India is a factor - Former Sri Lankan Defence Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapaksa

[Indx TechStyle]

I bet India has more pressing issues than watching Sri Lanka turns into a Cuba.

We have been solving em at home, at devil's pace. India sustains one of highest per capita income growth & HDI gains since start of century.
It will enter in "highly developed" category too around 2022 (planned by government), must not be your business.

We are talking about bilateral relations.

No country on earth have an effective deterrence against Nuclear tipped misses. Therefore I take your over optimism very disturbing. India won't be able to save her self from a nuclear fallout, nor can China. That is why prevention is practiced by more sane countries.

In what way? If India has 87% chances of shooting down ballistic & cruise missiles, obviously 13% is chances of being ruined.

But hey, I'm not 100% comfortable and not saying India will stop everything (though with integration of all sorts of final commands, India will go very close to 100% kill capability but it will only be close).
Your shield may have some holes but it gives more chances to survive & win a nuclear conflict when your enemy doesn't even has a shield.

This is not about border warfare. China don't come to Sri Lanka (If they ever did) to start a border conflict with India. Mind that.

Hell! You read their mind? If not for threatening, for what they will come on a small island in India's outskirts?

Does that even count? What importance does strait of Hormuz hold to India when compared with straits of Malacca to China. Don't put forth stupid arguments.

Entire issue depends on consumption! China consumes & needs more.

Other thing, India has been filling it's strategic oil reserves for energy security at wartime level. It automatically reduces concerns for India but it's no argument to justify Chinese intrusion in your countries.

Sri Lanka has does not need any civil nuclear deal with India. That is far too much burden for Sri Lanka.

Yah, creation of Chinese ghost city like infra & its failure and then paying of China for their own projects loss, isn't a burden.

Seriously, being anti India and demeaning every Indian initiative, praising communists has become very fashionable in South Asia.
When people will understand, China's revolution was for itself, it's not here for any goodwill for South Asians but for just making moneyn

Besides goodwill visits of friendly warships are not a concern to Sri Lankans.

If these warships show "badwill" against some other country and bombed inside the base will really become a concern for you.

China never imposed projects on Sri Lanka unlike India.

India didn't ask you to pay the money that even massive for it's own failed project.

And who told you your all projects were started on Sri Lankan will?

Issues of current incompetent Sri Lankan government is not a fault of China nor the previous government of Sri Lanka.

Issue of current government is blunder commited by previous one. Happy paying back or leasing them the port. Your friends have already realised what has happened to you and you too will see sooner or later.

In fact India has not supported Sri Lanka with economic aid. All India has done was to built some houses for the displaced Tamils and rebuild the railroad to Northern Province just to appease Tamils living in Sri Lanka and Tamilnadu. Besides, all the other proposed Indian aided projects have benefits only to India. Sri Lanka don't need a friendly country like that.

Aren't those Tamils your people. Doesn't their peace & prosperity ensures your security? Do you know the importance of connecting nation's parts for flow of money.

FYI, from last decade, India & Sri Lanka having a high number of deaths in conflicts have not even left it 10% of then while most others managed just downing 60%.

Credit goes to calming the minorities down.

They can't put a permanent bases in IOR. It's too volatile. Chinese knows that.

They have put one in Djibouti already, other one will go in Pakistan, almost confirmed. So, third are you.

Sri Lanka had massive debts even before the Chinese ones. Therefore it's not a much difference.

You guys talked about leasing the port. Just check out the figures 10 years ago & now.

The only escape from debts is through the projects funded by Chinese.

You are not getting it again!

If Chinese funded projects are able to make profits, you will pay China off, they will leave and you will enjoy them. But, if.they are not able to earn as expected, you yourself will have to pay the China back!

That's the entire issue.

 

[pringles]

Military ships of friendly countries do come by Sri Lankan ports. That is not a abnormal things. You Indians have taken such a goodwill visits too seriously. How can Chinese shipping base located at the tip of Southern Sri Lanka could threaten India? Would you care to explain.

Sure.

Having a small proxy to attack India is China's way of ensuring deniability. First they make 'friendly visits', but behind the scenes their ELINT units are recording our traffic and other frequencies. If China has to put a limited amount of pressure on India in the future, without escalating it to a full scale war over the Tibet region, they can simply use this 'friendly' conduit to station missiles in Sri Lanka or transfer weapons tech to Sri Lanka and attack India. This will create a third front for India in addition to Pakistan and China and make India split its resources in three directions.

This is what India will not allow at any cost. If China is allowed to create this capability, India will have to at least double its defense expenditure to maintain the status quo. It's not worth the price for us. We'd much rather prevent a China-Sri Lanka friendship from emerging.

If you want to host 'friendly Chinese navy ships' on your ports, going by the cliched "my life, my choice" rhetoric, also have the courage to say "my consequences". You allow friendly Chinese navy ships on your ports, we allow friendly Tamils to take military training in India, it will all be a very friendly affair.

Sri Lanka is just beginning to come out of a civil war and the economy is going up, relish it and stay on a constructive path. Another civil war is not going to help your country any bit.

 

[HeinzGud]

In what way? If India has 87% chances of shooting down ballistic & cruise missiles, obviously 13% is chances of being ruined.

But hey, I'm not 100% comfortable and not saying India will stop everything (though with integration of all sorts of final commands, India will go very close to 100% kill capability but it will only be close).
Your shield may have some holes but it gives more chances to survive & win a nuclear conflict when your enemy doesn't even has a shield.

In every way. Stopping missiles is difficult process even in this day and age. Not even US or Russia has the capability of complete missile defense.

In doesn't matter whether your enemy has a shield or not. Both you and your enemy will enter into a MAD situation.

Hell! You read their mind? If not for threatening, for what they will come on a small island in India's outskirts?

I don't need to read mind to deduce that. It's simple geopolitics. China has financial obligations in Sri Lanka. They have made some investments in the island. They just need to know whether their investments are bearing any fruits.

Entire issue depends on consumption! China consumes & needs more.

Other thing, India has been filling it's strategic oil reserves for energy security at wartime level. It automatically reduces concerns for India but it's no argument to justify Chinese intrusion in your countries.

China can't close the strait of Hormuz for Indian shipping,, let alone the oil shipments from the Gulf in the manner that India can control the strait of Malacca. India can literally stop any Chinese ingress into IOR from Malacca.

Yah, creation of Chinese ghost city like infra & its failure and then paying of China for their own projects loss, isn't a burden.

Seriously, being anti India and demeaning every Indian initiative, praising communists has become very fashionable in South Asia.
When people will understand, China's revolution was for itself, it's not here for any goodwill for South Asians but for just making moneyn

China has not created any ghost cities in Sri Lanka. All of the Chinese funded projects are economical if properly managed. The current crisis has sprung up from mismanagement of these facilities for political vendetta.

If these warships show "badwill" against some other country and bombed inside the base will really become a concern for you.

Only "IF" the situation arrives and only "IF" the ships are based in Sri Lanka. As of today nothing of such is happening.

India didn't ask you to pay the money that even massive for it's own failed project.

And who told you your all projects were started on Sri Lankan will?

The Hambantota harbor project was first given to India for funds. India turned it down. Then only it was awarded to China.

Who says those projects started without Sri Lankans will? and what are those projects?

Issue of current government is blunder commited by previous one. Happy paying back or leasing them the port. Your friends have already realised what has happened to you and you too will see sooner or later.

No blunder was committed by the previous government.

Aren't those Tamils your people. Doesn't their peace & prosperity ensures your security? Do you know the importance of connecting nation's parts for flow of money.

FYI, from last decade, India & Sri Lanka having a high number of deaths in conflicts have not even left it 10% of then while most others managed just downing 60%.

Credit goes to calming the minorities down.

It is as if those Tamils are regarded as part of Indians by India. That's besides the point. Indian aid regarding the housing and rebuilding the railway line is commendable. But, that is not Sri Lanka's top priority right now. Sri Lanka needs methods to generate income. Sri Lanka needs developments that generates income. Unless such developments are funded Sri Lankans cannot view Indians as being Pro-Sri Lanka.

They have put one in Djibouti already, other one will go in Pakistan, almost confirmed. So, third are you.

Sri Lanka is different from those countries.

You guys talked about leasing the port. Just check out the figures 10 years ago & now.

That was a stupid decision by the current Sri Lankan government.

You are not getting it again!

If Chinese funded projects are able to make profits, you will pay China off, they will leave and you will enjoy them. But, if.they are not able to earn as expected, you yourself will have to pay the China back!

That's the entire issue.

India can intertwine and pay off the Chinese debt then. Thereafter China won't be able to come to Sri Lankan aid.

 

[HeinzGud]

Sure.

Having a small proxy to attack India is China's way of ensuring deniability. First they make 'friendly visits', but behind the scenes their ELINT units are recording our traffic and other frequencies. If China has to put a limited amount of pressure on India in the future, without escalating it to a full scale war over the Tibet region, they can simply use this 'friendly' conduit to station missiles in Sri Lanka or transfer weapons tech to Sri Lanka and attack India. This will create a third front for India in addition to Pakistan and China and make India split its resources in three directions.

This is what India will not allow at any cost. If China is allowed to create this capability, India will have to at least double its defense expenditure to maintain the status quo. It's not worth the price for us. We'd much rather prevent a China-Sri Lanka friendship from emerging.

If you want to host 'friendly Chinese navy ships' on your ports, going by the cliched "my life, my choice" rhetoric, also have the courage to say "my consequences". You allow friendly Chinese navy ships on your ports, we allow friendly Tamils to take military training in India, it will all be a very friendly affair.

Sri Lanka is just beginning to come out of a civil war and the economy is going up, relish it and stay on a constructive path. Another civil war is not going to help your country any bit.

China can only use their ELINT units only if they have a suitable base in Sri Lanka. If they put up such a base India can use covert ops to disrupt Chinese operations. Mind that India have a control over the Tamils and Muslims in Sri Lanka.

 

[sthf]

@HeinzGud Let's be honest here. You made some historical mistakes. We made some historical mistakes. We both made mistakes. I for one, as does the PM of India believes that let bygones be bygones.

Also, I don't mind that you are putting China as a shield against India. It is understandable that a small country like yours would do this to ensure your survival.

Problem is that you have shoved your head so far up China's ass that you cannot see (or refuse to see) that Chinis are shitting all over you with their economic colonization and that paints a scary picture.

 

[HeinzGud]

@HeinzGud Let's be honest here. You made some historical mistakes. We made some historical mistakes. We both made mistakes. I for one, as does the PM of India believes that let bygones be bygones.

Also, I don't mind that you are putting China as a shield against India. It is understandable that a small country like yours would do this to ensure your survival.

Problem is that you have shoved your head so far up China's ass that you cannot see (or refuse to see) that Chinis are shitting all over you with their economic colonization and that paints a scary picture.

We only have China to assist in our economic revival. India should understand that simple fact. Sri Lanka has no intention in meddling with Indo-China affairs.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

In every way. Stopping missiles is difficult process even in this day and age. Not even US or Russia has the capability of complete missile defense.

Difficult but not impossible, I agree that no country has complete missile defence but it can be brought down to fraction.
Today, India has reached the limit wherever others can.

In doesn't matter whether your enemy has a shield or not. Both you and your enemy will enter into a MAD situation.

MAD becomes insignificant when magnitude damage on one side is fraction of other.

I don't need to read mind to deduce that. It's simple geopolitics. China has financial obligations in Sri Lanka. They have made some investments in the island. They just need to know whether their investments are bearing any fruits.

What I'm saying? You hosted their massive projects and because the port didn't bear results, you'll have to pay back.

Or you will find an easy way to.dodge it by leasing them port.

China can't close the strait of Hormuz for Indian shipping,, let alone the oil shipments from the Gulf in the manner that India can control the strait of Malacca. India can literally stop any Chinese ingress into IOR from Malacca.

Really, they got a military base directly in horn of Africa, they are even possibly having their strategic forces deployed in gulf, your country is left for more logistics support.

China has not created any ghost cities in Sri Lanka.

I'm comparing your crisis & failed projects to ghost cities who consumed investments but didn't bear results.

All of the Chinese funded projects are economical if properly managed. The current crisis has sprung up from mismanagement of these facilities for political vendetta.

Mismanagement? Or your idiocy to invite such large investment at first place?

You are a small country with low population and HDI in order of 0.75.
Simply a mature economy. Do you expect exponential growth in consumption in your case? You already either produce or able to import whatever you need. This port was a wastage to time & money by your previous pro communist government to appease China.

Only "IF" the situation arrives and only "IF" the ships are based in Sri Lanka. As of today nothing of such is happening.

It happened! Chinese subs reached your country, you are likely to lease H'tota, keep connecting the further dots.

The Hambantota harbor project was first given to India for funds. India turned it down. Then only it was awarded to China.

India at max. provides investment in a project just around 20% of Chinese plans in same project.
One reason is smaller economy for now and the other you saw.

Who says those projects started without Sri Lankans will? and what are those projects?

H'tota! What did it bear?

No blunder was committed by the previous government.

That's why people kicked it out?

It is as if those Tamils are regarded as part of Indians by India. That's besides the point. Indian aid regarding the housing and rebuilding the railway line is commendable. But, that is not Sri Lanka's top priority right now. Sri Lanka needs methods to generate income. Sri Lanka needs developments that generates income. Unless such developments are funded Sri Lankans cannot view Indians as being Pro-Sri Lanka.

Then, the priority must be urbanization & digitization first along with a denser grid of roads inside country where SL still lags instead of making ports.

Sri Lanka is different from those countries.

Prove it! Don't get down with commies.

That was a stupid decision by the current Sri Lankan government.

What would have previous government done if it was in power today?

In fact, what it "could" have done? Because no option seems to be left. It was a blunder.

India can intertwine and pay off the Chinese debt then. Thereafter China won't be able to come to Sri Lankan aid.

Came on track!

 

[sthf]

We only have China to assist in our economic revival. India should understand that simple fact. Sri Lanka has no intention in meddling with Indo-China affairs.

Well now you do and how is that working out for you guys?

 

[Ancient Indian]

We only have China to assist in our economic revival. India should understand that simple fact. Sri Lanka has no intention in meddling with Indo-China affairs.

China-Srilanka relationship is more than economic, right?

The way you killed LTTE guys. Sri Lankans are not capable of killing like that.

 

[F-14B]

We only have China to assist in our economic revival. India should understand that simple fact. Sri Lanka has no intention in meddling with Indo-China affairs.

@HeinzGud, its all interest nothing personal as far as we are concerned Chinese investments in the Greater Indian Ocean Region are of concern to us especially if that investment includes a small island on the doorstep of India and that investment "coincidently" includes a port city and add to that Boomers visiting the port
Not nice at all for India as the greater indian ocean region is our pond a Mear è nostrum if you may

And cylone hasn't really being good with us
Historically you have supported our stunches enemy (no marks for guessing) both in 65 and 71
Let me be brutally hontest with you
We dont care wather you win or lose
For us our intrest are paramount

 

[HeinzGud]

China-Srilanka relationship is more than economic, right?

The way you killed LTTE guys. Sri Lankans are not capable of killing like that.

What you mean "Killing like that"?

 

[Ancient Indian]

What you mean "Killing like that"?

I am talking about your civil war and its impact on your policies.

You were never able to neutralise LTTE before but suddenly you got muscle and intelligence capabilities. One can only speculate.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Given the impression that HeinzGud creates, Sri Lanka seems to be a legitimate prostitute state. So we have two prostitute states on our borders now: Sri Lanka and Pakistan. In any military conflict with China, India should bomb the shit out of Sri Lanka first (given any hint that Chinese submarines or ships are docked at Sri Lanka). After that India and China can find out the effectiveness of their nuclear shield etc. That will be the right attitude.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So we have two prostitute states on our borders now: Sri Lanka and Pakistan. In any military conflict with China

I think you must replace Sri Lanka by Bangladesh here who really deserves.
Most of Sri Lankans and Lankan government are not falling to low of stupidity where HeinzGud has gone. They are trying to recover.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

I think you must replace Sri Lanka by Bangladesh here who really deserves.
Most of Sri Lankans and Lankan government are not falling to low of stupidity where HeinzGud has gone. They are trying to recover.

No, the only Sri Lankan (supposedly) is HeinzGud here. Based on his statements, sri lanka seems to be a prostitute state next to pakistan. On the contrary, the bangladeshis who post here have diverse views and opinions. On top of that in recent past, there has been no musical chair for BD govt. Sheikh Hasina has been stable there. The credit for that must be given to Bangladeshi people as well.

In the case of bangladesh, Khaleda Jia is always anti-indian and Sheikh Hasina is consistently pro-indian. In case of sri lanka, whichever govt comes in power starts the business of prostitution ie sells the projects of the country to the highest bidder.

Sri Lanka takes the cake.

If other Sri Lankan people come here and post their opinions/views, I might change my opinion!

 

[Bornubus]

The Hambantota harbor project was first given to India for funds. India turned it down. Then only it was awarded to China.

China is an economic Giant and have enough fund and technical expertise to handle such big infrastructure projects in a required Time frame, unlike India.


There is critical shortfall and Time lapse in Indian infrastructure projects including critical Defense infrastructure in border areas let alone Hambantota project.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

India should annex Sri Lanka as it's having a good HDI A win win for both
And Indias Casus Beilli Could be The Tamils and you already have mother Russia on our side even the Us so no economic sanctions

 

[Indx TechStyle]

No, the only Sri Lankan (supposedly) is HeinzGud here.

May be here but I've met plenty of Sri Lankans on other forums & social media and trust me, they are far more sane people.

And so is Lankan government which Heinz doesn't like.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

May be here but I've met plenty of Sri Lankans on other forums & social media and trust me, they are far more sane people.

And so is Lankan government which Heinz doesn't like.

Okay, since you have met plenty of Sri Lankans on other forums and social media, I take your word on it. Also Sri Lankans due to their religion would be less prone to fanatical stuff. That's a positive thing to consider.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Okay, since you have met plenty of Sri Lankans on other forums and social media, I take your word on it. Also Sri Lankans due to their religion would be less prone to fanatical stuff. That's a positive thing to consider.

Case of @HeinzGud is very rare. Sri Lankans are very friendly to Indians anywhere.
More important, Lankans are properly educated people who don't claim to be Arabs & Turks like some other neighbors.:biggrin2: