India Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistan's Tactical Nukes

Anand Bimraj

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
28
Likes
4
Would you say that Balakot strikes were conventional or subconventional? I rest my case
I thing agreed this point this doctrinal path gave little attention to building capability for sub-conventional operations; at that time, the concept of “Full Spectrum capability” was still some years away. the question is howto acheive this task under Modi nationalist hood and feeling now under this leadership a different direction of indian path from secularisim to religious fanatic. Also sensing under Modi leadership , Indian may go into US Block from Russia and counter china to protect US interest.
 
Last edited:

Anand Bimraj

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
28
Likes
4
We are called with even worse words. And we will continue to use derogatory words for jihadis and their promoters.

What is Pakistani narrative at first place?

Here are all possibilities summed up.

1. There's a major terror attack in India.
2. Indian Air Force neutralises Pakistani nuclear facilities.
3. Indian IBGs capture large area of Pakistan.
4. Battle escalates Indian tri service command uses strategic weapons, Pakistan surrenders.

2A. Indian Air Force fails to neutralise all Pakistani nuclear installations.
3A. Indian IBGs & military expedite into and capture Pakistani territory.
4A. Pakistan uses nuclear weapons on Indian troops.
5A. India retaliates with nukes and battle ends.

4B. Pakistan chooses not to use nukes. Goes to international community. India leaves some territory after some time under pressure but keeps some with it.

4C. Pakistan doesn't follow its doctrine and hits Indian cities with missiles.
5C. India intercepts some Pakistani missiles. Some couldn't. India hits back with nukes & Pakistan surrenders.

2B. India abolishes its no first use policy and conducts pre emptive nuclear strikes on Pakistani nuclear installations followed by Cold Start. No chance for Pakistan!


Now, let me know how Nasr will make you win or even help with deterrence?
Sorry, I shouldn't answer here, very good point raised here and here my two cents , disagree if you don't like it .
Besides Nasr, Pakistan is improving its existing conventional platforms to deter Indian proactive conventional war strategies and any potential conventional counterforce aims. To this end, it is updating its conventional strategies, conducting military exercises, improving its weapons systems, and seeking new defense partnerships. For instance, Pakistan developed an offensive-defense “Riposte” strategy
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,243
Likes
55,886
Country flag
which again how to achieve in 8 to 10 IBGs in perfect coordination and second if you look cursory at Indian military hardware reveals major deficiencies and capability gaps that would hinder the current execution of large-scale offensive operations against Pakistan. e.g the Indian Army still lacks a sufficient number of operational MBT, ATM, Guns and Army troops
https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/india-to-procure-1000-engines-for-t-72-main-battle-tank-force/
https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/ind...-anti-tank-guided-missiles-and-850-launchers/
https://thediplomat.com/2018/11/ind...-9-vajra-self-propelled-howitzers-this-month/
However Pakistan's land forces have a gaping hole in their tank fleet.
if looking at all these gaps , what do you think , isn't this doctorine in experimental phase
https://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/248971
Well yeah, it is right now in an experimental stage. That's why escalation hasn't happened yet.
should I say Pakistan has most robust detterence and indeed be capable of mobilizing its conventional military forces faster than India.
https://southasianvoices.org/pakistan-conventional-deterrence-assessment/
No you shouldn't because the article you given doesn't say so. It just keeps spinning things around like that so called scholar @aniqasheikh92 from SASSI but states totally something else.
She lists up a number of weapon systems procured or planned by Pakistan which itself is yet to happen.

First Pakistan isn't going to mobilize any large bit but its strike corps are situated near border at first place. Pakistan lacks any strategic depth. Just check out the concentration of Pakistani urban society and major cities around eastern border. A large fraction of Pakistani GDP falls in range of Indian artillery systems.

Second, she lists up a range of missiles. The only assumption we can make to believe that Pakistani strategy will succeed that India doesn't hit back with missiles.

Anyways, this article fails to state about any tactical advantage. It only states a bit about build up on Pakistani side but ignores even if built up one will be able to counter war on respective fronts. Forgets that gap between India & Pakistan is still increasing overall.

And anticipating about war on limited front is stupidity as well. It won't be limited to heights of Kashmir valley. It would come across the deserts & grounds of western India and Arabian sea as well. India can expedite into Pakistani territory.

She repeatedly states about tactical ballistic missile Nasr with nuclear or probably conventional warhead but fails to explain why Pakistan won't be hit back with same.
/Second , still not decided which air defence system(S-400, NASAMS, BMD and Now THAAD) layer will be deployed , you can't save a city using air defence.it's true that ballistic missiles are easy to target but cruise missiles can't be targeted easily.
what is a prepartion against of this :
https://www.dawn.com/news/1484062/shaheen-ii-ballistic-missile-training-launch-successful-ispr
No, intercepting cruise missile is usually easier than a ballistic one. Cruise missiles are just like aircrafts with lower profile and can be intercepted through air defence or CIWS.
Problem comes with shooting down a ballistic missile which has higher trajectory and much higher speed. However, India has demonstrated high altitude interceptors capable of intercepting most ballistic missiles in world. But not operational yet.

You talked about using missiles on Indian cities. Seriously, will you guys take escalation to that level? Because your civilians will suffer even worse. You know
my conclusion right now is India only have sub-conventional war with pakistan is the only option until new Gov start purachse logistic to fullfill the IBGs bare min requirment. any thought ?
What would you call Balakot airstrike?

Yeah, improvised Cold Start isn't ready. That doesn't mean nothing is. Pakistan no matter what remains incapable.

The purpose of these strategies is to minimise losses and executing plan in minimum time frame to avoid any foreign intervention. Status quo isn't going to be different otherwise. Pakistan is going to lose badly in the end.

The entire fear mongering goes on the belief that Pakistan is a suicidal country like North Korea who won't mind its own tremendous losses. Two confrontations in last 3 years, Pakistan's attempts to get out of quagmire and asking UNSC to intervene says it does.

If India can carry out counter terror operations inside Pakistani territory without any problem, the entire war scenario sheds as Pakistan becomes subordinate to India.
the question is howto acheive this task under Modi nationalist hood and feeling now under this leadership a different direction of indian path from secularisim to religious fanatic.
Muslim calling Hindus fanatic!!:pound:

Quote his single decision throughout his entire tenure to prove your BS. Anyways, how it's even remotely related to discussion.
Also sensing under Modi leadership , Indian may go into US Block from Russia and counter china to protect US interest.
??
India dumped US quad itself sending its pivot to Asia down the drain itself. With relations with China back normal track, similar to that with US well, India isn't going to ever align with US.
Seriously, it's stupidity to get a permanently hostile China in immediate neighborhood. Within next few decades, as Indian economy expands and defense industry matures, India will choose its block.

Right now its too early.
Sorry, I shouldn't answer here, very good point raised here and here my two cents , disagree if you don't like it .
Besides Nasr, Pakistan is improving its existing conventional platforms to deter Indian proactive conventional war strategies and any potential conventional counterforce aims. To this end, it is updating its conventional strategies, conducting military exercises, improving its weapons systems, and seeking new defense partnerships. For instance, Pakistan developed an offensive-defense “Riposte” strategy
I'm not going to respond same things repeatedly as even the same one sided articles who insist on hyphenating India & Pakistan fail to contradict me.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
INDIAN ARMY DOCTRINE 2018 AS RELATED TO COLD START
https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/Site/...Lr3lD/ajTEp+Q==&flag=8CKP966uzg96kLov0aWdfQ==





The Indian Army (IA) first came up with its declassified official doctrine in 1998, and then again with a revised version in 2004. Subsequently, the IA came up with a sub-conventional warfare doctrine in 2006. The latest iteration of the IA doctrine has been christened the Land Warfare Doctrine (LWD)-2018, and is a follow up to the first-ever Joint Doctrine of the Indian Armed Forces (JDIAF) released in 2017.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
INDIAN ARMY DOCTRINE 2018 AS RELATED TO COLD START
https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/Site/...Lr3lD/ajTEp+Q==&flag=8CKP966uzg96kLov0aWdfQ==

· Future Security Challenges.


· Future conflicts will be characterised by operating in a
zone of ambiguity where nations are neither at peace nor at war -
a ‘Grey Zone’ which makes our task more complex. Wars will be
Hybrid in nature, a blend of conventional and unconventional,
with the focus increasingly shifting to multi domain Warfare
varying from non-contact to contact warfare

· While any future national response would be a
combination of diplomacy, military and economy, the Indian Army
must be prepared for a swift and robust military response to
safeguard our National aims and objectives


Spectrum of Conflict and Force Application

In addition to unresolved border disputes on our Northern and
Western Fronts, our Nation is being subjected to state sponsored proxy war and acts of terrorism from across the border. There is thus a need to
prepare for the multi-faceted security challenges that lie ahead.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
INDIAN ARMY DOCTRINE 2018 AS RELATED TO COLD START
https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/Site/...Lr3lD/ajTEp+Q==&flag=8CKP966uzg96kLov0aWdfQ==

· Current Dynamics/ No War No Peace.

· A concerted effort is being made by our adversaries to
shrink the space for conventional wars, through prosecution of
unconventional operations at the lower end of the spectrum and
threats of early and irrational use of nuclear weapons at the other.
While conventional war will remain central in the construct of the
spectrum of operations, the Indian Army will continue to
prosecute effective Counter Insurgency/ Counter Terrorism
operations to ensure deterrence through punitive responses,
against state sponsored proxy war.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Conflict Scenario.

· Conventional War. When forced to prosecute a
conventional war, it shall be to meet our National politico-military
objectives and be executed to ensure comprehensive military
gains. All combat operations will be as Integrated Battle Groups
(IBGs), under command of a combined arms operational
headquarters. Appropriate simultaneous responses to hybrid and
non-contact warfare will be ensured in all dimensions, at all
stages, and in all sectors of conflict.

· Western Borders.

**************************
· Capabilities will be enhanced to enable
deterrence along our Western borders. Operations
along the Western borders will be force and/ or
space centric with one being corollary to the other.
Our response along the Western Front will be sharp
and swift with the aim of destroying the centre of
gravity of the adversary and securing spatial gains.

· All forces shall be applied as Integrated
Battle Groups, with equipment profile matched with
envisaged role and exploitation potential, to provide
greater flexibility in force application.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag

Capability Development

· Capacity development will aim to enhance ‘Sector Specific
Threat Based’ capacities and move towards a more broad
spectrum ‘Capability Based’ force.******************


· Capabilities to be Developed.

Development of capabilities will be based on a tiered, prioritised, sector specific and threat based evaluation to cater for :-
· Hybrid Threats/ Responses Short of War/ Localised
Conflicts/ Multi Domain Capacities/ Out of Area Contingencies.
· Full Spectrum Deterrence and Operations.
*************************************


· Focus Areas for Capability Development.
· Optimisation. The Indian Army will continue to optimise
its resources and forces based on the present and future
challenges.
· Force Structure. The Indian Army will be
structured to be an agile, mobile and technology driven
force, operating in synergy with the other Services, in
pursuance of our National Interests.

*****************************************************
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag


· Multi Front Capability. The Indian Army will build
capacities to cater for a multi front threat, as the defence needs
of the future. Employment of inter-theatre reserves with interoperable equipment/ assets will ensure timely augmentation of
forces on the primary front, while guaranteeing effective
deterrence on the other. This will be an important component of
the Theatre/ Front Strategy for enhancing strategic mobility of
agile reserves capable of quick mobilisation in the form of
Integrated Battle Groups.

******************************

· Operational Readiness. A high standard of operational
readiness in terms of mission capable equipment, trained
personnel, logistics sustenance and availability of spares and
reserves will be ensured to enable the Indian Army to prosecute
operations at short notice and on multiple fronts.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
INDIAN ARMY DOCTRINE 2018 AS RELATED TO COLD START
https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/Site/...Lr3lD/ajTEp+Q==&flag=8CKP966uzg96kLov0aWdfQ==

· Logistics Planning. Logistic plans will be
tailor-made based on the operations envisaged in
specific theatres. Consolidation of stocks at various
depots in the hinterland will be carried out as well as
the number of logistics echelons reviewed. In the
Tactical Battle Area (TBA), stocks will be suitably
dispersed as per operational requirement. Logistic
movement will be lateral as well as linear to ensure
flexibility and adequacy.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
· Nuclear Environment. The Indian Army will continue
to enhance our capability to fight in a Chemical, Biological,
Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) environment. Field formations/
units will be equipped to prosecute operations through a
Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear contaminated
zone, to maintain tempo of operations.



The Indian Army will continue to develop strategies and
capabilities for contingencies throughout the expanding spectrum of conflict aiming to dissuade, deter, delay and defend by proactive and responsive engagements at the place and time of own choosing, when there is an imminent threat to National Security. In doing so, the strategy will be application of all the elements of the military arsenal in conjunction with other instruments of Comprehensive National Power.
 

Anand Bimraj

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
28
Likes
4
Well yeah, it is right now in an experimental stage. That's why escalation hasn't happened yet.

No you shouldn't because the article you given doesn't say so. It just keeps spinning things around like that so called scholar @aniqasheikh92 from SASSI but states totally something else.
She lists up a number of weapon systems procured or planned by Pakistan which itself is yet to happen.

First Pakistan isn't going to mobilize any large bit but its strike corps are situated near border at first place. Pakistan lacks any strategic depth. Just check out the concentration of Pakistani urban society and major cities around eastern border. A large fraction of Pakistani GDP falls in range of Indian artillery systems.

Second, she lists up a range of missiles. The only assumption we can make to believe that Pakistani strategy will succeed that India doesn't hit back with missiles.

Anyways, this article fails to state about any tactical advantage. It only states a bit about build up on Pakistani side but ignores even if built up one will be able to counter war on respective fronts. Forgets that gap between India & Pakistan is still increasing overall.

And anticipating about war on limited front is stupidity as well. It won't be limited to heights of Kashmir valley. It would come across the deserts & grounds of western India and Arabian sea as well. India can expedite into Pakistani territory.

She repeatedly states about tactical ballistic missile Nasr with nuclear or probably conventional warhead but fails to explain why Pakistan won't be hit back with same.

No, intercepting cruise missile is usually easier than a ballistic one. Cruise missiles are just like aircrafts with lower profile and can be intercepted through air defence or CIWS.
Problem comes with shooting down a ballistic missile which has higher trajectory and much higher speed. However, India has demonstrated high altitude interceptors capable of intercepting most ballistic missiles in world. But not operational yet.

You talked about using missiles on Indian cities. Seriously, will you guys take escalation to that level? Because your civilians will suffer even worse. You know

What would you call Balakot airstrike?

Yeah, improvised Cold Start isn't ready. That doesn't mean nothing is. Pakistan no matter what remains incapable.

The purpose of these strategies is to minimise losses and executing plan in minimum time frame to avoid any foreign intervention. Status quo isn't going to be different otherwise. Pakistan is going to lose badly in the end.

The entire fear mongering goes on the belief that Pakistan is a suicidal country like North Korea who won't mind its own tremendous losses. Two confrontations in last 3 years, Pakistan's attempts to get out of quagmire and asking UNSC to intervene says it does.

If India can carry out counter terror operations inside Pakistani territory without any problem, the entire war scenario sheds as Pakistan becomes subordinate to India.

Muslim calling Hindus fanatic!!:pound:

Quote his single decision throughout his entire tenure to prove your BS. Anyways, how it's even remotely related to discussion.

??
India dumped US quad itself sending its pivot to Asia down the drain itself. With relations with China back normal track, similar to that with US well, India isn't going to ever align with US.
Seriously, it's stupidity to get a permanently hostile China in immediate neighborhood. Within next few decades, as Indian economy expands and defense industry matures, India will choose its block.

Right now its too early.

I'm not going to respond same things repeatedly as even the same one sided articles who insist on hyphenating India & Pakistan fail to contradict me.
can you elborate why this article fail to explain tactical advantage ? isn't Pakistani Tactical Weapons and Strategic Aims: Countering Indian Military’s Conventional Superiority and Cold Start Doctrine.
The geostrategic trends in the Asia-Pacific in general and in South Asia in particular are changing. New Dehli getting closer to washington
https://theasiadialogue.com/2017/08/12/indias-choice-the-united-states-and-the-end-of-non-alignment/
and further soldification of Sino-Pakistan
https://theasiadialogue.com/2018/08/01/china-and-the-2018-elections-in-pakistan/
Indian leadership’s confidence that they can engage Pakistan below its nuclear threshold, and Islamabad’s confidence that it can deter the Indian threat through its full spectrum deterrence capability makes the emerging scenario in the region uncertain and complicated to say the least.
I can see the Pakistan retaliation in day light and has robust age over India in subconvential warfare.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/27/india/india-pakistan-strikes-escalation-intl/index.html
if you are saying dump the American Quad , then why Iranian FM visit to india fruitless after US sanction on Iran.why india is not buying oil from his old friend.
https://www.livemint.com/news/world...nctions-with-sushma-swaraj-1557765807580.html
Why AS-400 deal with russia not yet finilize and leak russian missile Brahmos technology to uncle Sam.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...to-pakistan/story-uVO6fkiMc6jokov6q9IOSO.html
Look how happy Iranin FM who played once Indian Proxy against Pakistan.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1484393/iran-happy-with-pakistans-stance-on-gulf-crisis
 
Last edited:

nongaddarliberal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
3,939
Likes
22,325
Country flag
can you elborate why this article fail to explain tactical advantage ? isn't Pakistani Tactical Weapons and Strategic Aims: Countering Indian Military’s Conventional Superiority and Cold Start Doctrine.
The geostrategic trends in the Asia-Pacific in general and in South Asia in particular are changing. New Dehli getting closer to washington
https://theasiadialogue.com/2017/08/12/indias-choice-the-united-states-and-the-end-of-non-alignment/
and further soldification of Sino-Pakistan
https://theasiadialogue.com/2018/08/01/china-and-the-2018-elections-in-pakistan/
Indian leadership’s confidence that they can engage Pakistan below its nuclear threshold, and Islamabad’s confidence that it can deter the Indian threat through its full spectrum deterrence capability makes the emerging scenario in the region uncertain and complicated to say the least.
I can see the Pakistan retaliation in day light and has robust age over India in subconvential warfare.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/27/india/india-pakistan-strikes-escalation-intl/index.html
if you are saying dump the American Quad , then why Iranian FM visit to india fruitless after US sanction on Iran.why india is not buying oil from his old friend.
https://www.livemint.com/news/world...nctions-with-sushma-swaraj-1557765807580.html
Why AS-400 deal with russia not yet finilize and leak russian missile Brahmos technology to uncle Sam.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...to-pakistan/story-uVO6fkiMc6jokov6q9IOSO.html
Look how happy Iranin FM who played once Indian Proxy against Pakistan.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1484393/iran-happy-with-pakistans-stance-on-gulf-crisis
Which part of India are you from, Anand?
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,243
Likes
55,886
Country flag
can you elborate why this article fail to explain tactical advantage ? isn't Pakistani Tactical Weapons and Strategic Aims: Countering Indian Military’s Conventional Superiority and Cold Start Doctrine.
No it didn't state any tactical "advantage" on Pakistani side. It assessed the current set of measures which are brutally outnumbered by India.
Only left one is a tactical ballistic missile called Nasr. The article itself doesn't elaborate how Pakistan will have any tactical advantage in case of a sudden skirmish.
The geostrategic trends in the Asia-Pacific in general and in South Asia in particular are changing.
No, they never changed in context of South Asia. India was and remains the sole regional power.
One article isn't going to support you. I can put a dozen similar articles to support your point and even much longer list to support my point.
I'm just not finding it worthy. This "India getting closer to US" drama is as old as 90s.
All apart, India has rejected every full commitment agreement to west block and maintained strategic autonomy.
I will talking about this solidification in next 10 years that how much China finds Pakistan useful.

Pakistan China relations won't be a counter balance to US at first place because India & Pakistan don't have similar stature with respect to world.
Indian leadership’s confidence that they can engage Pakistan below its nuclear threshold, and Islamabad’s confidence that it can deter the Indian threat through its full spectrum deterrence capability makes the emerging scenario in the region uncertain and complicated to say the least.
Islamabad's confidence/suicidal nuclear bluff akin North Korea is here the factor which comes into play.
In case India fails to hold Pakistan below its nuclear threshold, Pakistan will use nuclear weapons and get obliterated in retaliation. The fear of losses on India's side is what is the entire strategy.
But direct Indian incursions into Pakistani territory, for the first time hostile set of actions from India's side at border are not attracting any will to escalate from Pakistani side.
Instead, Pakistan ends up running for foreign support and India actually asking for no third party intervention. So no, Islamabad has not any confidence.

It knows it will lose very badly.
I can see the Pakistan retaliation in day light and has robust age over India in subconvential warfare.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/27/india/india-pakistan-strikes-escalation-intl/index.html
This isn't called retaliation but eye wash for local audience.
It initiates from Chaghai nuclear tests of basic linear implosion HEU based nukes and claiming parity with Indian nuclear program, having a small array of ballistic & cruise missiles with less than 40/94 missile technologies and comparing missile systems with Indian systems, testing a missile everytime India does one (however lately Pakistani missile test frequency is low because of budget crunch) or be it engagement at LoC against a deep strike.

But yeah, for the major part of the sub conventional war: terrorism like Taliban & Jaish, Pakistan is world leader in spreading terrorists.
Pakistanis love to boast of this and call themselves victims of this in same sentence!!:D
if you are saying dump the American Quad , then why Iranian FM visit to india fruitless after US sanction on Iran.why india is not buying oil from his old friend.
https://www.livemint.com/news/world...nctions-with-sushma-swaraj-1557765807580.html
Sanctions on Iran were to be there sooner or later. Here just was an excellent chance for diplomatic bargaining that was harvested timely. So called "freedom fighters" in Kashmir and international terrorists now.

And yes, it has nothing to with quad. It was a deal mere. It isn't part of any military alliance or bogey.
Why AS-400 deal with russia not yet finilize
S400 what India is buying around 60% costlier than sold to PRC. Second, S400 is meant for appeasing Russia not to get it away from favours. India has its own project called XR-SAM.
Willingly leaking by government? Why was he arrested?
Look how happy Iranin FM who played once Indian Proxy against Pakistan.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1484393/iran-happy-with-pakistans-stance-on-gulf-crisis
How happy!! So happy that even bailed out Pakistan!! Who will abuse if you just on his behalf to not make them next Iraq?

That all apart, can any Pakistani opinion can make any difference to USA? Nothing.

India brought real difference to Afghanistan & Iran by connecting and them now stepping back itself because of US war threats to Iran.
His location is wherever his proxy app allows him to travel to. False flagger hai :D
As told before, being from Pakistan is shameful. So, he's hiding the flag which inflicts shame on him.
His Pakistaniyat is overflowing from his English however in this post.

Anyways, just open his profile.
 

Lancer

Bana
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
1,447
Likes
5,876
Country flag
We are called with even worse words. And we will continue to use derogatory words for jihadis and their promoters.

What is Pakistani narrative at first place?

Here are all possibilities summed up.

1. There's a major terror attack in India.
2. Indian Air Force neutralises Pakistani nuclear facilities.
3. Indian IBGs capture large area of Pakistan.
4. Battle escalates Indian tri service command uses strategic weapons, Pakistan surrenders.

2A. Indian Air Force fails to neutralise all Pakistani nuclear installations.
3A. Indian IBGs & military expedite into and capture Pakistani territory.
4A. Pakistan uses nuclear weapons on Indian troops.
5A. India retaliates with nukes and battle ends.

4B. Pakistan chooses not to use nukes. Goes to international community. India leaves some territory after some time under pressure but keeps some with it.

4C. Pakistan doesn't follow its doctrine and hits Indian cities with missiles.
5C. India intercepts some Pakistani missiles. Some couldn't. India hits back with nukes & Pakistan surrenders.

2B. India abolishes its no first use policy and conducts pre emptive nuclear strikes on Pakistani nuclear installations followed by Cold Start. No chance for Pakistan!


Now, let me know how Nasr will make you win or even help with deterrence?
Things will never get that far.

> India can launch an offensive at an opportune time of the year when seasonal wind patterns ensure that virtually all nuclear fallout goes back on Pakistan

> Indian troops can advance along Pakistani rivers; Pakistan will sign its own permanent death warrant for the sake of killing a few thousand Indian troops if it uses nukes (at best) -nothing will ever live, grow or prosper there afterwards.

> Indian formations will be spread out wide rather than packed closely - requiring an unrealistic and impossible number of Nasrs & nukes

> Indian troop formations will essentially hug Pakistani forces and cities - again, Pakis can't nuke selves. Plus, usage of TNWs/Nasrs requires a certain distance between the two forces; a distance which Indian forces can close very quickly.

> They would anyhow be too scared to risk fallout/severe damage to Punjab

> India and friendly countries are always tracking Paki nukes, and would most likely unleash massive pre-emptive strikes to neutralize them at the first signs of deployment/preparation for use. The US definitely has a contingency plan in place for dealing w/ Paki nukes.

> Last of all, there are legitimate doubts about Pakistan's ability to miniaturize nukes for arming their missiles. And none of them are very well tested.
 

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
Things will never get that far.

> India can launch an offensive at an opportune time of the year when seasonal wind patterns ensure that virtually all nuclear fallout goes back on Pakistan

> Indian troops can advance along Pakistani rivers; Pakistan will sign its own permanent death warrant for the sake of killing a few thousand Indian troops if it uses nukes (at best) -nothing will ever live, grow or prosper there afterwards.

> Indian formations will be spread out wide rather than packed closely - requiring an unrealistic and impossible number of Nasrs & nukes

> Indian troop formations will essentially hug Pakistani forces and cities - again, Pakis can't nuke selves. Plus, usage of TNWs/Nasrs requires a certain distance between the two forces; a distance which Indian forces can close very quickly.

> They would anyhow be too scared to risk fallout/severe damage to Punjab

> India and friendly countries are always tracking Paki nukes, and would most likely unleash massive pre-emptive strikes to neutralize them at the first signs of deployment/preparation for use. The US definitely has a contingency plan in place for dealing w/ Paki nukes.

> Last of all, there are legitimate doubts about Pakistan's ability to miniaturize nukes for arming their missiles. And none of them are very well tested.
Fundamental problem is the Pakistani mindset and mistaken beliefs of their superiority being once the rulers of India and a wish to indulge into it once again.

Therefore any "stability regime" is not acceptable to them. Otherwise, having reached nuclear stability, they would have been assured of their survival and deterrence. Peace in the subcontinent could have prevailed.

But Pakistanis are dishonest and treacherous and wish to keep poking India to inflict thousand cuts by using terrorism under nuclear umbrella. They are fundamentally revisionist.

When Indians have come out with their limited war doctrine, Pakistan want to deter that with TNW called Nasar. They have therefore trying to create "unstable Instability". Someone was required to call their bluff which has been called.

Indians so far have proved that their Cold Start Doctrine can provide Stability under Instability in the subcontinent. Allah save Pakistan next time...
 

Anand Bimraj

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
28
Likes
4
No it didn't state any tactical "advantage" on Pakistani side. It assessed the current set of measures which are brutally outnumbered by India.
Only left one is a tactical ballistic missile called Nasr. The article itself doesn't elaborate how Pakistan will have any tactical advantage in case of a sudden skirmish.

No, they never changed in context of South Asia. India was and remains the sole regional power.

One article isn't going to support you. I can put a dozen similar articles to support your point and even much longer list to support my point.
I'm just not finding it worthy. This "India getting closer to US" drama is as old as 90s.
All apart, India has rejected every full commitment agreement to west block and maintained strategic autonomy.

I will talking about this solidification in next 10 years that how much China finds Pakistan useful.

Pakistan China relations won't be a counter balance to US at first place because India & Pakistan don't have similar stature with respect to world.

Islamabad's confidence/suicidal nuclear bluff akin North Korea is here the factor which comes into play.
In case India fails to hold Pakistan below its nuclear threshold, Pakistan will use nuclear weapons and get obliterated in retaliation. The fear of losses on India's side is what is the entire strategy.
But direct Indian incursions into Pakistani territory, for the first time hostile set of actions from India's side at border are not attracting any will to escalate from Pakistani side.
Instead, Pakistan ends up running for foreign support and India actually asking for no third party intervention. So no, Islamabad has not any confidence.

It knows it will lose very badly.

This isn't called retaliation but eye wash for local audience.
It initiates from Chaghai nuclear tests of basic linear implosion HEU based nukes and claiming parity with Indian nuclear program, having a small array of ballistic & cruise missiles with less than 40/94 missile technologies and comparing missile systems with Indian systems, testing a missile everytime India does one (however lately Pakistani missile test frequency is low because of budget crunch) or be it engagement at LoC against a deep strike.

But yeah, for the major part of the sub conventional war: terrorism like Taliban & Jaish, Pakistan is world leader in spreading terrorists.
Pakistanis love to boast of this and call themselves victims of this in same sentence!!:D



Sanctions on Iran were to be there sooner or later. Here just was an excellent chance for diplomatic bargaining that was harvested timely. So called "freedom fighters" in Kashmir and international terrorists now.

And yes, it has nothing to with quad. It was a deal mere. It isn't part of any military alliance or bogey.

S400 what India is buying around 60% costlier than sold to PRC. Second, S400 is meant for appeasing Russia not to get it away from favours. India has its own project called XR-SAM.

Willingly leaking by government? Why was he arrested?

How happy!! So happy that even bailed out Pakistan!! Who will abuse if you just on his behalf to not make them next Iraq?

That all apart, can any Pakistani opinion can make any difference to USA? Nothing.

India brought real difference to Afghanistan & Iran by connecting and them now stepping back itself because of US war threats to Iran.

As told before, being from Pakistan is shameful. So, he's hiding the flag which inflicts shame on him.
His Pakistaniyat is overflowing from his English however in this post.

Anyways, just open his profile.
Well Actions have Consequences and become corner stone of News Media, I can provide thousdand thousands links with my analysis but from what I seeing Master list of your logical fallacies doctrine doesn't prove anything your points here. I am not seeing quasi logical argument balance with you.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,243
Likes
55,886
Country flag
Well Actions have Consequences and become corner stone of News Media,
Mainstream media by far can't even come close to a newbie military observer on knowledge and perspective.

I'm not as "simple" as media to simply state masala mirchi in trend. You seem to be one trying to project the sense of parity between India & Pakistan picking up actually cherry picking the part of fronts while ignoring the rest.
I can provide thousdand thousands links with my analysis but from what I seeing Master list of your logical fallacies doctrine doesn't prove anything your points here. I am not seeing quasi logical argument balance with you.
Your analysis doesn't matter here. You are only spinning things around.
"Advantage" is a relative term again. I stay on my statement that Pakistani tactical systems are outperformed by Indian ones and you don't have any source to contradict it.

You are just spinning it insisting that India won't retaliate or hit first.

This thread and this forum has more than enough content for supporting what I'm able to quote. Prepare your contradictions and reason why India won't open war on all fronts.
 

Anand Bimraj

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
28
Likes
4
Mainstream media by far can't even come close to a newbie military observer on knowledge and perspective.

I'm not as "simple" as media to simply state masala mirchi in trend. You seem to be one trying to project the sense of parity between India & Pakistan picking up actually cherry picking the part of fronts while ignoring the rest.

Your analysis doesn't matter here. You are only spinning things around.
"Advantage" is a relative term again. I stay on my statement that Pakistani tactical systems are outperformed by Indian ones and you don't have any source to contradict it.

You are just spinning it insisting that India won't retaliate or hit first.

This thread and this forum has more than enough content for supporting what I'm able to quote. Prepare your contradictions and reason why India won't open war on all fronts.
on 27 Feb
Mainstream media by far can't even come close to a newbie military observer on knowledge and perspective.

I'm not as "simple" as media to simply state masala mirchi in trend. You seem to be one trying to project the sense of parity between India & Pakistan picking up actually cherry picking the part of fronts while ignoring the rest.

Your analysis doesn't matter here. You are only spinning things around.
"Advantage" is a relative term again. I stay on my statement that Pakistani tactical systems are outperformed by Indian ones and you don't have any source to contradict it.


You are just spinning it insisting that India won't retaliate or hit first.

This thread and this forum has more than enough content for supporting what I'm able to quote. Prepare your contradictions and reason why India won't open war on all fronts.
This report shocked me about Rafafel Data data stolen related to the aircraft critical to India’s national security plans for IBGs. This line is make me all day laugh "No hard disk or document has been stolen. More details are being ascertained about the motive,” sources in the Indian Air Force told ANI."
Good spy agencies won't leave a trace and the victim would always think that nothing was stolen. I think here India need to contact the most fav agency in indian media ISI to see who stole this critical data.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...o-in-france/story-MZFudVu7tzBaBnqgjTWJJO.html

I am working on my analysis to present my two cents to you why india can't open war on all front .
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top