India has proved strangely unable to build serious military muscle

Imaxxx

"Shaktimev Jayate" - Strength Alone Triumphs
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Man how did you land at $180 trillion Mark I was expecting 50-60 trillion usd only.
The numbers seems very very very inflated.
Likely GDP numbers at PPP. Based on this metric, China's GDP is already ahead of the US.
 

Raj Malhotra

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We will never develop military muscle, because we are importing even Low tech items like:-

Sniper rifles and their ammo.
SMGs
Carl Gustaf manufactured by OFB is assembled from Swedish components as DRDO version was killed and also imported ammo for it
Indigenous Howitzers orders =18
HAL and ADE has messed up Rustom-2 UAV
No orders for Vidhawansk

Military procurement system is geared to generate election funds, bribes and foreign college education for kids and not for National Defense. Even Chinese system is corrupt but they have still built up military industrial complex. We have built up import and waste system.
 

Zebra

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Guns and ghee
India is wise to speak softly, but it could do with a bigger stick
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http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...uns-and-ghee?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/gunsandghee
May be , India desperately needs some kind of 'Indian Spring' type thing, just to knock out all types of political , administrative and military elites in one go.

They are the trouble makers.

My two cents though.
 

vayuu1

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Breaking guys watch news

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vayuu1

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India did conduct surgical strikes

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aditya10r

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Likely GDP numbers at PPP. Based on this metric, China's GDP is already ahead of the US.
Still impossible by whatever metric one uses
By ppp terms I do not think any number more than 80 trillion usd is possible.
 

aditya10r

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Yup you are right, 2050-180 tr $ wont possible!. May be 2040 (76 tr $) on-wards Indian economy will transform like Japan,aka stagnated or slow growth.

Add few more points

2.Good or bad! Indians are not much materialistic like West and less scientific temper. :biggrin2:
Technological breakthrough won't happen in this country unless government or any private company established an institute only for research and development purpose with 1 billion usd plus budget
 

Scarface

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They got you Rafale and Tejas in just 2 years which UPA could not do in 10 years of rule. They signed deal for maufacturing Avro replacement in India. They cleared hurdles in path of HTT-40. And also got you KA-225 for LUH requirement. That's 5 important development just for IAF. There is long list to make if i go in detail.
The Rafale order has been reduced to 2 squadrons.Now there's going to be another deal for 90 more from a seperate vendor because as has been pointed out extensive Rafales won't be bought any more,that means new negotiations.The Rafale deal isn't the issue,the 90 other aircraft are,whose acquisition seems to be going nowhere

Whatever deal they have signed , isn't relevant to my post, it will be relevant when they see it through to the end and how fast will they do it,because as of now the Avro replacement project is still on the drawing board

HTT-40 was a compromise against the Pilatus which the air force wanted,now HTT-40 is in development and we don't have enough Pilatus

Ka-226 is the one thing you've got

Not going to give the current government all the credit for Tejas

FYI, it will long for infinity and costly fighters like Rafael won't be bought anymore. This deal had to take place because it could be fatal for our reputation and foreign relations with France to suddenly step back from such a big deal. We will select other fighter.
And y
If you think that acquisition process is slow, 7-8 years pending deal finalized in 2 years. If this is slow, think about UPA then.
They changed the deal,there is going to be a follow up purchase of aircraft,that has been confirmed by the Defence Minister,which one will be decided "by the end of the fiscal year"

So now,there will be another deal for 90 aircraft,which will take up more time,so instead of 1 comprehensive deal,now we have 2 different ones.

Don't compare with UPA,I've already said what needs to be said about them.

This current government isn't putting satisfactory efforts,developing "11 year" plans which may or may not be continued after this term when they should be developing 5 year plans and leave the rest until the next term.

A stricter timeline promotes productiveness
 

Scarface

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India did conduct surgical strikes

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Commies and Jihadis are on suicide watch now,they should have waited before shitposting,now we have an entire thread making them look like retards.
 

vayuu1

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In another news Indian under 18 hockey team beat pak 3-1 in hockey Asia cup, another surgical strike.

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DingDong

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NO n never ... Check this.. Nobel by country .... 98% Science Nobel prizes are from WHITE race(20% in pop).That is because they follow ROMAN civilization/Western values.



Don't worry!! Science&Material is important but COMMON SENSE is more VITAL for survival.We have plenty of this,btw declining of WEST is already started ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country
That is because all of these prizes were distributed between 19th and 21st centuries when the European Civilization has been the dominant civilization. These numbers don't prove anything.
 

PD_Solo

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Mr. Ajai Shukla is a paid Agent of foreign weapon manufacturers .

dont take Him seriously .
Indeed..

Most of nonsense is always Anti India and how weak our Armed Capability is...Always complaining..
 

ezsasa

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Self delete ................................
 

Rahul Singh

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The Rafale order has been reduced to 2 squadrons.Now there's going to be another deal for 90 more from a seperate vendor because as has been pointed out extensive Rafales won't be bought any more,that means new negotiations.The Rafale deal isn't the issue,the 90 other aircraft are,whose acquisition seems to be going nowhere
Rafale deal or better say 126 M-MRCA was a pandora box. Modi closing it is in itself an achievement. Anyway, 36 number is still not useless considering kind of technological superiority it brings over PAF. Any addition is still an achievement. And they are also looking another M-MRCA for filling rest of the numbers which some say will be selected by November. When i contrast it with UPA's performance with 126 M-MRCA, i see it as a speedy achievement.

Whatever deal they have signed , isn't relevant to my post, it will be relevant when they see it through to the end and how fast will they do it,because as of now the Avro replacement project is still on the drawing board
How many child you want to breath under 9 months. The way our bureaucracy works getting the C-295W deal to where it stands today is an achievement. Do not forget they are also trying to get local ,manufacturing despite the fact that requirement is for only 56 examples. Do consider everything before you judge things.

HTT-40 was a compromise against the Pilatus which the air force wanted,now HTT-40 is in the development and we don't have enough Pilatus
I don't understand what you are trying to say. But like to reiterate that clearing hurdles in path of HTT-40 were no small thing. And saving IAF from the embarrassment of not having even indigenous BTT was a great deed on part of Modi government. IAF may have to wait an extra year but the country will save a lot when HTT-40 starts joining IAF starting 2018.

Ka-226 is the one thing you've got
No, it's one of many.

Not going to give the current government all the credit for Tejas
From where Tejas was in 2014 to where it is now all credit goes to the current government. And the way DM secured future of Tejas by making a feasible proposal in form of Tejas MK-1A makes its credit go to the current government, again.
 

Scarface

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Rafale deal or better say 126 M-MRCA was a pandora box. Modi closing it is in itself an achievement. Anyway, 36 number is still not useless considering kind of technological superiority it brings over PAF. Any addition is still an achievement. And they are also looking another M-MRCA for filling rest of the numbers which some say will be selected by November. When i contrast it with UPA's performance with 126 M-MRCA, i see it as a speedy achievement.

How many child you want to breath under 9 months. The way our bureaucracy works getting the C-295W deal to where it stands today is an achievement. Do not forget they are also trying to get local ,manufacturing despite the fact that requirement is for only 56 examples. Do consider everything before you judge things.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. But like to reiterate that clearing hurdles in path of HTT-40 were no small thing. And saving IAF from the embarrassment of not having even indigenous BTT was a great deed on part of Modi government. IAF may have to wait an extra year but the country will save a lot when HTT-40 starts joining IAF starting 2018.

No, it's one of many.

From where Tejas was in 2014 to where it is now all credit goes to the current government. And the way DM secured future of Tejas by making a feasible proposal in form of Tejas MK-1A makes its credit go to the current government, again.
I know they are looking for an MRCA replacement,closing down the Rafale deal was indeed a good thing but that was just one half of what needed to be done,and it's taking too long.End of the fiscal year would be March 17,cue negotiations once decision has been made and who knows how long that will take.Read my posts,I clearly said the Rafale deal isn't the problem.The 90 other aircraft which are to be ordered are

I literally said there's no point in judging the arrow replacement now since it's still on the drawing board,it's irrelevant.It will be something to criticise or brag about once more progress has been made,I'm not criticizing it,you are praising even though the project hasn't started.

You can add it to the pros of the current government if to goes good,it will be a con if it goes bad,right now it's neither


I don't think you realize,We still don't have an Indian Basic trainer,HTT-40 is under development,this is about modernization of our forces,and downsizing the Pilatus order by citing costs and asking the IAF to wait for HTT-40 isn't modernizing by any stretch

Tejas was in good shape in 2014.


Tejas was in pretty good shape in 2014
 

Rahul Singh

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Sorry for late reply. I had almost forgotten this thread.

I know they are looking for an MRCA replacement,closing down the Rafale deal was indeed a good thing but that was just one half of what needed to be done,and it's taking too long.End of the fiscal year would be March 17,cue negotiations once decision has been made and who knows how long that will take.Read my posts,I clearly said the Rafale deal isn't the problem.The 90 other aircraft which are to be ordered are
See the Rafale deal is over now. And by all accounts work on next deal for 100 plus single engine medium-medium-MRCA has begun. Government has already sent letters regarding expression of interests to almost all vendors. But since they have specified that the fighter will have to a single engine one, the actual participants are only F-16 and Gripen. Both of these fighters have been comprehensively evaluated by IAF during last 126 tender. Even price factor is more or less known. So this time less than little will be needed to complete the formal evaluation. What of course will definitely take time is negotiations regarding TOT.

There is larger aspect to TOT. GOI is going for this deal because of three main reasons: meeting IAF’s requirement in time, bringing aircraft industry in India especially in production segment to desired level and important of all bringing necessary technological assistance to develop turbofan technology. Apart from these three there is geo-political angle in form of strategic relationship also there. All these are crucial and each aspect of it needs to be formulated and negotiated in detail. So if it takes time then let it be. It’s for good. Still I believe it won’t take long enough.

I literally said there's no point in judging the arrow replacement now since it's still on the drawing board,it's irrelevant.It will be something to criticise or brag about once more progress has been made,I'm not criticizing it,you are praising even though the project hasn't started.

You can add it to the pros of the current government if to goes good,it will be a con if it goes bad,right now it's neither
I don’t expect any to start production in hours of signing a deal. Also no deal like EADS TATA joint for C-295 can be completed in two years that BJP led GOI is now old. What I am praising and must praise is the progress with regard to selection of aircraft and beginning of following works in this little. Setting a production joint which is first of its kind here will take its usual time. Hell even Rafale deal which has been officially inked won’t get IAF its first jet before 2019 and won’t have first squadron operational before 2021. So should weep over it or be happy that work is progressing? It depends how I see things as.

I don't think you realize,We still don't have an Indian Basic trainer,HTT-40 is under development, this is about modernization of our forces,and downsizing the Pilatus order by citing costs and asking the IAF to wait for HTT-40 isn't modernizing by any stretch
It seems you don’t realize that unlike how it may sound modernization is not an overnight job but an ongoing process. It starts with planning then execution. Even execution is just a sweeping term which includes design, development, testing, certification, induction, integration and operationalization and this stretches to well over two decades considering everything goes all right.

So what should we say until that last goal post of operationalization is achieved that stakeholders are doing nothing?

As far as modernizing IAF wrt. to cutting Pilatus orders and decision to go ahead with HTT-40 is concerned. I have to say it’s a decision which overall modernization of aviation industry not just IAF. We should not have ordered a BTT in first place. It’s development should have started well in advance. But since some fish was cooking so IAF kept on rejecting various offers from HAL till time HTP-32 started falling out of sky. Now when things have come full circle government is right in cutting orders of Pilatus (which anyway is a scam) and go ahead with HTT-40 which should be ready by 2020 for full scale induction. Until then IAF can do training on Pilatus which could handle sufficient numbers of flight per day (significantly more that HPT-32).

Tejas was in good shape in 2014.

Tejas was in pretty good shape in 2014
Then you don’t know in what circumstances Tejas MK-1A (then called Tejas SOP-18) was born. And why IAF which was reluctant to put any orders beyond 40 for Tejas MK-1 agreed to place order for over 100 more Tejas?

In fact before DM Parikar stepped in personally Tejas project (not to confuse with naval program which was going smooth) was good as dead because IAF was reluctant in ordering more of Tejas MK-1 and was asking for Tejas MK-2 which HAL was not ready for until they are given sufficient orders for MK-1. This deadlock was stalling the program for over 3 years with not solution in sight till DM stepped in. In fact had DM not intervened, Tejas would not have started squadron services as yet, something that I can bet on.
 

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