India Must Choose Both China and Japan

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Not quite true. Buddha was against corruption in brahmins. Priests started taking more and more money/stuff for doing things, thus forgetting the spirit of rituals, forgetting the meaning behind teh rituals and so on. So what he wanted to stop that and go back what they were really meant for. Of course he had his own ideas on what they were.

A lot of american/european outsider sources these days seem to have added this part about anti-casteism. But these is little evidence about him being against caste. In fact a large majority of followers were from kashatriya and brahmin lines.

Refer here: Koenraad Elst: The Buddha and Caste

If nothing else, the prediction of the next buddha is probably the most telling one:


I think people confuse his reform with societal reform, remember back then, caste was not seen as bad, or maybe it was not corrupted yet, and there was mobility which it lost out later (became hereditary)
I didnt said its the only reson but one of the main reson. I being from a dalit/sc background have a first hand experience and tellings from my fathers and forefathers about this issue. Bhim rao ambedkar who almost single handedly wrote the constituion of india himself was sick of this stupid hindu concept of unequality/ casteism and decided to convert into buddhism 4 yrs prior to his death. Many have hence converted to budhism or christianity or jainism.
For me theres no pride in saying that i belong from a hindu religion. Maybe for upper class but not us.
One of the reson British rule has been also seen as a silverlining is coz they wer the first to prohibite this stupid concept.

The people you are say brahmins and kshatriya have took a learned decision to convert and there can be many resons for it. But the main reson for low caste people(who are majority) to convert from hinduism to buddhism or christianity is unequality and casteism.
 

Ray

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ma'am @roma is busy nagging and giving a slap on everyone with stickers good bad ugly joker"¦"¦yawning... none valid.

back to choosing Japan or China, even before the honeymoon ecstacy is over Indians will realize there're no freebies as usual. despite grandiose commitments and sweet talks shrewd Japanese will evaluate every single project back in business-is-business mode. like in past deals with Chinese all the soft loans were made in JP Yen and tied up with procurement of JP products. there involved huge loss often incurred by exchange rate fluctuations. as for defence deals, come on, India, unlike China, has already had a wide range of suppliers, American, French, Italian and Russian. the addition of Japanese though seemingly enhancing yr bargaining position, will only lead to spreading out yr orders thinly further. consider how yr relations with Russia would b diluted when yr orders dry up for them!

keep yr feet on the ground!

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There is nothing called freebies as there is nothing called a free lunch.

It is not the Japanese alone who fine toothcomb every project. It is universal except for Communist countries who put ideological peddling at a premium.



like in past deals with Chinese all the soft loans were made in JP Yen and tied up with procurement of JP products. there involved huge loss often incurred by exchange rate fluctuations.
Unlike what they did for China, Japan has a greater bonhomie and trust with India, as this will indicate.
Maruti to pay Suzuki royalty in rupees
It currently pays royalties in yen

Maruti to pay Suzuki royalty in rupees | Business Standard News
As Singh would say - kar le gal!!




In so far as defence deal is concerned, India will go for the best deal. Nations don't matter that much. Nothing wrong in India not only 'Looking East', but also 'Acting East'.

For First Time Since World War 2, Japan Will Sell Military Equipment. To India.

The specialised sea-plane, the US-2, will be Japan's first overseas military sale in nearly 50 years. Because it provides landings on sea and land, the plane will significantly enhance the Indian Navy's ability to carry out, casualty evacuations, deliver humanitarian assistance and conduct long-range surveillance and reconnaissance.

In keeping with Mr Modi's emphasis on developing military technology indigenously to check India's dependence on foreign defence manufacturers, the US-2 planes will be made in India. The Indian Navy has been lobbying to get 15 of these.
For First Time Since World War 2, Japan Will Sell Military Equipment. To India.
Boeing Chinook Wins Indian Helicopter Competition


The Indian Air Force will fly Boeing's CH-47F Chinook helicopter. (ISAF)
Boeing Chinook Wins Indian Helicopter Competition | Defense News | defensenews.com
Light-utility choppers to be made in India, not imported

Instead, the Arun Jaitley-led defence acquisitions council (DAC) decided all the 384 light-utility helicopters needed by the Army and IAF to replace their ageing Cheetah/Chetak fleets will be made in India with foreign collaboration.

The step will boost the indigenous defence production sector, and is in tune with Modi's exhortation to global companies to "come, make in India". Top defence ministry officials, in fact, said the "buy and make Indian" categorization of the light-utility helicopters had the potential to give Rs 40,000 crore worth of business to the domestic industry.

But there was better news on other helicopter fronts, even as the DAC cleared military modernisation proposals worth around Rs 20,000 crore. Ahead of Modi's visit to the US next month, two major deals worth $2.5 billion for the iconic American Apache attack and Chinook heavy-lift helicopters cleared the last hurdle when the DAC approved the revised offsets packages submitted by aviation major Boeing.

Light-utility choppers to be made in India, not imported - The Times of India
 
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Free Karma

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stupid hindu concept of unequality/ casteism and decided to convert into buddhism 4 yrs prior to his death. Many have hence converted to budhism or christianity or jainism.
For me theres no pride in saying that i belong from a hindu religion. Maybe for upper class but not us.
One of the reson British rule has been also seen as a silverlining is coz they wer the first to prohibite this stupid concept.

The people you are say brahmins and kshatriya have took a learned decision to convert and there can be many resons for it. But the main reson for low caste people(who are majority) to convert from hinduism to buddhism or christianity is unequality and casteism.
You completely missed my point of the previous post. Which was that buddhism never condemnded the caste system. It simply never spoke about it. go through the link. The idea that it was anti caste etc seems to have come later mostly from outside sources.
 

Ancient Indian

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@jus
You should stop speaking about a religion which is far older than your comprehending brain can get. A load of posts you have posted shows that you are ignorant about what goes around your own country.
Hinduthva does not mean what today Indian intellectuals preach on about.
It does not say about various Gods we worship today.
It is about the answers you will find when you inquire about your self.
What did Vivekananda preached in Chicago ?
You should read more about him and the thing called Raja Yoga.
If you say that Buddha is not a Hindu god then come and visit our houses. We have a photo frame for him in our puja mandhir.
A god in Indian perception is about the personality which goes through various hardships the life through at you.
For example,
Lord Rama is worshiped. Why? You should ask some old man around you. It is not some word written by Valmiki so that future generation should worship him. He is a person you should get inspiration from when you face challenges your life through at you.
If you following Dharma, then read more about Purushardha and dharmaraja in Mahabharath, not some article randomly posted on internet.
You are already degrading your own culture on international stage. There are people from all over the world who read your post.
As for your rant about equality in our society,
First of all you should stop making faces when you see a brown skin acid attack victim.
Why don't you take lunch with some street beggar ?
Why don't you attempt to show affection to some street kid who plays in the sewage water when you go by a slum near your home.
you're just one of those idiots who live in extra-nice homes and preach about India on internet.
tl;dr don't argue about some thing which you don't know even drop of it.
 
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Ashutosh Lokhande

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You completely missed my point of the previous post. Which was that buddhism never condemnded the caste system. It simply never spoke about it. go through the link. The idea that it was anti caste etc seems to have come later mostly from outside sources.
Ohh ok. Sorry i have not cheked your link you mentioned there. Ill get back to you in some time after i get free. after carefully reading about it.
 

roma

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You have no idea of what "Dharma" is
Dharama is a relative term which varies as the yoga changes.
The dharma of Treata yuga is different from the dharma of Dwapara yuga.
Indus saraswati civilization has roots inside interior India, migrations happened from east to west as river saraswati dried.
Besides myself i'm sure there wold be many others who would be
most grateful if Sninivas-ji could somehow tell us more on this subject i.e.
the various forms of youga - the two you mentioned here are unknown to me
- ....perhaps in a different thread ,inthe culture section

alternatively pls send pm to me as where such topics are discussed.
No doubt i will do google search on my own,
but any inputs from srinivas-ji would be most appreciated.
 

Srinivas_K

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Besides myself i'm sure there wold be many others who would be
most grateful if Sninivas-ji could somehow tell us more on this subject i.e.
the various forms of youga - the two you mentioned here are unknown to me
- ....perhaps in a different thread ,inthe culture section

alternatively pls send pm to me as where such topics are discussed.
No doubt i will do google search on my own,
but any inputs from srinivas-ji would be most appreciated.
Hi Roma,

I also read from google and also watch documentaries on youtube.

Treta Yuga is the time when Rama was born, people of that age are innocent, truth seeking, GOD fearing and are obedient to laws. So the Dharma is different, i.e what Lord Rama showed in Ramayan how to be a good person.

Dwapara Yuga is the time of Mahabharata, where people are some what devious, wicked for power and treacherous like Kauravas. Krishna showed how the situation should be dealt using BhagavadGita. Here the Dharama is different and the path followed by Krishna is different from Rama.

If we think in terms of scientific terms. In Treta Yuga the period of Ram , Mansoons are in time, water is available, land is fertile , crops are good. So for people of that age food ,shelter and wealth is not a problem so people are relatively good compared to other yugas.

As the Yugas change the climate and other factors on earth also vary, famine, natural disasters also occur which makes it difficult to find basic necessities for the people, this leads to corruption and violence here the Dharma should be different.

There are four types of yugas

The ages see a gradual decline of dharma, wisdom, knowledge, intellectual capability, life span, emotional and physical strength.

Satya Yuga:- Virtue reigns supreme. Human stature was 21 cubits. Average human lifespan was 100,000 years.

Treta Yuga: – There was 3 quarter virtue & 1 quarter sin. Normal human stature was 14 cubits. Average human lifespan was 10,000 years.

Dwapar Yuga: – There was 1 half virtue & 1 half sin. Normal human stature was 7 cubits. Average human lifespan was 1000 years.

Kali Yuga: – There is 1 quarter virtue & 3 quarter sin. Normal human stature is 3.5 cubits. Average human lifespan will be 100 years. Towards the end of the Yuga this will come down to 20 years.

At the end of Kaliyuga lot of disasters will struck the planet, human loss etc...etc...


Once the Kaliyuga is over the conditions on earth will again become good , food will be abundant, wealth ,peace and prosperity will be there in society .i.e the earth enters into Satya Yuga.

The cycle continues .........

Basically it is the conditions on earth, cosmos and extra territrial affects that dictate the human behavior and the Dharma.

Dharma is the rule that stabilizes (some kind balance) each time some offshoot happens due to various changes on the earth

The system on earth has to be kept stable all the times. Humans are a small part of various things that are in this stable system. Dharma as a rule applies to all the factors and creatures on earth.

This rule is relative to time.

I will mention you or PM you if such topics are discussed :thumb:

I do have a group of intellectuals for discussions in my leisure times at my place, where we go through some of these topics :)

I just correlated the scientific studies with Dharma to write this , I may not be completely right.

Feel free to forward any questions in this regard. I will answer according to my understanding.
 
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Zebra

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Vishnu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buddhism
Uthpalawarna Vishnu Devalaya in Devinuwara, Matara, Sri Lanka

While some Hindus consider Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu, Buddhists in Sri Lanka venerate Vishnu as the custodian deity of Sri Lanka and protector of Buddhism. Lord Vishnu is also known as upulvan, or uthpala varna, meaning "Blue Lotus coloured".Some postulates that Uthpala varna was a local deity who later merged with Vishnu while another belief is that Uthpala Varna was an early form of Vishnu before he became a supreme deity in Puranic Hinduism. According to Chronicles "Mahawamsa", "Chulawamsa" and folklore in Sri Lanka, Buddha himself handed over the custodianship to Vishnu. Others believe that Buddha entrusted this task to Sakra(Indra) and Sakra delegated this task of custodianship to god Vishnu. In contrary to vedic Hinduism, in assimilation of Hindu god Vishnu into Sinhalese Buddhism, Vishnu becomes a mortal being and a Bodhisattva aspiring Buddhahood. Additionally, Vishnu is considered as the god of home and hearth representing mercy, goodness, order and stability. Many Buddhist and Hindu shrines are dedicated to Vishnu in Sri Lanka. In addition to specific Vishnu "Kovils" or "devalayas", all Buddhist temples necessarily house shrine rooms (Devalayas) closer to the main Buddhist shrine dedicated to Vishnu. John Holt in his groundbreaking study examines the assimilation, transformation, and subordination of the Hindu deity Vishnu within the contexts of Sri Lankan history and Sinhala Buddhist religious culture. He then explores the role and rationale of medieval Sinhala kings in assimilating Visnu into Sinhala Buddhism.[52] According to Holt the veneration of Vishnu in Sri Lanka is evidence of a remarkable ability, over many centuries, to reiterate and reinvent culture as other ethnicities have been absorbed into their own. Though the Vishnu cult in Ceylon was formally endorsed by Kandyan kings in early 1700s, Holt states that vishnu images and shrines are among conspicuous ruins in the medieval capital Polonnaruwa. In Buddhist mythology,when Vishnu failed to traverse the universe in three steps,he was given the title "Ardha Vishnu (Half-Vishnu)" and when Vishnu banished demons from the Vaishali (Vishala)in India, he became "Mulu Vishnu or Whole Vishnu". The extreme significance of god Vishnu in Sinhala society is reflected in recitals of the traditional " Offerings to dwarfs and crossing the door frame (bahirwayanta dola pideem saha uluwahu peneema)" that starts with Sri Vishnu invocation.In the recitals,mentioning of the aspiring Buddhahood of Vishnu which is of prime importance to Buddhists and wishes for him to live five thousand and more years highlight the central role of Vishnu in the psyche of Sri Lankan Buddhists.



(Uthpalawarna Vishnu Devalaya in Devinuwara, Matara, Sri Lanka)
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Not quite true. Buddha was against corruption in brahmins. Priests started taking more and more money/stuff for doing things, thus forgetting the spirit of rituals, forgetting the meaning behind teh rituals and so on. He wanted to stop that and go back what they were really meant for. Of course he had his own ideas on what they were.

A lot of american/european outsider sources these days seem to have added this part about anti-casteism. But these is little evidence about him being against caste. In fact a large majority of followers were from kashatriya and brahmin lines.

Refer here: Koenraad Elst: The Buddha and Caste

If nothing else, the prediction of the next buddha is probably the most telling one:


I think people confuse his reform with societal reform, remember back then, caste was not seen as bad, or maybe it was not corrupted yet, and there was mobility which it lost out later (became hereditary)
Ya ive read the article and also some of my additional personel research.

I came to conclusion that even though buddhism didnt really rode on equality and they did enroll majority of upper caste but still equality was the concept of buddhism which wooed ambedkar. He also had different option like islam and christianity but he didnt chose those coz he was a nationalist and thoutght he choosing choosing those might weaken the nationalist sentiments of the lower caste people he was representing.
As buddhism had many simaliraties with hinduism he tought it would be easier for the masses to accept and follow it.

But my point i was stating earlier was
the main reson for the dalit and untouchable caste people to convert was unequality in hinduism.
Thats the reson for these people to convert into different religions like sikhism;christianity and buddhism which had the concept of equality.



My source- http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english/world/figure/002-ambedkar.htm
 

Ashutosh Lokhande

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@Ashutosh Lokhande @Srinivas_K @roma @syamal Ok now i'm leaving this discussion,Now a days i conc. only on Religion of Peace &MO. :lol: I will get back to u after a long break,enjoy the stay :rofl:
I will miss you as i appreciate people with different views than me which makes the discussions and debates on DFI so intresting. Hope you not leaving this forum for too long. :cheers:
 
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prohumanity

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Well nano tech & genetics can infiltrate your top brass and alter the very decision to fire the nukes. They could enter the deepest recesses of your mind and could steal, even change your launch codes,or even fire your own weapons at you. With an AI army at your command, nations like India & China will loose the conventional edge they have in terms of numbers that they currently have. Hell even the American/western public wouldn't care how many died because they wouldn't have any casualties.

Your hypothesis sounds good for WW2 tech. How many people had heard of the atom bomb before the Americans used it during WW2? well its been 69 years now, and the US has been researching all the while. WW3 is certainly not gonna be fought with those primitive weapons. Its gonna see a whole new range of game changing weapons, things you couldn't even dream of.

Seems like you have been reading too many tom claincy, mystery type novels...This is also, part of the propaganda war . This "game changing" phrase is often heard these days...May be its true..the game is really changing but against the hegemonistic powers who wants to make the world afraid and
only think in terms of who can destroy who. Many kids believe these so called "game changing video games" but real life is not those violent video games. Warmongers and fear mongers can only influence kids with their imaginary scenarios. Future belongs to peace mongers....whether peace returns after WW3 or before it. You say they wiill not care how many die...i think most western people are good and do care about others lives...only a few who control policies and benefit from sale of weapons ..want to mess with other countries to increase demand for their weapons.
These so called "game changing" weapons are part of the advertisement ..you won't understand this living in Mumbai. Economies are in recession..many need to sell weapons to prop up their economies by making billions of dollars. Creating enmity and wars increase their profits.
If ,lets say , you are correct that they have weapons which can get into deepest recess of mind and steal and change your thinking ...Why not start with changing the thinking a bunch of ISIS criminals..Al Quada thugs ... show us the magic of your fantasy weapons by changing ONE BLOODY ISIS devil. Oh really, killing a lot of Chinese or Indians , they will not have any casualties....You are really in an imaginary world and out of touch with reality....IN USA, I have not met anyone who think like you do ...and I have met thousands of people in US. 99% Americans are in reality and understand and hate wars...sometimes the govt. doesn't listen to the public.

One last point, YES, India can and should choose not only Japan and China but also, time tested old friend, Russia ...knowledge nation...USA ...and all its neighbors including Pakistan (Paki ..some day when it is governed by sane and truly friendly leaders)
 
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Ancient Indian

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I think you people are not watching History channel show - American-Alien s**t.
They say that they have contacts with aliens and they are learning a lot of tech from their alien friends.
We, as weak and still developing nations, should be wary of these cases.
 

prohumanity

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My main point was that it is foolish policy to de-stabilse nations who do not follow the western line. Some policy makers, funded by vested interests have hijacked the foreign policy of this great nation to use US for their own protection. See the result for yourself...to destroy, Soviet Union, Mujahideens were created by US+Saudi Arabia+Pakistan..and what we got? after a few years..Al Qauida and Taliban. When Egypt was destabilsed..what we got?...Islamic brotherhood type thugs... When Syria was destabilized by arming Anti- Assad terrorists....what we got? the mother of all evil..ISIS.
Look at Libya....a hot mess ! To de-stabise Ukraine..when Anti-Yanukowich militants were funded and encouraged..what we got? A civil war in Ukraine. BUT, a fool is one who keeps repeating the same mistake and never learns from it.
I can imagine what we will get..if Russia, India or China is de stabilsed..but as I say.fools never learn from their follies and unfortunately those handful are in power and has capacity to mislead this amazing land called USA. Most Americans don't want to keep repeating the blunders which have been tarnishing the image of this land of liberty and justice for all.
 
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The worst thing that can happen is if Russia starts backing terrorist /anti western nations with
Money and weapons. If sco gains steam that can also be a threat. I do not think Russia would
Hesitate to do damage. Asymmetric warfare already started with cyber attacks against usa.
 

amoy

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The worst thing that can happen is if Russia starts backing terrorist /anti western nations with
Money and weapons. If sco gains steam that can also be a threat. I do not think Russia would
Hesitate to do damage. Asymmetric warfare already started with cyber attacks against usa.
on a positive note India gets less and less dependent on Russian defence tech and eqpmt while turning to sourcing fm Japan and other western suppliers. on the other hand, meantime energy-rich Russia pivots to Asia highly compatible with China as a consumer goods producer. going forward America and China will certainly work out better ways btwn a status-quo-ist and a revisionist for peaceful coexistence across the broad Pacific, and fleecing those lesser (wannabe) powers together.

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