India far behind China's combat power

[Kunal Biswas]

China >>

Regarding TAR issues, PLA have deployed there S-300 equivalent , They also deployed Light tanks and SPGH, AESA based ground Radar at TAR for surveillance, Not to mention fast progress they are making Airbases and connectivity of roads and Rail in the region, Also there SF in brigades can be deployed within 48nhours to TAR region by Air ..

Also to add, They have IRBM cells ( Underground Concrete infrastructure to hold and launch IRBM ) near border to our country, They have successfully infiltrated by Land. Water and Air even taken 10 kms of land and vacated us from more 10kms on Leh areas ..

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INDIA >>

Road infrastructure is very poor no railway connectivity in majority of state, Solider still make stone based pill boxes, Preemptive bunkers and dig trenches by hand, There communication is from 90s radio sets which are jammed often by enemy, Fire arms are ok but again there is lack of optics for basic grunt and there are no training for optics for basic grunt either, Lack Air strips, Helipads and Gunships so does light tanks and Medium range Arty, Higher Brass and Gov are now thinking to make forces without equipment even Rifles to guard eastern sector ..

IAF on other hand have bases in mass below Arunachal pradesh, But with no or little air-defense there, surveillance system are not ready and not enough force for guarding it ..

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We are living in dangerous times ..

 

[happy]

This is so true @happy and unbelievably shocking !

I've just finished reading ex-COAS Gen. V,K, Singh's biography "courage and Conviction", He has mentioned, how corrupt our defence secretaries and bureaucrats are and how they are ruining apart our Army thus our country by doing corruption in defence procurement matters.

For an example, when Gen V.K.Singh was COAS, Army proposed for more than 100 acquisitions however for around 7 months it was deliberately withheld by GOI by keeping a particular position vacant in MoD who could initiate and approve the proposed acquisitions. When someone got posted in that place, out of 100 proposed acquisitions, only 8 or 9 have been procured at the end of financial year

It was really shocking to know that, any proposed acquisition would take more than 36 months to materialise or even more once it is approved by babus

One who challenges, babus and ministers, they would face the wrath of GOI and would need to deal with False allegations.

It's really sad and unfortunate that, even higher rank officers from Army, Navy and AF support these bureaucrat turds and sell our own nation

However, there are people who care for our motherland and are still loyal, uncorrupt hence, we are still living in India otherwise, we would have been already sold to either US or any other European countries or would have been captured by Chinese or Pukes.

I used to read a lot and lot of books once upon a time. Now a days, I find that many biographies are just one man perspectives and many times they are watered down. In fact, they are so edited that any content which directly finds fault with the govt is deleted outright. By this, you can imagine the real scale of corruption as referred by V.K.Singh.

Regarding your last para, I believe those uncorrupt are very very very few. Power corrupts. In AP itself, I can only vouch for less than 10 bureaucrats who are above corruption.

 

[Waffen SS]

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INDIA >>

Road infrastructure is very poor no railway connectivity in majority of state, Solider still make stone based pill boxes, Preemptive bunkers and dig trenches by hand, There communication is from 90s radio sets which are jammed often by enemy, Fire arms are ok but again there is lack of optics for basic grunt and there are no training for optics for basic grunt either, Lack Air strips, Helipads and Gunships so does light tanks and Medium range Arty, Higher Brass and Gov are now thinking to make forces without equipment even Rifles to guard eastern sector ..

IAF on other hand have bases in mass below Arunachal pradesh, But with no or little air-defense there, surveillance system are not ready and not enough force for guarding it ..

===================

We are living in dangerous times ..

Sir we can use M 40 recoilless guns as field artillery, no idea whether India still uses it or not, but it is a splendid RCL. As for Chinese aircraft, our troops should be armed with large MANPADs to shoot down Chinese aircrafts.

A Massive Mirage 2000, SPACECAT Jaguar raid in Tibet's defence infrastructure, mainly in airbases(but no bombing on runway, but bomb hanger, control tower and radar) escorted by Su 30MKI and MiG 29's will result in total Chinese Military collapse. If we destroy Railways between China and Tibet Chinese Military plan will have serious problems.

But to achieve it we need to start a primitive strike like Operation Moked that Israel did in 1967.

I think Indian infantry in China border should be equipped with large numbers of RPGs and MANPADs then army uses on average, if we use RPG 29, then Chinese armour will be slaughtered in Aksai Chin.

Iran's 120 mm Razm mortar also seems a great weapon we can use perfectly in China border.

But red tapism and corruptions are problem.

 

[roma]

They are producing and inducting warships at a very rapid pace, same with their aircraft's, while we are taking our sweet time in putting a close to the Rafale deal. We have to increase our production rates of warships and induct it in a reasonable timeframe. As for our army F-INSAS, we all know its status.
There is no urgency from our ministers to address these issues, they are sleeping in their jobs.

how can you say they are sleeping ? .... they are now wide awake facing the nightmare
of election losses .....and probably their jobs too !

 

[Illusive]

how can you say they are sleeping ? .... they are now wide awake facing the nightmare
of election losses .....and probably their jobs too !

Glad the people are awake.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I will answer you post para by para ..

Firstly 106 RCL is lighter than field guns and use for direct attack, 106mm RCL makes huge flash and can be detected easily, Now days Infantry carry 51mm light motar, Such Placement can be destroyed, Though smaller 84mm RCL are good as they are mobile with Infantry, If one want to target armour and Infantry better use ATGM like Millan or other, They are hard to detect and can be mobile when attacked, MANPADS indeed, But again for such a amount of MANPADS cannot be imported but have to be manufactured in home, We dont have that yet as Army never put any requirement but relied on Imports, Imports in which 1/4th are duds ..

The days of Air raids on Air fields are gone, Now its all Cruise Missile game that is what PLA doing other side, Massive Cruise Missile attack on selected targets can do more damage at very lower cost in our case Brhmos is the only Cruise Missle at hand with 290kms range and can be used against tactical targets not strategic targets, Induction of Nirbhay will increase that to 1000kms where ' Real ' PLAAF bases are located, Airforce job mainly to provide CAS and Air superiority and SEAD missions ..

Inducting RPG-29 is a issue, It reqire new training method and new subsystem and new logestic chain, Its better to induct new generation Carl Gustaf 84mm tandam Heat rounds which is more or less same as RPG-29 ,There are no procurement on that ..

Indian Army use OFB 120mm motar and its good also, Its a heavy class motar system but lighter than most 120mm motar system over the world ..

Sir we can use M 40 recoilless guns as field artillery, no idea whether India still uses it or not, but it is a splendid RCL. As for Chinese aircraft, our troops should be armed with large MANPADs to shoot down Chinese aircrafts.

A Massive Mirage 2000, SPACECAT Jaguar raid in Tibet's defence infrastructure, mainly in airbases(but no bombing on runway, but bomb hanger, control tower and radar) escorted by Su 30MKI and MiG 29's will result in total Chinese Military collapse. If we destroy Railways between China and Tibet Chinese Military plan will have serious problems.

But to achieve it we need to start a primitive strike like Operation Moked that Israel did in 1967.

I think Indian infantry in China border should be equipped with large numbers of RPGs and MANPADs then army uses on average, if we use RPG 29, then Chinese armour will be slaughtered in Aksai Chin.

Iran's 120 mm Razm mortar also seems a great weapon we can use perfectly in China border.

But red tapism and corruptions are problem.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It is unlikely any major wars will be fought by india and china ; there maybe skirmishes
But any major wars against china will most likely have india part of a greater alliance.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sir, War or Skirmishes it will involve large amount of firepower and people ..

7 day war, Was only for 7 days which took more than 1000 fighter jets and 1000s tanks and 1000 hundred soldiers from both sides ..

If War happens, Its better stretch long, A short one may not be good for us ..

It is unlikely any major wars will be fought by india and china ; there maybe skirmishes
But any major wars against china will most likely have india part of a greater alliance.

 

[kseeker]

If War happens, Its better stretch long, A short one may not be good for us ..

Are we prepared for long term war in the first place? do we have that many reserves which we can utilise if war stretches for months altogether ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Long is better coz it halt enemy speed, Gives time to reorganize and cut enemy`s rear supply chain then what remain in the closed zone can be effectively counter attacked ..

We have more airbases near to our conflict zone, Railway is close too for supply unlike the other-side ..

Are we prepared for long term war in the first place? do we have that many reserves which we can utilise if war stretches for months altogether ?

 

[kseeker]

Long is better coz it halt enemy speed, Gives time to reorganize and cut enemy`s rear supply chain then what remain in the closed zone can be effectively counter attacked ..

We have more airbases near to our conflict zone, Railway is close too for supply unlike the other-side ..

No disrespect here, however, you have elucidated how long term war can be beneficial for us however, my questions were different.

The first and foremost question is, are prepared for long term war ? The rationale behind asking this question is, what I read and understood so far is, corruption and filthy bureaucracy has made our armed forces very weak internally. When an actual situation would come, we might not be able to withstand long term wars !

For example, Operation Parakram failed because of our unpreparedness, lack of sufficient arms, ammunitions and mobility issues !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Out at eastern front its all Infantry and light arty, As long as that is the case with IAF this can be archived ..

We are self relent at small arms to light arty and shells, IAF on other hand responsible for Air denial ..

The goal is to hold strategic and statistical locations and targeting enemy rear supply chains with Army`s own PJ-10s and MRLS ..

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Though my view is based on calculated risks ..

In real situation only real event will call the outcomes ..

No disrespect here, however, you have elucidated how long term war can be beneficial for us however, my questions were different.

The first and foremost question is, are prepared for long term war ? The rationale behind asking this question is, what I read and understood so far is, corruption and filthy bureaucracy has made our armed forces very weak internally. When an actual situation would come, we might not be able to withstand long term wars !

For example, Operation Parakram failed because of our unpreparedness, lack of sufficient arms, ammunitions and mobility issues !

 

[happy]

Out at eastern front its all Infantry and light arty, As long as that is the case with IAF this can be archived ..

We are self relent at small arms to light arty and shells, IAF on other hand responsible for Air denial ..

The goal is to hold strategic and statistical locations and targeting enemy rear supply chains with Army`s own PJ-10s and MRLS ..

=========================

Though my view is based on calculated risks ..

In real situation only real event will call the outcomes ..

Any possible scenario as to how chinese would respond to our MBRLs and PJ10s ?? Most probably chinese would also follow the same tactics ??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indeed, Interestingly the other side think the same, this is all because of the terrain ..

Any possible scenario as to how chinese would respond to our MBRLs and PJ10s ?? Most probably chinese would also follow the same tactics ??

 

[no smoking]

My answer was here :-

To elaborate, I meant that with fair procurement, whatever weapons we are purchasing right now would be worth their salt. Instead of granting approvals to second rate weapons and paying exorbitant prices for them, we could buy / have top class weapons which do not create any trouble when the time comes.

In modern warfare, the machine is more vital than the number of soldiers one has.

I have no intention to braging about China's larger GDP or military budget in this case. I just point to a simple fact: the reason that China has more combat power is only because Chinese can spend more money.

Good for china. But, China not having human resources is a bluff. Can you quote any source to back your claim.

No, you misunderstand here. I mean is that PLA doesn't have necessary human resources to keep strong forces on each of its front.
So, PLA's choice is to focusing on east while keep other directions at a weak status.

Well, we did announce to the world when we started beefing up our North-Eastern borders. If there are no official sources for confirmation, it would mean that either china is plotting something clandestinely against it's neighbors or that chini generals do not have the balls to declare anything openly.

Well, it may sound rude, but I think that PLA generals don't think that Indian army has the balls to start a war for some rocks. So they don't think that this area need the scale of forces claimed by India media.

BTW, by my previous post, I meant that chinese generals do not have the balls, not the chinese posters on DFI

Doesn't matter, Chinese leaders clearly indicated that we have no intention or balls (according to you) to grab the land controlled by india since 1959. And most of Chineses in this forum think they are right.