India not keen on trilateral security pact with Australia, US

[KS]

When India becomes an economic superpower with the largest GDP in the world and a developed infrastructure, and Britain has been reduced to a third-rate island, this should be one of the things that India does.

Nothing better to rile up nationalists and unite the country (perhaps for an up-coming election?) than to face the past and demand compensation for crimes that the West likes to pretend never happened. We can threaten sanctions if they don't hand over the Crown Jewels

We can even export our convicts there ..What say ?

 

[KS]

Proof that Reagan was an idiot and that Reaganomics = crappy economics.

More pertinently it was when the investments into the Soviet jihad started.

 

[civfanatic]

We can even export our convicts there ..What say ?

Sounds like a good idea.

Though the ideal scenario would be to first annex Pakistan, and then deport all Pakistanis to Britain/Australia.

 

[ice berg]

Sounds like a good idea.

Though the ideal scenario would be to first annex Pakistan, and then deport all Pakistanis to Britain/Australia.

You wont have enough boats for that.

 

[Galaxy]

That is because Russian Arms industry needs money more than ever and which country with a huge economy is dependent on them for arms except India ? - US ?no. Japan ? No. China? No. France? No. Germany/UK ? No. Brazil ? No.

I'm not saying it;s entirely for money..ofcourse our strategic interests do coincide with Russia..but mostly its for money.

Maybe because we ourselves have not been trusted allies to US ? Maybe because there is a trust deficit.

I'm not saying the we should become the next SK or Japan...but we can certainly engage the US more closely than now without compromising on the sovereignity.

The assertion that "Russia is dependent on Indian funding for any of her programme including development of PAK-FA and other projects" is simply not true. Since 2005, Russian funding for military R & D projects has come 100% from interbal funds, and not from funds earned through export orders.

Money is always there but that is not everything in such strategic alliance. It doesn't matter actually. We have to pay money in any case then why not pay to Russia for quality technology, Full ToT and other defence related help too ??

Will U.S. sell an Aircraft carrier, F-18 Super Hornet with full ToT, Allowing Israel to sell Arrow-3 to India ?? I don't think so. but on other side, We are buying Aircraft carrier, MKI (which is best Sukhoi fighter jets). Already operating S-300. They helping in ATV and may be ICBM too. This can't be done on basis of money alone. There is no other country which will be like Russia beside Israel, I suppose.

KSA, U.A.E., Turkey, Japan, S.K., Canada, Australia, European countries purchase 100's of Bn $ from U.S. and all of them are their allies/puppet.

Do we want to Buy F-35 without ToT which will be operated by 40 countries and will be under various clause ?? Nope. What we Buying for Russia is independent from our policy. It's friendship of equality and can be trusted for long time to come. U.S. is unreliable in that context. Not to forget, U.S. is officially with Pakistan. Also, Once we move to U.S. camp, Russia will go apart and we will be isolated above Himalayas till Siberia and CAR region too. I do agree that, We need to improve relation with U.S. and we are doing also by Buying transport/surveillance aircraft like C-130J, C-17, P-8i. But buying offensive weapons/Jets would be risky. We need to maintain very good relation with Russia and Good relation with U.S. and IMHO, we are doing the same

 

[KS]

.......But buying offensive weapons/Jets would be risky.

I have always advocated that.

But what I basically differ with you is on the phrase "time tested friend Russia". No. If it had been the USSR I would have agreed..but not Russia.

Time tested friends don't sell engines to mortal enemies for example.

 

[hit&run]

This is seriously annoying that people are pulling out knives here against each other and proving their intellect point on a misleading title. MoD is no one to make foreign policy decisions for India.

 

[civfanatic]

An alliance with the strong is NEVER to be trusted. This is a basic principle of foreign policy, and is why we kept our distance from both superpowers during the Cold War, and why we should keep our distance from the U.S. today.

And before someone says that India was a 'Soviet puppet', try answering these questions:
1) How many Soviet military personnel were ever actively based on Indian soil?
2) How many times did the Soviet Union actively intervene in our internal affairs?
3) How many times did the Soviet Union prevent India from taking unilateral diplomatic/military action?

Now replace the Soviet Union with the U.S. and try answering those questions for Japan, South Korea, or some Latin American country, and you will understand what it means to be a 'puppet'.

 

[JayATL]

More pertinently it was when the investments into the Soviet jihad started.

I hate to promote you guys off topic banter. but really - started what? ... its has had 3 X the amount of GDP over its closest second place rival for decades. it's standard of living will take china and India maybe another 40 years to provide( per capita)... it is a superpower ( military bases all over the world, NATO alliance), its the world 's currency .... You guys talk about it's perceived downfall in such a manner that... it asks for suspension of belief. reaganomics is what India follows too... at least it is emulating majority of it and slowly almost 98% of it in the coming years.

 

[Galaxy]

I have always advocated that.

But what I basically differ with you is on the phrase "time tested friend Russia". No. If it had been the USSR I would have agreed..but not Russia.

Time tested friends don't sell engines to mortal enemies for example.

That doesn't make any difference mate.

Not to forget such 1 engine fighter jet is inferior to same double engine MIG29 which we operating for last 20 years. :thumb:

BTW, We have Sukhoi 30 MKI. We will also operate Super MKI, PAK-FA too. Russia will never sell anything better than us to our neighbours that has been proved in last 5 decades AFAIK.

 

[KS]

And before someone says that India was a 'Soviet puppet', try answering these questions:
1) How many Soviet military personnel were ever actively based on Indian soil?
2) How many times did the Soviet Union actively intervene in our internal affairs?
3) How many times did the Soviet Union prevent India from taking unilateral diplomatic/military action?

.

I said we were aligned with the USSR..not a puppet of USSR. There is a difference.

It was basically in response to a member about our mythical Non aligned policy.

We were always aligned one way or the other.

And BTW I have heard KGB used to run active dis-information campaign in Indian media with the full knowledge of the leaders. Any truth in that ?

Now replace the Soviet Union with the U.S. and try answering those questions for Japan, South Korea, or some Latin American country, and you will understand what it means to be a 'puppet'.

I hate it to say...but only people with inferiority complex towards US will be afraid of getting closer to US citing Japan or SK as examples. Really ? You people are not confident that India for all logical reasons can never be a SK or Japan ? Hanuman Syndrome @ its best.

 

[JayATL]

An alliance with the strong is NEVER to be trusted. This is a basic principle of foreign policy, and is why we kept our distance from both superpowers during the Cold War, and why we should keep our distance from the U.S. today.

And before someone says that India was a 'Soviet puppet', try answering these questions:
1) How many Soviet military personnel were ever actively based on Indian soil?
2) How many times did the Soviet Union actively intervene in our internal affairs?
3) How many times did the Soviet Union prevent India from taking unilateral diplomatic/military action?

Now replace the Soviet Union with the U.S. and try answering those questions for Japan, South Korea, or some Latin American country, and you will understand what it means to be a 'puppet'.

pure nonsense if I ever read one. you are stuck on the " emotional puppet" and we are talking real world foreign policies. you can scream how many this and that - but in reality US knew India was under the protection of USSR. That reality is what drives action or non action towards another country ... not your " how many bases and military personel reside in one's country".

 

[KS]

That doesn't make any difference mate.

Not to forget such 1 engine fighter jet is inferior to same double engine MIG29 which we operating for last 20 years. :thumb:

BTW, We have Sukhoi 30 MKI. We will also operate Super MKI, PAK-FA too. Russia will never sell anything better than us to our neighbours that has been proved in last 5 decades AFAIK.

Still a PAF without JF-17 is weaker than a PAF with JF-17. Agree ?

 

[civfanatic]

I said we were aligned with the USSR..not a puppet of USSR. There is a difference.

My post wasn't directed to you anyway.

And BTW I have heard KGB used to run active dis-information campaign in Indian media with the full knowledge of the leaders. Any truth in that ?

It's quite possible, the KGB were the largest intelligence agency in the world and were particularly influential in the Third World.

 

[KS]

My post wasn't directed to you anyway.

My post was still directed to you

 

[civfanatic]

pure nonsense if I ever read one. you are stuck on the " emotional puppet" and we are talking real world foreign policies. you can scream how many this and that - but in reality US knew India was under the protection of USSR. That reality is what drives action or non action towards another country ... not your " how many bases and military personel reside in one's country".

If we were a U.S. ally in 1971 do you think we could have taken unilateral action against Pakistan?

No way. We would just receive some lecture on human rights, democracy, liberty, etc. and how Pakistan is the epitome of all the above and how its sovereignty should always be respected.

But thankfully our leaders had enough sense to avoid becoming a puppet, and by signing the Indo-Soviet Mutual Co-Op Treaty were were able to successfully deter American intervention.

 

[Galaxy]

Still a PAF without JF-17 is weaker than a PAF with JF-17. Agree ?

Our threat is F-16 and J-10 and not jf-17 . Jf-17 won't make any difference to us. It's more like a defensive fighter jets which even Chinese don't operate. Jf-17 is cheap and crap jet and even Tejas MK1 will be much better.

Read the thread @ http://defenceforumindia.com/china-pakistan/28102-chinese-jf-17-cheap-competition-f-16-a.html

They would have bought engine from elsewhere if Russia denied. Europe, China, Ukraine.

Indeed, Russia is not reluctant to sell those engine to China any more. In anycase, it doesn't make any difference to us to be very frank. Russia sold because it doesn't make difference to us nor we asked such things to Russia.

Now, Pak is planning to buy from Ukraine.

Ukraine Wins Engine Contract for Chinese L-15 Jet Trainer Production | Aviation International News

 

[KS]

Our threat is F-16 and J-10 and not jf-17 . Jf-17 won't make any difference to us. It's more like a defensive fighter jets which even Chinese don't operate. Jf-17 is cheap and crap jet and even Tejas will be much better.

Buddy I don't want to derail the thread. But still I believe its a decent third (or even 3.5 gen) fighter out there good for their defences. If not for the engine, those Bandars wont be flying and Russia provided the engines.

 

[ice berg]

It is all business for the Russians. What is the big fuss.

 

[civfanatic]

I hate it to say...but only people with inferiority complex towards US will be afraid of getting closer to US citing Japan or SK as examples. Really ? You people are not confident that India for all logical reasons can never be a SK or Japan ? Hanuman Syndrome @ its best.

What is so attractive about being like Japan or SK from a foreign policy standpoint? Their defense is entirely in the hands of a foreign country and they have almost no options to act assertively in diplomacy. The last thing India needs is to lose its independence a second time and become even more castrated that it already is.

The real people with an inferiority complex are the ones who think India has no future unless it bends over to the West in every possible way.