep inside enemy territory


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[gadeshi]

So u say we don't have any SAM program (indigenous) with 400km?

With equal capabilities and full mobility?
I really dought it.

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[Anikastha]

With equal capabilities and full mobility?
I really dought it.

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Yes.
I have one question.Instead of getting from russia , why don't we have some joint development with Israel / russia?
This may help us in future to design and assemble our own weapons.
@bengalraider need your help.

 

[gadeshi]

I wonder if the S-400 can be really effective against a supersonic target 400 kms away. Let's say if we want to bring down a fighter jet deep inside enemy territory


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With missile speed of 7km/s???
This task actually is easy comparable to CM interception. But S-400 can intercept supersonic CMs on that range.

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[gadeshi]

Yes.
I have one question.Instead of getting from russia , why don't we have some joint development with Israel / russia?
This may help us in future to design and assemble our own weapons.
@bengalraider need your help.

Israel doesn't have equal experience and technologies for this. And getting this, India will receive TOT package.

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[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Why do you think so?
If you ask me being able to swat paki planes in their own airspace pretty much constitutes the just of dominance over enemy skies for me!

So, it is cheaper option than going for Rafales.

Why does it not get highlighted during Rafale talks then?