India-China animosity generating big gains for India's neighbors

[Illusive]

Not to forget their latest endevour on the other side of the world.

Protests erupt in Nicaragua over interoceanic canal

Nicaraguan Canal Could Wreck Environment, Scientists Say

 

[Sylex21]

big pocket diplomacy- good, how big your pocket is determines how far u can go.

all talks no money still no go!

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2

It isn't just about money, there are many ways to make other nations happy. Support, technology, investments, support for various causes. Money certainly helps though. It also depends how badly you want something and how many things you are focused on. China wouldn't care as much about Sri Lanka as India would for example. India mostly cares about South Asia/Indian Ocean, where as China has many other areas of concern/interest.

In some cases it is not an all or nothing. For example both sides might give benefits to one nation to simultaneously have dual good relations, with one falling behind if they don't participate.

 

[amoy]

fully echo @Sylex21 's point there're much more factors in addition to money to make a success story. the catchphrase "big pocket diplomacy" is only intended to flash the relatively "easier" and fundamental on basis of which support, technology"¦ will come along.

the subject itself is misleading. animosity? not at all. China basically is following India's footsteps. dams electricity, infra, what's new? - India has been doing so for ages. nothing exclusive the door wide open, Chinese Japanese American shall all cash in NP opportunities.

China is also South Asian, very much a stakeholder in such as nevigation freedom and in an endeavour to expand her investment portfolio overseas for a better return on the foreign reserves. Thus incorrect to state China cares less abt say, SL than India. one interesting fact is China borders more SAARC members than India!

the rail link shall b highlighted as a game changer"¦ only time can tell after all.

 

[amoy]

Not to forget their latest endevour on the other side of the world.

Protests erupt in Nicaragua over interoceanic canal

Nicaraguan Canal Could Wreck Environment, Scientists Say

pros and cons, what damages would canals, dams, water diversion and"¦ do to the environment? any feasibility study in place? what preventive measures or afterward remedies? such arguments and protests hav been around all the time, for Aswan Dam of Egypt, Itapu of Brazil and Panama Canal"¦ these Q's r often beyond knowledge of laymen like u and me to fathom. therefore leave them for academic researches and professional debates. one principle is not to politicize and dramatize those projects to suit populist tastes.

 

[Sylex21]

fully echo @Sylex21 's point there're much more factors in addition to money to make a success story. the catchphrase "big pocket diplomacy" is only intended to flash the relatively "easier" and fundamental on basis of which support, technology"¦ will come along.

the subject itself is misleading. animosity? not at all. China basically is following India's footsteps. dams electricity, infra, what's new? - India has been doing so for ages. nothing exclusive the door wide open, Chinese Japanese American shall all cash in NP opportunities.

China is also South Asian, very much a stakeholder in such as nevigation freedom and in an endeavour to expand her investment portfolio overseas for a better return on the foreign reserves. Thus incorrect to state China cares less abt say, SL than India. one interesting fact is China borders more SAARC members than India!

the rail link shall b highlighted as a game changer"¦ only time can tell after all.

Just curious about one thing you mentioned.

The SAARC members are: The member states are Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka

India has boarder's with everyone but Afghanistan. China doesn't have boarders with Sri Lanka, Maldives or even Bangladesh, so how can China boarder more SAARC members than India?

 

[amoy]

Just curious about one thing you mentioned.

India has boarder's with everyone but Afghanistan. China doesn't have boarders with Sri Lanka, Maldives or even Bangladesh, so how can China boarder more SAARC members than India?

Bordering OVERLAND
China: AF,PK,NP,IN,BU - 5 in total
India: PK, NP, BU, BD 4

Connectivity btwn BD n China under construction through MY per trilateral consensus.

 

[Sylex21]

Bordering OVERLAND
China: AF,PK,NP,IN,BU - 5 in total
India: PK, NP, BU, BD 4

Connectivity btwn BD n China under construction through MY per trilateral consensus.

That is a very unique definition. So you don't consider Sri Lanka and India neighbors because they have a little bit of water between them? Still an interesting way to look at it from a unique and very specific point of view. Still overall India has everything to do with SAARC as it is the very heart of South Asia, while China really doesn't belong in South Asia anymore than India does in the South China Sea.

 

[amoy]

That is a very unique definition. So you don't consider Sri Lanka and India neighbors because they have a little bit of water between them? Still an interesting way to look at it from a unique and very specific point of view. Still overall India has everything to do with SAARC as it is the very heart of South Asia, while China really doesn't belong in South Asia anymore than India does in the South China Sea.

My statement was China borders more SAARC members than India! and furthermore it's narrowed down to Bordering OVERLAND

Loook, China is as much as South Asia as India at whatever angle. Another fact is the trade volume of Chinese- SAARC members (around $90bln) exceeds that within SAARC .

In connection with SL Chinese submarine docks in Sri Lanka despite Indian concerns | Reuters

The world is more and more an level playing ground. India is in SCS too - DEFENSE STUDIES: India to Help Vietnam Build a Submarine Fleet

 

[Sylex21]

My statement was China borders more SAARC members than India! and furthermore it's narrowed down to Bordering OVERLAND

Loook, China is as much as South Asia as India at whatever angle. Another fact is the trade volume of Chinese- SAARC members (around $90bln) exceeds that within SAARC .

In connection with SL Chinese submarine docks in Sri Lanka despite Indian concerns | Reuters

The world is more and more an level playing ground. India is in SCS too - DEFENSE STUDIES: India to Help Vietnam Build a Submarine Fleet

China might be next to South Asia, but it isn't IN south Asia, by any reasonable definition of the term. So yes no one is saying China isn't a neighbor, but it isn't a local. 100% of India is IN South Asia. Trade is irrelevant here. I'm not saying China doesn't have interests, but it is a tourist and not a local in South Asia. China is more than welcome to start playing games with India and encroaching into South Asia and then India will play games back and start pushing for naval bases in Vietnam or play tit-for-tat games in East Asia. When our nations compete, smaller nations gain benefits and win.

So much better if China and India cooperated, you stay in East Asia and we'll stay in our backyard simple. Unless China wants to push India by getting more and more involved in the Indian Ocean/South Asia, but then India will be forced to ally with the USA/west/Japan on a deeper level. India doesn't really have many enemies right now. Pakistan is in shambles and no real threat on almost any level, so India has the free time to play games with China. China on the other hand has much bigger problems with the USA and Japan right now and doesn't need to add India into the mix.

I'm not saying the USA is good in anyway, because if India and China's GDP's were reversed and India was #2, we have no illusions that the USA wouldn't be hyper aggressively gunning against us instead, or might not do so next if they manage to contain China. Better our two nations work together as we have few serious interests in conflict.

 

[amoy]

@Sylex21 your Monroe Doctrine of "your backyard, my backyard" in an age of globalization is no longer applicable and both India n China's looming presence in the other's "sphere of influence" is inevitable with omnipresent interest and shan't be seen as animosity.

Chinese aren't daunted by bluffs of India allying with US, West or Japan. it's only Indian wishful thinking that Japanese or Americans see them as equals, or share the same values - nothing more than smokescreening. Chinese interests r more interwoven with the west than Indian regardless of surperficial clashes from time to time.

 

[no smoking]

China might be next to South Asia, but it isn't IN south Asia, by any reasonable definition of the term. So yes no one is saying China isn't a neighbor, but it isn't a local. 100% of India is IN South Asia. Trade is irrelevant here. I'm not saying China doesn't have interests, but it is a tourist and not a local in South Asia. China is more than welcome to start playing games with India and encroaching into South Asia and then India will play games back and start pushing for naval bases in Vietnam or play tit-for-tat games in East Asia. When our nations compete, smaller nations gain benefits and win.

Fair enough, India is more than welcome to play games back and start pushing for naval bases in Vietnam or wherever you want. We would love to see India put the money into others' pockets since India has some much spare money to throw away.

So much better if China and India cooperated, you stay in East Asia and we'll stay in our backyard simple. Unless China wants to push India by getting more and more involved in the Indian Ocean/South Asia, but then India will be forced to ally with the USA/west/Japan on a deeper level. India doesn't really have many enemies right now. Pakistan is in shambles and no real threat on almost any level, so India has the free time to play games with China. China on the other hand has much bigger problems with the USA and Japan right now and doesn't need to add India into the mix.

No, you won't because USA navy is a even bigger force in your own backyard comparing to China.

I'm not saying the USA is good in anyway, because if India and China's GDP's were reversed and India was #2, we have no illusions that the USA wouldn't be hyper aggressively gunning against us instead, or might not do so next if they manage to contain China. Better our two nations work together as we have few serious interests in conflict.

No, you did even worse. Last time India thought she got an upper hand, you trained and support the guerrilla war in Tibet. Yes, we knew that quite a lot Tibetan officers were trained in India by Indian army.

 

[amoy]

No, you did even worse. Last time India thought she got an upper hand, you trained and support the guerrilla war in Tibet. Yes, we knew that quite a lot Tibetan officers were trained in India by Indian army.

Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ethnic Tibetans have been a part and parcel of the modern Indian Army for as long as it has existed. Independent formations of Tibetan (including Ladakhi, Bön, and Sikkimese) units were to patrol and police the lands they were native to. During the time of the Great Game, the British Indian Army began to employ Tibetans as spies, intelligence agents, and even covert militia in northern India and Tibet proper.

At the time of Indian independence, the Northern Mountain covered region of India remained the most isolated and strategically overlooked territory of the subcontinent. During the 1950s, the American Central Intelligence Agency and the Indian Intelligence Bureau established Mustang Base in Mustang in Nepal,[5] which trained Tibetans in guerilla warfare. The Mustang rebels brought the 14th Dalai Lama to India during the 1959 Tibetan Rebellion.[6]

 

[Sylex21]

@Sylex21 your Monroe Doctrine of "your backyard, my backyard" in an age of globalization is no longer applicable and both India n China's looming presence in the other's "sphere of influence" is inevitable with omnipresent interest and shan't be seen as animosity.

Chinese aren't daunted by bluffs of India allying with US, West or Japan. it's only Indian wishful thinking that Japanese or Americans see them as equals, or share the same values - nothing more than smokescreening. Chinese interests r more interwoven with the west than Indian regardless of surperficial clashes from time to time.

Clearly you are deluded and that is why you will be another isolated power used and abused by the west so they can rally the world around them. China will be seen a pariah as the USSR was before it and it will fall to the same fate. Between America, democracy being inevitable or you guys trying to artificially manipulate nature with your one child policy, your demographics will kill you in the end.

So enjoy the few years you have making plastic crap to flood Walmart and amuse American children.

You talk smack about India's relationship with the USA or Japan, but your only friends in the world are other rogue isolated nations like Pakistan, Iran and North Korea.

 

[amoy]

@Sylex21 as an American US is funding Pakistan as an ally, and for Indians Iran is yr so-called partner. mind boggling isn't it for a divided mind? so based on yr last sentence parroting Pakistan NK Iran as "rogue isolated states" yr post is found not worth commenting any more

 

[Sylex21]

@Sylex21 as an American US is funding Pakistan as an ally, and for Indians Iran is yr so-called partner. mind boggling isn't it for a divided mind? so based on yr last sentence parroting Pakistan NK Iran as "rogue isolated states" yr post is found not worth commenting any more

America doesn't consider Pakistan a real ally, they use Pakistan and will dump them as soon as they pull troops out of Afghanistan. I'm an American, I know how we think. As far as Iran, it is an international rogue state in the sense that it is massively under sanctions and has many nations all allied against it and hostile to it. I'm surprised you don't see North Korea as a rogue state, you must not understand how the west views in at all then.

If you notice China is also under massive sanctions when it comes to the sale of military goods, over the very shady excuse of Tienanmen Square, all western nations still won't sell weapons to China. This is of course the start of Western isolation/containment of China. The American "pivot to Asia" is another big part of it. India is too independent to be wooed easily by the USA, which is why the USA is having other friendly nations such as Japan and Australia reach out to India. Just check out the interaction between Mr. Modi and the Australian PM at the last G20 and tell me if that feels normal/natural on the Australian PM's side.

Anyways we're way off topic though I admit part of that is my fault too. The point is that China and India would benefit more from cooperation than competition as we have few strong interests in conflict. If you disagree with that statement, that's fine. But my prediction is China is going to need all the help it can get because the USA is not going to tolerate a challenger and it has Japan + the entire Western World behind it. China's corner with Pakistan, North Korea, and maybe sometimes Russia is looking like the massive under dog.

 

[Screambowl]

Special Frontier Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ethnic Tibetans have been a part and parcel of the modern Indian Army for as long as it has existed. Independent formations of Tibetan (including Ladakhi, Bön, and Sikkimese) units were to patrol and police the lands they were native to. During the time of the Great Game, the British Indian Army began to employ Tibetans as spies, intelligence agents, and even covert militia in northern India and Tibet proper.

At the time of Indian independence, the Northern Mountain covered region of India remained the most isolated and strategically overlooked territory of the subcontinent. During the 1950s, the American Central Intelligence Agency and the Indian Intelligence Bureau established Mustang Base in Mustang in Nepal,[5] which trained Tibetans in guerilla warfare. The Mustang rebels brought the 14th Dalai Lama to India during the 1959 Tibetan Rebellion.[6]

But India and China know the value of being a neighbour and are mature enough to not make Tibet an another Afghanistan

 

[no smoking]

But India and China know the value of being a neighbour and are mature enough to not make Tibet an another Afghanistan

Well, it is true that India and China know the value of being a neighbour, but after India realised that she lacks the ability to turn Tibet into another Afghanistan.

Why?
1. India itself has been suffering the Afghanistan style guerrilla war within its own land;
2. Living standard of Tibetans is far higher than their neighbour living on the other side of border, they really don't think India has the resource to support them;
2. Now matter what DL claims, general Tibetan has no interest to turn their home into a battlefield.

 

[Screambowl]

Well, it is true that India and China know the value of being a neighbour, but after India realised that she lacks the ability to turn Tibet into another Afghanistan.

Why?
1. India itself has been suffering the Afghanistan style guerrilla war within its own land;
2. Living standard of Tibetans is far higher than their neighbour living on the other side of border, they really don't think India has the resource to support them;
2. Now matter what DL claims, general Tibetan has no interest to turn their home into a battlefield.

The guerilla war in India won't linger even 8 months , if government of India really wants to stop that. That is a political creation a necessary evil.

Coming to Tibet, the population of Tibet is similar to Afghanistan which is 3Million but Tibet is highly militarized region. The current 4th gen war if imposed on civilians is not just by one country but couple of countries. That is first thing to understand. Secondly, option of opting for civil war by the civilians is the second phase operation by intelligence of any country which plans it and does not require a lot of capital. And in Asia, funding can happen through any country.

But as I said, India nor China is interested so that a third party takes the advantage out of it.

 

[t_co]

But India and China know the value of being a neighbour and are mature enough to not make Tibet an another Afghanistan

@amoy 's post showed that India tried and failed to turn Tibet into an Afghanistan. Indian 'maturity' (or lack thereof) had very little to do with it. Chinese firepower, money, and political influence were the deciding factors.

 

[Screambowl]

@amoy 's post showed that India tried and failed to turn Tibet into an Afghanistan. Indian 'maturity' (or lack thereof) had very little to do with it. Chinese firepower, money, and political influence were the deciding factors.

India knows, an another afghanistan is hell for asia. Neitherthe topography allows india or china to do such misadventures in that region. Tibet is left for Japan and USA. India is just making good friends around china. Even a 10 year old boy will analyse this.