India-China: The real military equation

[badguy2000]

actually its the chini people who think with their ass!you think the U.S.A. will miss a golden opportunity like this to weaken and hurt the chini economy,yeah it may hurt them in the the short run but in the longer run they'll be the ultimate winner as a full fledged war with a powerful country like India will severely disrupt the progress growth of the chini economy and will hamper your wet dream of overcoming the U.S. to become world's largest economy.remember an old english saying "the enemy(read:-India) of my enemy(read-china) is my friend(U.S.A.)!

1.how can you control the upgrade of such a sino-india conflct?

step A: Indian navy starts block;

Step B : CHina start missle attacks the harbours and main navy base of Indian navy??? or just suck India warships with long-rage crusing missles? or launch land invasion on India from Tibet?

I can assure that once China were to take one of any above 3, the war would soon be upgraded .....and India can have no chance to defeat China in such a full-scale war,unless India were to laucnch nuke missle at Beijing???

 

[badguy2000]

actually its the chini people who think with their ass!you think the U.S.A. will miss a golden opportunity like this to weaken and hurt the chini economy,yeah it may hurt them in the the short run but in the longer run they'll be the ultimate winner as a full fledged war with a powerful country like India will severely disrupt the progress growth of the chini economy and will hamper your wet dream of overcoming the U.S. to become world's largest economy.remember an old english saying "the enemy(read:-India) of my enemy(read-china) is my friend(U.S.A.)!

have you studied why USA joined Allied Powers,instead of Mittelmächte?

because USA loved democarcy??
"Luxi tania",??

or Mr. Zimmerman telegram?
NO.
it was because USA-allie trade and economic ties were much stronger than USA-Mittelmächte ones.
if allied power has been defeated, USA would suffter much more economic loss than that caused by the defeat of mittelmachte...
....


Today, Chinese consumes 6-10 times more every items of goods than indians... USA's investment on China is also 6-10 times more than ones on India.

 

[ice berg]

Since 1945, the UN Security Council determines the legal status of blockades and by article 42 of the UN Charter, the Council can also apply blockades.[5]

According to the not ratified document San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994,

Tsk tsk, dude, why you insisting embarrassing yourself further? At least understand the article you post yourself.
It says clearly:
the UN Security Council determines the legal status of blockades and by article 42 of the UN Charter, the Council can...

UN security council, not India.

2. Also from your own link:
According to the not ratified document San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994.

Do you know what not ratified means? Has either India or China ratified the treaty?
Further from your own link:
41. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. Merchant vessels and civil aircraft are civilian objects unless they are military objectives in accordance with the principles and rules set forth in this document.

There are a few lawyers here who may or may not be an expert on maritime laws. I strongly suggest you counsel them first before you try to show your ignorance on international treaties.

 

[Yusuf]

Tsk tsk, dude, why you insisting embarrassing yourself further? At least understand the article you post yourself.
It says clearly:
the UN Security Council determines the legal status of blockades and by article 42 of the UN Charter, the Council can...

UN security council, not India.

2. Also from your own link:
According to the not ratified document San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994.

Do you know what not ratified means? Has either India or China ratified the treaty?
Further from your own link:
41. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. Merchant vessels and civil aircraft are civilian objects unless they are military objectives in accordance with the principles and rules set forth in this document.

There are a few lawyers here who may or may not be an expert on maritime laws. I strongly suggest you counsel them first before you try to show your ignorance on international treaties.

Well we will have to wait for a war to understand who does what. War calls for desparate measures some times. All I know is that neutral ships can be stopped and searched under law. That's how even anti piracy ops are taking place where suspected ships are stopped and searched.

And you forget the intel ops to know which ship is carrying what. It's most certain that any energy supply will e stopped and checked. If India announces a search and seizure of such cargo, you may not find carriers for te cargo and will have to do it yourself with unit flagged ships.

Like I said, only a war will tell which country does what.

and to round this up, if no treaty is ratified, it means laws of jungles remain in force. The mighty will prevail. In the Indian Ocean, india remains the force to beat after the US.

 

[ice berg]

Well we will have to wait for a war to understand who does what. War calls for desparate measures some times. All I know is that neutral ships can be stopped and searched under law. That's how even anti piracy ops are taking place where suspected ships are stopped and searched.

Ships can be stopped under certain conditions. For instance if it infringe the safety of navigation and the regulation of maritime traffic. There are however huge differences between territorial water, EEZ and international water. Your options are quite limited in high sea if you want to play by the book

And you forget the intel ops to know which ship is carrying what. It's most certain that any energy supply will e stopped and checked. If India announces a search and seizure of such cargo, you may not find carriers for te cargo and will have to do it yourself with unit flagged ships.

Search and seizure of a cargo not belonging to you is called piracy. You suggest the state of India resort to piracy? How many ships do you need to stop and search all the ships passing through the India Ocean? What if they refuse? On what ground do you board ships belonging another country in international water? Suspecting piracy when you board an oil tank? Seriously?

Like I said, only a war will tell which country does what.

and to round this up, if no treaty is ratified, it means laws of jungles remain in force. The mighty will prevail. In the Indian Ocean, india remains the force to beat after the US.

If laws of jungles apply here, then you are not strong enough to stop all trafic in India Ocean just to piss of the chinese. ALL trafic will be affected.
The political consequences will be huge.

 

[badguy2000]

Well we will have to wait for a war to understand who does what. War calls for desparate measures some times. All I know is that neutral ships can be stopped and searched under law. That's how even anti piracy ops are taking place where suspected ships are stopped and searched.

And you forget the intel ops to know which ship is carrying what. It's most certain that any energy supply will e stopped and checked. If India announces a search and seizure of such cargo, you may not find carriers for te cargo and will have to do it yourself with unit flagged ships.

Like I said, only a war will tell which country does what.

and to round this up, if no treaty is ratified, it means laws of jungles remain in force. The mighty will prevail. In the Indian Ocean, india remains the force to beat after the US.

forget it!

according to jungles laws, Indian could not be the winner of sino-india war....China has times more eocnomy and industry resource than india....that is all.

 

[Yusuf]

If laws of jungles apply here, then you are not strong enough to stop all trafic in India Ocean just to piss of the chinese. ALL trafic will be affected.
The political consequences will be huge.

forget it!

according to jungles laws, Indian could not be the winner of sino-india war....China has times more eocnomy and industry resource than india....that is all.

In the Indian Ocean region, China really can't take on India. Many analysts have said that. You can disagree with that its your problem. Your govt knows more and they are troubled by it and that is why the strings of pearls and that is why looking at Gwadar and the pipeline from there.

You may have superior forces over land, but when it comes to naval might in the IOR, you really are not quite there. OP says as much. Like I said in my initial post, it will be Indias call as to how it may want to fight the Chinese if the Chinese start a border war.

 

[Virendra]

@Yusuf .. 50 Centers working full time Who else would have time and motivation to troll so much

 

[Balthazar]

If India decides to enforce an energy blockade in the Indian Ocean, it'll cause some problems.

a) How is India going to figure out which ships are going to whom?
b) Would other countries just sit back and let India interrupt global energy shipments? Remember that Japan, South Korea, and Australia all import massive amounts of oil and gas from the Middle East, too.
c) Many ships make multiple stops. A tanker might offload 50% of its shipment in Guangzhou, another 20% in Nagasaki, and the remainder in Pusan. Would those ships be affected as well?

 

[badguy2000]

In the Indian Ocean region, China really can't take on India. Many analysts have said that. You can disagree with that its your problem. Your govt knows more and they are troubled by it and that is why the strings of pearls and that is why looking at Gwadar and the pipeline from there.

You may have superior forces over land, but when it comes to naval might in the IOR, you really are not quite there. OP says as much. Like I said in my initial post, it will be Indias call as to how it may want to fight the Chinese if the Chinese start a border war.

if PLA could destroy US's navy base in Pacific ocean with missles,why it could not destroy Indian navy bases?

what would India navy do,once its navy bases were destroyed by CHinese missles? still go on blockade?

in a word, you can not control the level of conflicts between china and india, once blockade were to start,

 

[Yusuf]

if PLA could destroy US's navy base in Pacific ocean with missles,why it could not destroy Indian navy bases?

what would India navy do,once its navy bases were destroyed by CHinese missles? still go on blockade?

in a word, you can not control the level of conflicts between china and india, once blockade were to start,

You destroy bases but what about the ships in the seas blockading? You do know that If any missile that comes towards mumbai wfir example will be seen as a nuclear strike and will be responded to as such?

 

[Yusuf]

If India decides to enforce an energy blockade in the Indian Ocean, it'll cause some problems.

a) How is India going to figure out which ships are going to whom?
b) Would other countries just sit back and let India interrupt global energy shipments? Remember that Japan, South Korea, and Australia all import massive amounts of oil and gas from the Middle East, too.
c) Many ships make multiple stops. A tanker might offload 50% of its shipment in Guangzhou, another 20% in Nagasaki, and the remainder in Pusan. Would those ships be affected as well?

Backed by intelligence and cooperation from friendly countries including the US.

 

[badguy2000]

You destroy bases but what about the ships in the seas blockading? You do know that If any missile that comes towards mumbai wfir example will be seen as a nuclear strike and will be responded to as such?

so you precondtion is that :

1.China would stand still,while Indian navy blockcade Chinese merchant ships
1.India would nuke Beijing while CHina destroy India navy....

you are too young, too simple ,sometimes naieve!

 

[badguy2000]

BTW,
in 1962, Nehru's precondition was that CHinese army would had stand still, while India army moved forwart north,even beyond MD-line...

well, we now all know the finals...

now,some indians set a new precondition that PLA would stand still, while India navy were to blockade Chinese merchant ships..


it seems that Indians have never got any lessons from 1962...

 

[Yusuf]

so you precondtion is that :

1.China would stand still,while Indian navy blockcade Chinese merchant ships
1.India would nuke Beijing while CHina destroy India navy....

you are too young, too simple ,sometimes naieve!

Silly boy, you said you will destroy Indian navy base using missiles. Indian Navy's biggest base is the city of mumbai. Good luck sending a missile into Mumbai and getting away with it.

 

[badguy2000]

Silly boy, you said you will destroy Indian navy base using missiles. Indian Navy's biggest base is the city of mumbai. Good luck sending a missile into Mumbai and getting away with it.

so what?

missles ,espeically cruse missles,guided by BDS or GPS has extreme precision....it could destroy a AC group moving ,then why it can not destroy a duck-sitting navy seaport,which is much larger than AC groups?

the whole india is with the range of PLA's missles and UAV.

besides, CHina can easily block the sealanes of india navy base,with the water mines planted by planes or missles....

China's BDS has cover the whole india and will cover Indian ocean soon..


Once locked by CHinese UAV and BDS, India navy fleet could hardly survive under the missle attack from CHINA.

 

[badguy2000]

just as President Jiang said:

You are too young,too simple...sometime naive! hahah

 

[GromHellscream]

Indians should worry about their oil reserve first.

Reasons:

1) India is much poor of oil resources than China, and is blocked away from any oil rich countries on land. It's not the case for China.

2) Any conflicts or war that comes to the extent calling in IN to block oil lanes on ocean, will drag in Pakistan or even is caused by Pakistan at the initial stage. As the Sunni bortherhood feelings, it's a high chance India will be sanctioned by Oil sellers in ME. If the blocking work doesn't work right, the situation will be worse.

3) China is changing the energy strategy, so is USA. Both smells the smoke of war., while India is wandering.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Looks good on paper does not happens that way ..

Do you know math ?

Indians should worry about their oil reserve first.

Reasons:

1) India is much poor of oil resources than China, and is blocked away from any oil rich countries on land. It's not the case for China.

2) Any conflicts or war that comes to the extent calling in IN to block oil lanes on ocean, will drag in Pakistan or even is caused by Pakistan at the initial stage. As the Sunni bortherhood feelings, it's a high chance India will be sanctioned by Oil sellers in ME. If the blocking work doesn't work right, the situation will be worse.

3) China is changing the energy strategy, so is USA. Both smells the smoke of war., while India is wandering.

 

[DivineHeretic]

so what?

missles ,espeically cruse missles,guided by BDS or GPS has extreme precision....it could destroy a AC group moving ,then why it can not destroy a duck-sitting navy seaport,which is much larger than AC groups?

the whole india is with the range of PLA's missles and UAV.

besides, CHina can easily block the sealanes of india navy base,with the water mines planted by planes or missles....

China's BDS has cover the whole india and will cover Indian ocean soon..


Once locked by CHinese UAV and BDS, India navy fleet could hardly survive under the missle attack from CHINA.

OMG, such an informed note.
Atleast use that high IQ brain you guys claim to be the sole inheritors of. This piece is so amusing, I forgot to laugh!

For starters, a cruise missile cannot take out a CBG 2000km away from mainland China or the SCS or even from the Malacca Straits. The tomahawk has a speed of 900km/hr. At this speed it would easily take over 2 hours to cover the 2000km, in the meantime the CBG would have moved over 60 knots. The missile seeker would not be able to even detect the group, let alone move towards it. Now unless Chinese have mach 10 CMs, be advised.

Secondly, you need excellent ISR systems to detect and track A CBG in realtime, not your area of expertise either.

About mining the sea lanes of IN near the base, how do you plan to do that? You cannot move your planes this close to the IN base before getting shot out of the sky, or do you stealth miners! Laughable idea at best.
Your Subs are anything but silent. Dont expect them to approach the IN base without detection. They will be greeted by depth charges till Diwali comes.

And in any case, atleast read up on base exit SOPs of any navy before attempting to sound like a guru, which btw you are not.
Each time a Naval ship is about to leave harbour, minesweepers make sweeping patrols for mines. Ya, this happens in peace time, everytime.

And as for you BS about BDS (lol, almost rhymes), may I remind you of the fact that GPS signals are notoriously easy and cheap to scramble. That too for a ordinary civillian. You expect a major military base to be devoid of such scramblers?

Damn, Thank God, I was not blessed with the Chinese IQ. Would have been a waste outside China.