India baiter Robin Raphel under counter intel investigation

[ezsasa]

A single person is able to cause such (big) disturbance to a relationship between india and usa.

Not necessarily a single person, there will definitely be more. But ultimately policies are framed by people. Question is which group wins.

 

[ezsasa]

Robin Raphel issue also coincides with nawaz sharif's visit to china.

 

[Hari Sud]

I do not believe that taking down of Robyn Rafael is a straight forward US counter intelligence believing that a high US official of the State Department has turned into a Pakistani informer. This is true and there must to corroborative evidence to bring FBI into the picture. Initial information that some breach of security must have happened. What we have to examine is that, did FBI stumble into this breach of security independently or India has something to do with that. India probably wish to get even with her for her disservice to India while favouring Pakistan all along.

Since the days of her anti India tirade began after striking friendship with Dr. Maleeha Lodi, Pakistan's ambassdor to US in nineties. She had a high job of Assistant Secretary of South Asian affairs - a new job at the State Department. All those ill feelings between Prime Minister Narsimha Rao and Clinton administration were authored by her. When Atal Vajpayee became the prime minister, he sent Jaswant Singh to Washigton to sort these feelings out. Jaswant Singh and Strobe Talbott met over a period of 14 months and that was a cue that Robyn Rafael time as high official is over.

But she was a fixture at all anti Indian meets in Washington. Maleeha Lodhi came back again as ambassdor and decided to kill all that had been achieved between Strobe Talbott and Jaswant Singh. As a lobbyist Robyn was helping her. But then the new President in Bush will not bite. He was friendlier with Manmohan Singh and did not need likes of Robyn.

All along during this, it would appear that Indian intelligence monitored her phone calls to Pakistan.. All along Robyn kept her abuse of India alive at get together and her lobbying.

When President Bush left his office and President Obama came to office in 2008 all those anti Indian officials in US again became active. Robyn got herself appointed as an aid co-ordinator to Pakistan. In fact she became a chief advisor on south Asian affairs in the State Department.

I believe that her activities were being watched by Indian intelligence whether in Washington or on visit to Pakistan. Robyn all along had been passing information to Pakis, it would appear. This intelligence coup could not be brought to the attention of US President as the environment was not right.

It is just a theory that change in NDA government in India and Indian diplomats and Indian Intelligence official wished to get even with Robyn. Previously they were being prevented by UPA government. With the change of government seven months back everything changed. Indian diplomats had been waiting for go ahead especially after that very insulting arrest and strip search of an Indian diplomat in New York. Now the new government gave the go ahead to forward all intelligence about Robyn being a Pakistani informer in the highest circles of Washington diplomacy, to the FBI.

Rest of her being subjected to questioning, searching her house, her security intelligence withdrawn is all in the newspapers.

She may go to jail, if charges are proven. That will be a great Indian revenge on an high anti Indian official in US.

There is another diplomat to be dealt with. It is Nancy Powell. The former US ambassdor to India. She is the one who was instrumental in advising arrest of the Indian diplomat in New York. It is well known that Nancy and Robyn were great friends.

 

[Zebra]

self delete.

 

[hit&run]

I do not believe that taking down of Robyn Rafael is a straight forward US counter intelligence believing that a high US official of the State Department has turned into a Pakistani informer. This is true and there must to corroborative evidence to bring FBI into the picture. Initial information that some breach of security must have happened. What we have to examine is that, did FBI stumble into this breach of security independently or India has something to do with that. India probably wish to get even with her for her disservice to India while favouring Pakistan all along.

Since the days of her anti India tirade began after striking friendship with Dr. Maleeha Lodi, Pakistan's ambassdor to US in nineties. She had a high job of Assistant Secretary of South Asian affairs - a new job at the State Department. All those ill feelings between Prime Minister Narsimha Rao and Clinton administration were authored by her. When Atal Vajpayee became the prime minister, he sent Jaswant Singh to Washigton to sort these feelings out. Jaswant Singh and Strobe Talbott met over a period of 14 months and that was a cue that Robyn Rafael time as high official is over.

But she was a fixture at all anti Indian meets in Washington. Maleeha Lodhi came back again as ambassdor and decided to kill all that had been achieved between Strobe Talbott and Jaswant Singh. As a lobbyist Robyn was helping her. But then the new President in Bush will not bite. He was friendlier with Manmohan Singh and did not need likes of Robyn.

All along during this, it would appear that Indian intelligence monitored her phone calls to Pakistan.. All along Robyn kept her abuse of India alive at get together and her lobbying.

When President Bush left his office and President Obama came to office in 2008 all those anti Indian officials in US again became active. Robyn got herself appointed as an aid co-ordinator to Pakistan. In fact she became a chief advisor on south Asian affairs in the State Department.

I believe that her activities were being watched by Indian intelligence whether in Washington or on visit to Pakistan. Robyn all along had been passing information to Pakis, it would appear. This intelligence coup could not be brought to the attention of US President as the environment was not right.

It is just a theory that change in NDA government in India and Indian diplomats and Indian Intelligence official wished to get even with Robyn. Previously they were being prevented by UPA government. With the change of government seven months back everything changed. Indian diplomats had been waiting for go ahead especially after that very insulting arrest and strip search of an Indian diplomat in New York. Now the new government gave the go ahead to forward all intelligence about Robyn being a Pakistani informer in the highest circles of Washington diplomacy, to the FBI.

Rest of her being subjected to questioning, searching her house, her security intelligence withdrawn is all in the newspapers.

She may go to jail, if charges are proven. That will be a great Indian revenge on an high anti Indian official in US.

There is another diplomat to be dealt with. It is Nancy Powell. The former US ambassdor to India. She is the one who was instrumental in advising arrest of the Indian diplomat in New York. It is well known that Nancy and Robyn were great friends.

India should provide good looking bollywood studs to these wenches on Indian missions, to keep their hormones in balance.

 

[Singh]

India should provide good looking bollywood studs to these wenches on Indian missions, to keep their hormones in balance.

Honeytraps are outsourced these days.

 

[Ray]

Isn't Nancy Powell the heavy weight Butch who was the US Envoy out here?

 

[Manas7]

Listen to this very interesting quip on Robin Raphel .

 

[Virendra]

I've been noticing how much and in what context our media has been crying over this lately.
I think it is wrong for Indians to single out Raphel. She was just a cog in the wheel at a time when the entire west establishment was pro-Pak and poised against India.
She just did what she was told to do by her seniors and State policy, like most other Diplomats would.
We shouldn't miss the forest for the trees.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[sorcerer]

Isn't Nancy Powell the heavy weight Butch who was the US Envoy out here?

Aye sir, She was retired in connection with Devyani Khobragade case where US envoy performed actions unbecoming of a diplomat.

 

[Bhadra]

Overall ... exposes the power of bureaucracy in spite of political intentions and directions...

Bureaucracy with vested and institutionalised interests can make or mar a system ... particularly governance as has been the case of India.

Pakistan, on the contrary, learnt very well how to appease foreign bureaucracies along with appeasing their leaders....

Including providing studs for love jihad.. or whatever..

 

[Manas7]

India ‘link’ to Raphel fall

 

[Compersion]

Not necessarily a single person, there will definitely be more. But ultimately policies are framed by people. Question is which group wins.

Point taken and will say i agree with you as a rule and as a prudent observer.

The groups size is also another critical parameter ... the anti-india group(s) and especially pro-paki groups might be negligible and prone to negligence. there might be a anti-india growth and advancement and maintenance of the world order but that must be again negligible due to parallel contrasts.

My point is with respect to USA foreign policy where individuals and personalities makes and cause (big) disturbance to a relationship (especially) between India and Usa.

According to the documents, President Nixon called Indira Gandhi an "old witch" in a conversation with Mr Kissinger.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Kissinger regrets India comments

Robert Blackwill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Devyani Khobragade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Strobe Talbott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jaswant Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Robin Raphel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A single person ... tête-à-tête

A big country ... diplomacy

Robert Blackwill on the 2005 decision by the United States to deny a visa to Narendra Modi:

"There is a special issue, which you all know about, but I'll just mention in passing, which is the refusal of the United States in 2005 to grant him a visa to visit this country. And that refusal persisted until the day he won the Indian election. The question arises, how much of that personal feeling he must have about that particular episode affects state policy? He has spoken to that, and said none. And has said, 'As Prime Minister of India, I represent India, and whatever I might think of this or that is not pertinent.' But he certainly would be, perhaps less than a member of our species if he didn't, in private moments, think about this."

http://www.cfr.org/india/economy-top-priority-narendra-modi/p33026

Mr Narendra Modi a individual behaved and managed the denial of visa well and carried ahead the relationship with USA and India and needs to be viewed when observing how other individuals are reacting because of that.

 

[Hari Sud]

Isn't Nancy Powell the heavy weight Butch who was the US Envoy out here?

Yes, she was US ambassdor to India, especially recommended and promoted by Hillary Clinton when she was Obama's Secretary of State. Hillary smiles at you but stabs you in the back.

Concurrently when she was asking 2.5 million Indian origin people in US to raise money for her failed presidential campaign, she was friends with Robyn Rafael, Nancy Powell and bunch of other State Department officials.

 

[ezsasa]

If I go by @Manas7 's posted article, I will have to see the investigation on robin raphel more as a cover up rather than a genuine effort.

America is a country which covered up death of its own soldiers in the hands of Israel , during the war of Israel with Syria for Golan heights in the 70's. I am talking about the American spy ship incident.

Going by logic this event going in favour of Pakistan. And india has nothing to do with the incident.

On a different note it is surprising to see that Hamid Mir is still continuing with "Aman ki asha" , albeit a watered down version of the old program.

 

[sorcerer]

@ezsasa
How do you think, this blow up will favor Pakistan?
In my opinion, this row of affairs will make USA rethink its possibilities of using its higher diplomats as instruments for covert ops.
RAW is doing a pretty good job anyway.

 

[ezsasa]

@ezsasa
How do you think, this blow up will favor Pakistan?

Assuming what Hamid mir is saying is true, it gives credibility to what pakistan establishment has been repeatedly saying now a days, that america is the reason they went on to support taliban not by their own will. if they take this argument a little further pakistan would start saying to americans that "If you had not forced us to support, we would not be in this mess today". in fact musharraf in one of the primetime american interviews was making a argument on similar lines before he was booted out. this is the same interview where he says americans have to pay up for the services rendered by pakistan army.

i am not saying this argument is the absolute truth, but it can always be used as leverage to gain some benefits by pakistan.

In my opinion, this row of affairs will make USA rethink its possibilities of using its higher diplomats as instruments for covert ops.
RAW is doing a pretty good job anyway.

In my opinion they will not be changing their modus operandi anytime soon. for two reasons
1) This instance is just a matter of getting caught off guard,next time they will be more careful thats it.
2)Be it any country, diplomatic missions and Embassies have always been used as cover for spy agencies. there is bound to be inter-departmental dependency between spies and diplomats. this is the norm, where i don't see any reason for this modus operandi to change.

 

[sorcerer]

Assuming what Hamid mir is saying is true, it gives credibility to what pakistan establishment has been repeatedly saying now a days, that america is the reason they went on to support taliban not by their own will. if they take this argument a little further pakistan would start saying to americans that "If you had not forced us to support, we would not be in this mess today". in fact musharraf in one of the primetime american interviews was making a argument on similar lines before he was booted out. this is the same interview where he says americans have to pay up for the services rendered by pakistan army.

i am not saying this argument is the absolute truth, but it can always be used as leverage to gain some benefits by pakistan.

They are already saying that and USA is gladly paying them also taking more than what they pay them for.


The Robin incident will portray at the international front, how low Pakistan has used USA to etch its claim on an Jammu and Kashmir, which is an integral part of India there by disturbing the peace not just in J&K but also causing its ripple effects inside the country.

In my opinion they will not be changing their modus operandi anytime soon. for two reasons
1) This instance is just a matter of getting caught off guard,next time they will be more careful thats it.
2)Be it any country, diplomatic missions and Embassies have always been used as cover for spy agencies. there is bound to be inter-departmental dependency between spies and diplomats. this is the norm, where i don't see any reason for this modus operandi to change.

The default modus operandi of using own resources in foreign land will always be the norm.Yes, Every country does that in varied ways of their clandestine capacity and as its nature permits. Here, the country in question is USA which makes it all very interesting.
For the past few years, USA and its clandestine agencies are having a very rough time. From Wikileaks to Robin Rafail its a battery of goof ups for USA. Such incidents are fails of USA on many fronts.

 

[Hari Sud]

That crooked lady in Washington

Continuation of post #23

Robyn Rafael or Robin and her anti Indian career began in Bush (senior) administration. The Pressler amendment of 1990 had prohibited any contact and aid to Pakistan other than regular diplomatic niceties and aid already in the pipeline destined for so called Afgan refugees. The Pressler amendment became neccassry when it became clear that Pakistan has a very large nuclear bomb project. Pakis had stolen some American know how and other from URENCO in Europe. The Pressler amendment was the new low in PaK -US relations from 1990 to 95.

Pakistani diplomats were at pain to explain why they were developing nuclear bomb. They privately told US that It was completely India centric and root cause of their nuclear bomb development was Kashmir issue.

Enter Clinton Administration. As a CIA operative in New Delhi, she had some knowledge of Indian point of view, which she did not like and she had knowledge of Pakistani mindset thru her husband who was till 1988, was ambassdor to Pakistan, but divorced.

Robin also knew President Clinton from her Oxford days and Hillary thru her social contacts. The die was cast to get Robin to make suggestions to solve the Kashmir dispute during first Clinton Administration (1992-96). If that was to happen then Pakistan could be asked to completely shutdown its nuclear bomb. To Clintons, who did not know where New Delhi is, and wished to butt into a fifty year old dispute this was heavens sent opportunity, which also included Robin with her expertise of sort. He persuaded Warren Christopher to accept Robin to the newly created post of Assistant Secretary of South Asian affairs.

First task of Robin was to annul and amend Pressler amendment to allow aid to Pakistan. Robin aided by Dr. Maleeha Lodi (Paki Ambassador in Washington) started to make noises about Kashmir being disputed territory and US not recognizing its instrument of accession to India. That alerted India and it began its own tactic to take this issue out of US consideration especially when US top priority was to restore aid to Pakistan and not to butt into Kashmir issue. Second US with Robin at front and centre if managed to declare Kashmir as disputed territory then US could ask Pakistan to shutdown its nuclear bomb making. But by now US realized that Pakistani bomb is too far ahead and shutting it down is of no avail. Hence effort was afoot to freeze it at that level with hope that economic & military aid and US help to internationalize the Kashmir issue would sway Pakistan into freezing it. None of these mechanizations worked.

Still Robin managed to persuade Congress to restore aid to Pakistan. A new "Brown" amendment at the Congress restored some aid and contact with Pakistani military in 1994/95. Thankful Pakistan spread a red carpet to Robin. India could do nothing to stop this machination of Robin as well as rest of US administration. It is only when Vajpayee NDA government got elected that decision was taken to mend all ties with US, that Robin found going tough. She either was elbowed out or was not invited into Talbott/Jaswant discussions. Later, Kenya & Tanzania bombing made Clinton mad in 1998/99 and a new low in US - Pak relations resulted. India thumbed at both by saying - "I told you so".

Heavens aided Pakistan that 9/11 happened. Although there was no direct Pakistani advice in planning this attack, but all the perpetrators hid in Pakistan, aided by some Jihadi officers in the Pakistani army. Also Pakistan threw its lot behind US, although the public opinion at home did not like it.

Now US needed Pakistan more, as it had to ferry supplies to Afghanistan. Also Pakistani ISI provided intelligence in locating dome of the key perpetrators except OSMA BIN LADEN. Pakistan demanded ransom for its effort.

A new Kerry -Lugar amendment was drafted to negate Pressler as well as Brown amendments during Bush (jr) Administration. It not only added more to the aid Package to Pakistan, but it added little more leeway for future considerations. Look who was the author of this amendment and endorsement of a much higher aid package. It was Robin Rafael. Later she got herself named as Pakistan aid package Advisor. In last six years the aid package tripled to $1.5 billion and thankful Pakistan was extending favours upon favours to this crooked lady.

Although Kashmir issue was out of her remit at the State Department but Robin kept on working on Pakistani agenda since year 2000. On the way she called herself as expert on South Asia affairs, Although she had exclusively become Pakistani informer of sorts.

At what time in her career, she became a Pakistani informer only the courts will determine. But her career of a senior diplomat is over. She will be despised as a diplomat in Washington.

It is quite possible that CIA may jump in to save her from jail, after all she was a CIA agent, and CIA always help its people in trouble. But Indian point of view, it is a good riddance.

 

[pmaitra]

How does this entire saga relate to a coup by RAW? Perhaps RAW did tap phone conversation by Rafael. Yet, are we to believe the US intelligence had no clue about what she was doing?

What I think happened is, the US was trying to use the Islamists to create a coup d'état in Bangladesh, the result of which was to have a US base there, which the Indian intelligence successfully thwarted. The US retaliated by falsely framing DK under trumped up charges, and the case blew up in the face of the US, which consequently turned 1.2 billion Indians in assuming a very negative opinion about the US. Historical anti-India actions by the US has already embedded a negative view of US amongst Indians. This DK case sealed the fate of US-India distrust, that had some hope of abating after the Bush-Manmohan hobnobbing. This also reflected in the Indian bureaucratic fraternity in taking up an adversarial view vis-à-vis the US.

Now that the US is entangled in a bad tussle with an assertive Russia, which has directly started to benefit PRC, the only country that is soon going to challenge the US militarily and economically, the US is trying to show it cares about India by making Rafael an expendable pawn, and the sole guilty person, and thereby, trying to wash its hands away from the mess it created.

The fact remains, Rafael could not have done what she did without the blessings of top officials in the State Department.

While Hillary Clinton was making all nice gestures and photo-ops with Indians and US Indians, she was secretly planning to backstab India. This is not very different from Obama, who was talking about the "reset" button with Russia, while secretly, the US was grooming the Ukro-Nazis.

I don't care what the US does with Rafael. I am not in the least impressed with this façade of a show.