India, China to hold discussions on doubling bilateral trade to $100 billion

nimo_cn

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Chinese are good in providing cheaper power and infrastructure equipments. India has given access to Chinese companies to bid and win tenders in these areas. IT and medicines are India's areas of strength. But the Chinese government has put up artificial barriers that our private companies are not able to scale upto. This is something against the basic spirit of fair trade. But then, fairness hasn't been your area of strength! ;-)
Infosys is operating in China, we set no barriers for foreign investment in most cases. If so many foreign companies such as Toyota, Honda, Sony, Hyundai ,LG, Oracle, Cisco, Intel, Ford, etc can be so successful and earn billions of dollars in China, why can't Indians companies which you claim to concentrate on quality? Don't you think it is a better idea to do some self-examination before blaming others?

Whatever we are exporting to India, we can do it because we are competitive. India doesn't give us special treatment, if there are any special treatment for us, it is something like what India government has done to Huawei and ZTE, that is something against the basic spirit of fair trade.
 

agentperry

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You don't need to know mandarin, I understand you and your fellows quite well. The point you want to make is Indians are performing better, but the sorry fact is you are the one who is concerned with the growing trade deficit.
made in china and developed in china is separate thing. nike adidas and all make stuff in china, walmart make things in china and export them. once chinese labor gets expensive we will see who is in deficit. even Indian companies have factories in china for producing products for Indian consumers. if you think that chinese products that is developed by chinese r&d are performing and out-classing the german, american or even Indian developed products then go to all the markets of the world. you will realize truth.

stats are not everything. see situation on ground. we are not considering honda cars made in India as Indian stuff we are talking about tata and mahindra cars. who are present in world market and growing with each passing day.
 

nimo_cn

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godrej, voltas, videocon are there, doing good business. many new companies are there who are taking advantage of cheap chinese labor like micromax. mcromax is now going global with products designed in Indian r&d centers
If that makes you feel better, I don't mind. I will be happy if India builds its whole cellphone industry upon cheap Chinese labor. Pleasse come to import more cellphone components from China, then assemble them in India and brand them as Indian cellphones.
 

nimo_cn

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made in china and developed in china is separate thing. nike adidas and all make stuff in china, walmart make things in china and export them. once chinese labor gets expensive we will see who is in deficit. even Indian companies have factories in china for producing products for Indian consumers. if you think that chinese products that is developed by chinese r&d are performing and out-classing the german, american or even Indian developed products then go to all the markets of the world. you will realize truth.

stats are not everything. see situation on ground. we are not considering honda cars made in India as Indian stuff we are talking about tata and mahindra cars. who are present in world market and growing with each passing day.
Then tell us what is worrying you guys.
 

agentperry

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If that makes you feel better, I don't mind. I will be happy if India builds its whole cellphone industry upon cheap Chinese labor. Pleasse come to import more cellphone components from China, then assemble them in India and brand them as Indian cellphones.
they are designed in Indian r&d center in bangalore, chinese govt give cheap electricity, cheap land and slaves (at throw away cost), thats why Indian companies are setting up factories in china. these unfinished goods are then assembled in India and sold in Indian and international market.
semiconductor industry is not the only industry in world. Indian govt wont allow sweatshop in India for the sake of stats. this you should understand, infact no govt allow sweatshop in their country.
usa companies make not even part of the product but whole of it, this means they are even way behind india who source half made products. NO. these products are designed in India which is a major thing. many of the chinese company are casting the products over the blueprint they get from parent company. its just like design forwarded by designer to tailors. does this make tailor superior?

moreover companies like videocon, voltas and godrej make whole of their product in india. and yes i heard many of the companies are not willing to hand over critical technology product to chinese sweatshop because of copyright issue. its ok for us to lag behind with our ethics in hand instead of earning bad name in intl market as a copier or fraud. because its not all about stats always.
 

agentperry

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Then tell us what is worrying you guys.
what is worrying is us.
lets see
India and china agreed upon opening up of eachothers market for companies of either side. India allowed access to each and every sector china is good in. and allowed both brownfield and greenfield opportunities. but instead china blocked Indian pharma and chemical and it companies from having any greenfield project. what does this signifies. fraud.
Indian company mahindra bought chinese tractor firm and then china closed its auto industry for indian. why? why such greenfield projects are banned for Indians.
India allowed chinese companies to come and invest in infra development agreeing that India wil source material from china, china went far ahead and included men along with material in the offer( illegally). we dont need chinese peasants to make indian roads and bridges. we have our own peasant army.

what worry us.... business we can do... but fraud is not in our blood.
we can deal with competition but not with backstabbing and hypocrisy.
 

nimo_cn

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And people also learnt that Chinese made products means low quality, its only the people who are unaware are buying such products. I think enough awareness among them will keep away from Chinese products. Some 3 years ago, there was huge demand for Chinese mobiles in Indian among low-earning sections but today they are nowhere to be seen. Now, the market in low-segment is completely served by Indian companies, Chinese are totally kicked out. But the irony here is that all these Indian companies get their mobiles manufactured in China but they make sure that they pass quality control checks. And therefore these mobiles are of more quality and run longer than Chinese mobiles and hence they got kicked out..

Also, people overtime has learnt some bitter truths about Chinese goods through the news, be it killer pet food, tainted tooth pastes, melamine laced milk, itch causing chairs and the list end less. But the time is running out for the Chinese goods as people start realizing the real worth of these goods, I mean in quality.
If we get kicked out, the deficit should be droping, but it isn't. Maybe you can also tell us it is mainly the foreign companies inside china who are contributing to the high trade deficit. I just wonder how many Indians can even afford a pair of genuine NIKE?
 

agentperry

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If we get kicked out, the deficit should be droping, but it isn't. Maybe you can also tell us it is mainly the foreign companies inside china who are contributing to the high trade deficit. I just wonder how many Indians can even afford a pair of genuine NIKE?
come to any Indian city. you will get your answer. i,a middleclass guy, owns 2 nike pairs. high rise or big lawns like american are not needed to live like americans. ask your govt to stop aping america else whole china will be one day ghost town.
 

nimo_cn

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what is worrying is us.
lets see
India and china agreed upon opening up of eachothers market for companies of either side. India allowed access to each and every sector china is good in. and allowed both brownfield and greenfield opportunities. but instead china blocked Indian pharma and chemical and it companies from having any greenfield project. what does this signifies. fraud.
Indian company mahindra bought chinese tractor firm and then china closed its auto industry for indian. why? why such greenfield projects are banned for Indians.
India allowed chinese companies to come and invest in infra development agreeing that India wil source material from china, china went far ahead and included men along with material in the offer( illegally). we dont need chinese peasants to make indian roads and bridges. we have our own peasant army.

what worry us.... business we can do... but fraud is not in our blood.
we can deal with competition but not with backstabbing and hypocrisy.
Fraud my a$$! Why don't you just admit you are not as competent as Americans, Japanese,Germans in Chinese market?
 

agentperry

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Fraud my a$$! Why don't you just admit you are not as competent as Americans, Japanese,Germans in Chinese market?
ask competency in american forum you will put your head in sand like ostrich, cuz it seems you can only be subdued by them.

Indian companies are performing well in international market and rising up steadily. they got the dose of free market economy late but still they are competing. name a chinese company who beat the american company or any other company provided chinese govt didnt lend a helping hand( extended loan, deffer-ed payment etc). India started its voyage in IT/service sector and its thriving in it. its just 4-5 years since India started manufacturing, what we truely call a global manufacturing and is earning a good name.

talking of competency. 200000 non performing companies supported by chinese govt not by Indian govt. if they were competent then they would have not gone into bankruptcy.

India started exporting engineering export 2-3 years back and it is growing at the pace of 70-80 % every year. its not a distant future when table will turn. and yes these are products of Indian companies, developed and designed in India not a foreign company opening up a sweatshop or sub-letting its job to chinese factory.

just wait my friend, we will talk on this issue after some time, proper time, our time.
 

nimo_cn

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come to any Indian city. you will get your answer. i,a middleclass guy, owns 2 nike pairs. high rise or big lawns like american are not needed to live like americans. ask your govt to stop aping america else whole china will be one day ghost town.
Don't worry about China, we are happy enjoying the trade surplus from.Sino-Indo trade.

By the way, would you mind telling us how much you earn per year? I just want to know what it ls like to be a middle class in India.
 

agentperry

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Don't worry about China, we are happy enjoying the trade surplus from.Sino-Indo trade.

By the way, would you mind telling us how much you earn per year? I just want to know what it ls like to be a middle class in India.
im a student and my dad works in a psu as a manager, earning around 13 lakh rs per annum with perks
 

nimo_cn

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they are designed in Indian r&d center in bangalore, chinese govt give cheap electricity, cheap land and slaves (at throw away cost), thats why Indian companies are setting up factories in china. these unfinished goods are then assembled in India and sold in Indian and international market.
semiconductor industry is not the only industry in world. Indian govt wont allow sweatshop in India for the sake of stats. this you should understand, infact no govt allow sweatshop in their country.
usa companies make not even part of the product but whole of it, this means they are even way behind india who source half made products. NO. these products are designed in India which is a major thing. many of the chinese company are casting the products over the blueprint they get from parent company. its just like design forwarded by designer to tailors. does this make tailor superior?

moreover companies like videocon, voltas and godrej make whole of their product in india. and yes i heard many of the companies are not willing to hand over critical technology product to chinese sweatshop because of copyright issue. its ok for us to lag behind with our ethics in hand instead of earning bad name in intl market as a copier or fraud. because its not all about stats always.
You just like any other Indian here, tend to fullfill your big-size ego by touching over the so-called Chinese slaves in the so-called sweatshops when the fact frustrates you. If you don't mind, please compare the annual income between Chinese and Indians, then we are gonna find out who are cheaper.

No doubt Chinese peasant workers are cheap if compared to workers in developed countries, the conditions they are working in are horrible if compared with their counterparts in western countries. But most Indians ( you are not included since you claim to be from middle class) are in no position to call Chinese peasant workers cheap, by any standard, they are living a richer and better life than most of their Indian counterparts.

Come back the topic, you are not Americans, Americans outsource jobs to China because that saves their money. But when it comes to the case of India, it is simply because India can't make a cellphone. The rules for Americans can't be applied to Indians unless you are in the same league with them.
 

agentperry

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You just like any other Indian here, tend to fullfill your big-size ego by touching over the so-called Chinese slaves in the so-called sweatshops when the fact frustrates you. If you don't mind, please compare the annual income between Chinese and Indians, then we are gonna find out who are cheaper.

No doubt Chinese peasant workers are cheap if compared to workers in developed countries, the conditions they are working in are horrible if compared with their counterparts in western countries. But most Indians ( you are not included since you claim to be from middle class) are in no position to call Chinese peasant workers cheap, by any standard, they are living a richer and better life than most of their Indian counterparts.

Come back the topic, you are not Americans, Americans outsource jobs to China because that saves their money. But when it comes to the case of India, it is simply because India can't make a cellphone. The rules for Americans can't be applied to Indians unless you are in the same league with them.
coming to IT, chinese are what Indian are in cellphone industry. my dad have been into china under govt program and many of my uncles have been into china for agriculture co-development. i have seen the state of chinese labor thru the videos made by them.
you are as far away from chinese labor problems. we have seen honda factory strike.

i always side by facts. you might have seen me siding by china on genuine issue which were attacked by trolls.


and moreover come to IT,pharma, chemical and gems and jewelry, chinese are no where. whyc ant chinese write some good programs to sell in intl market. too difficult?
 

nimo_cn

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coming to IT, chinese are what Indian are in cellphone industry. my dad have been into china under govt program and many of my uncles have been into china for agriculture co-development. i have seen the state of chinese labor thru the videos made by them.
you are as far away from chinese labor problems.
we have seen honda factory strike.

i always side by facts. you might have seen me siding by china on genuine issue which were attacked by trolls.


and moreover come to IT,pharma, chemical and gems and jewelry, chinese are no where. whyc ant chinese write some good programs to sell in intl market. too difficult?
But we aren't seeing Chinese outsourcing IT jobs to Indians, which means we still can manage the IT by ourselves, aren't we?

Glad your uncles have been to China, and you have seen the state of Chinese farmers. How about sharing the videos with us, so that I, as a son of peasant can determine where and when those videos were taken.
 

agentperry

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But we aren't seeing Chinese outsourcing IT jobs to Indians, which means we still can manage the IT by ourselves, aren't we?

Glad your uncles have been to China, and you have seen the state of Chinese farmers. How about sharing the videos with us, so that I, as a son of peasant can determine where and when those videos were taken.
china is no IT market at first place. moreover ask your chinese govt why it hasnt allowed Indian it to foray into chinese market. allow them then we will see. India can also ban chinese equipment and i can say same thing like you next year. but will that be correct.

you dont have to rely on me to see the state of your countrymen. both India and china are not at a level where we can call ourselve developed. move out of your AC house and go to countryside. villages not cities are true picture of nation and India and china both are not at same level.

if there is no problem with workers then why dont your govt allow trade and labor unions as communist are labor welfare and lovers only. even without unions and organizational politics if china is having so many strikes that regarding pay and working conditions then its a matter of worry.

i have seen in video that chinese labor were hard working and determinant but the state they were in was bad. im not claiming that they are in worst situation in whole world but not as rosy as you are trying to put.

1. deregulate yuan
2. allow both greenfield and brownfield projects
3. adhere to commitments

follow above steps then we will see who is in deficit. and moreover leave deficit, these steps will stop china being blamed by all over world for the crisis..
 

Tolaha

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Infosys is operating in China, we set no barriers for foreign investment in most cases. If so many foreign companies such as Toyota, Honda, Sony, Hyundai ,LG, Oracle, Cisco, Intel, Ford, etc can be so successful and earn billions of dollars in China, why can't Indians companies which you claim to concentrate on quality? Don't you think it is a better idea to do some self-examination before blaming others?

Whatever we are exporting to India, we can do it because we are competitive. India doesn't give us special treatment, if there are any special treatment for us, it is something like what India government has done to Huawei and ZTE, that is something against the basic spirit of fair trade.
Not just Infosys, but there are others as well. They have been around from quite some time. They have established offices in US, Germany, UK, Japan, Australia and a lot more places. And they make good money in all these places. But China has been a black hole. So why dont you try out some 'self-examining' as to whats so special about China for our IT companies?

So Chinese exports are competitive? Is that what you guys have been taught... rest of the world thinks it is currency manipulation and cheap labour. Many countries do have the latter though. But they have not used them with the former to build their country. Cant believe that I would live to see the day of hearing a Chinese advice on the 'spirit of free trade'! With the way the Chinese are going myopic, there is lot more where it came from! :)
 

no smoking

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But in areas where India has an edge—including information technology and pharmaceuticals—there are many barriers inhibiting Indian imports into China, Dutta said.
What barriers? I don't see there is any barriers to US companies, like Microsoft, Cisco, IBM, etc. I don't know there is any barrier towards inida competitors sepcifically.
Based on my own experience, the problem with india is that you never spend enough resources to study chinese market. Lots india companies come to their chiense customers with the similiar products they provide to west market.
Another thing is language, yes, the greatest advange of indian competitors in US or UK becomes its bigest weakness in China. Even I have difficulty to understand Inglish after living in Oz for almost 10 years, not to mentition those learn their english in China.

"What the Indian delegation needs to impress on the Chinese is that China needs to bring in investment into India, into the manufacturing sector, for example, which will create jobs in India," he said.
What did india gov prepare for these FDI? Actually, almost every foreign companies has the problem to invest in india: long application, nightmire of dealing local political groups and extremly tough labor law as well as shortage of skill workers, not even mention the terribal infrasturcture.

China was "not listening" to India's repeated requests for addressing the bilateral trade imbalance, India's commerce secretary Rahul Khullar told reporters earlier this month.
the problem is not on China side only. Inida also has its share of blame. On one hand, india is complaining China is not buying enough indian product, on the other hand, it is baning the ore exprot to China, and now even come to cotton, because you think it is not fair trading?
 

no smoking

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coming to IT, chinese are what Indian are in cellphone industry. my dad have been into china under govt program and many of my uncles have been into china for agriculture co-development. i have seen the state of chinese labor thru the videos made by them.
you are as far away from chinese labor problems. we have seen honda factory strike.

i always side by facts. you might have seen me siding by china on genuine issue which were attacked by trolls.


and moreover come to IT,pharma, chemical and gems and jewelry, chinese are no where. whyc ant chinese write some good programs to sell in intl market. too difficult?
What advantage does India IT company have? Low price, project management, language! As a computer programmer worked in China 10 years, I can tell you all these factors don't work in Chinese market.

Low price - Chinese IT programmer's salary was already lower than indians 10 years ago. Today, it would be even more lower because their income didn't increase much in this 10 years.

Project management - Well, that is where shocking indians, chinese generally think india companies have terrible project managment. Why? 1. Chinese customers change their demand quite offten (sometime it may be different from day 1 to day 2), so you have to keep flexibility in your plan; 2, even your clients change their damand, they still expect you to catch up with teh schedule, the indian companies have no experience how to handle it.

Language/culture-If an american could not understand the indian's english, do you think the chinese would love to hear that? Further, cultural difference is the biggiest problem for indians to win a contract. As one of my pre-colleagle said: "they are just too terrible" after he co-worked with an india IT company on his banking systems. In one work, you have to spend your time to study Chinese market.
 

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