India all set to procure Predator drone from US after MTCR membership

Chinmoy

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As I mentioned...there is a POSSIBILITY( A possibility of playing definitive role) of India being able to play a lead role and with technology it will be a bit easy. I mentioned we see a pro activeness,a follow up on diplomatic dialogue with real world action in political will.

chinese access is a different thing and chinese action is a whole different thing+chinese did create terrorists organizations in these regions of which many act against India. So its vital for Indian interest to keep a good check on them and do what it can, be it raids or otherwise to tackle it.

Whatever be the flavor of nation and its rules, when all these nations have a common threat which their mil. cant handle(Which is on the rise) India CAN play a lead role. In times of disasters India has played a vital, responsible and key role in the region despite borders.

A lot of these recent visits at high levels points to "working together" to counter terrorism with terrorism being the center focus of many such visits.

We never expected Myanmar to support Indian counter terror ops till it happened.
.
Have we seen china take any initiative in counter terrorism else where other than the "proclaimed" East Turkestan muscle flexing?chinas double stand on terrorism is well known in this world.

For china its more economical, they would try to freeload on whatever they can after India or other nation saturates the situation.
china is well known in these nation to use terrorism as a state policy for political gains many of which are hurting the very existence of the host nations.
Isnt the strong trust deficit for china well known in this region with democracies and sovereign nations questioning the chinese intent.


China's Counter terrorism Pledge Highly Questionable:

Uighur separatists who have adopted violent measures to take on the mighty Chinese state, and the Tibetan peaceful pro-autonomy movement, though unorganized, are China’s only problem with terrorism, separatism and religious extremism, described by Beijing as the “three evils.”

China has another strategy, however, for the three evils active against other countries. It is the old strategy of Mao Zedong, getting together a united front of such groups and elements.

In the early 1980s, China’s supreme leader Deng Xiaoping admitted that the past strategy of supporting such insurgent groups and forming communist revolutionary parties was wrong. China had formed the Communist Party of Burma and parties in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. Some of their leaders were shown attending China’s national day celebrations. The Communist Party of Indonesia staged an uprising in 1965, but was defeated. These South East Asian countries broke off diplomatic relations with China.(These relations were restored much later- Indonesia was the last one to do so).Deng promised this policy would not recur. But support to Indian insurgent groups (IIGs) was quietly revived-these included the Nagas (NSCN),People’s Liberation Army of Manipur PLA(M),which were started in the 1960s.Later the United Liberation Front of Assam(ULFA)was added to the list. These insurgents were given training in China’s Yunan province, bordering Myanmar, from where arms were clandestinely transferred to them.

When these IIGs were welcomed in Bangladesh under the BNP-Jamaat government, arms came through Bangladesh’s Chittagong port. In 2004 ten truckloads of arms from China were accidentally interdicted in Chittagong port. ULFA Commander -in -Chief Paresh Barua, who lived in Dhaka openly, was in Chittagong that day to receive the weapons and explosives. Paresh Barua and Antony Shimray of the NSCN(I/M)who lived in Bangladesh, had Chinese visas.

Although some of the IIGs have split, ULFA leader Paresh Barua now operates from the Yunan - Myanmar border. The Naga split faction led by Myanmarese Naga leader Khaplang lives in Myanmar and is active in anti-India insurgency. The PLA (M) camps are based in Myanmar. According to latest reports from Myanmar, China is trying to form these groups into a united front for action in India’s North East. The Chinese intelligence interacts with them through cut-outs, maintaining room for deniability. Anthony Shimray, who is in Indian custody now, has confessed to Chinese assistance. It can, therefore, be fairly concluded that China continues to press India both from the west and the east.

When China supports terrorists and insurgents, Beijing’s much declared position against international terrorism becomes highly questionable. Their focus remains only on the Uighurs. China is going against international efforts to combat terrorism.

This brings to question China’s position on terrorism in Afghanistan and Central Asia. China has given no public statement on the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU). The IMU and Chechen rebels have declared their agenda in Central Asia and Russia.

Despite the new bonhomie between China and Russia, the two are now competing for dominant influence in Central Asia. Moscow considers this region as its legitimate backyard and area of influence. Yet Russia’s economic and political interest forces it to abstain from raising such issues with China. Will Beijing use these terrorists against Russia as it is doing with India?

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/node/1808
Now what you have said about China is well known long back and well documented facts. Even I would say that you have left the Chinese supporting the Mujaheeds in India.

But it doesn't change one universal fact. the economic factor in the region. Whether you like it or not, right now China is calling the shots economically in the region. Why else do you think that Nepal had shown affinity towards China?

Even in global theater, why you think India is rising in podium? Even then we have yet to reach the stage where China is right now. Now you cant rely upon history to strengthen your binds. You need to have a strong economy to back your historical friendship and all. Do you think Bangladesh would think twice before changing their affinity towards China in face of a major economical overhaul?
 

Screambowl

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How India buying drones will bankrupt Pakistan ? If you mean arms race between both then yes India can out buy them any day. But then there are many variables and balancing equations that Pakistan has already invested to sustain the parity. Your inference of arms race in this particular topic looks like a mismatch.
Pakistan would like to seek everything which India has. The more India invests in arms be it indigenous missile program or shopping from abroad. Pakistan will have to procure too. And this will give them trouble just like during their F16 procurement.

The more Pakistan invests in arms , the more it will reject the spending on their internal infrastructure and thus it will create economic and financial burden on them. Which will lead to instability in their province.

'The Chinese factor considered when India procures it's weapons' and one may argue that Chinese are bringing India into arms race, well arms race or no arms race, India procures keeping things in mind that India will be able to get the technology too and hence it resolves the problem of 'only spending to show'

Doesn't make any sense to me. How buying drones has anything to do with Isolating Pakistan.
Economic hitmen only see the market not the country. India is a big market and that is one reason these hitmen are lured for profit building. But India has it's own conditions which they will have to accept otherwise they may keep giving subsidy rather making profit.

I do not think my post raised any such issue that warranted mention of Russia. Furthermore Russians MIC is not that advance or offering armed drones to anyone. So the question Pakistanis would look towards Russia for drones is moot.
Some times you even have to buy crap to get something important from seller and build further relations. But in this case even crap is costly for Pakis.

If you mean carrying strikes then 'No' drones will not be used against Pakistan, I see no possible use of these ostentatious machines working close to IB or LOC when Pakistanis have more than adequate Air defense systems in place.
No not carrying strikes but ofcourse for other kind of intel gathering operations. Specially in J&K. Otherwise it will escalate.

Technically they can be used for strikes too and it can done the way americans do on their western border with Afg.

Can you be more specific about all your claims and assertions.

You are superimposing tactics and doctrines that have been in place of in those regions upon doctrines Indian army and Air Force is mandated to follow. Or you can show me any such declared policy vis a vis use of these drones that unambiguously states so.
More than f-16's it's the drone which has caused devastation to Taliban and qaida. Drone is something which goes unnoticed and and a silent killer.
There is a big psychological affect already in Pakis when they hear the word 'drone'! Be it civilian or Militant.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704130904574644632368664254

From Pakistan to Yemen, Islamic terrorists now fear the Predator and its cousin, the better-armed Reaper. So do critics on the left in the academy, media and United Nations; they're calling drones an unaccountable tool of "targeted assassination" that inflames anti-American passions and kills civilians. At some point, the President may have to defend the drone campaign on military and legal grounds.

The case is easy. Not even the critics deny its success against terrorists. Able to go where American soldiers can't, the Predator and Reaper have since 9/11 killed more than half of the 20 most wanted al Qaeda suspects, the Uzbek, Yemeni and Pakistani heads of allied groups and hundreds of militants. Most of those hits were in the last four years.

"Very frankly, it's the only game in town in terms of confronting or trying to disrupt the al Qaeda leadership," CIA Director Leon Panetta noted last May. The agency's own troubles with gathering human intelligence were exposed by last week's deadly bombing attack on the CIA station near Khost, Afghanistan.


Critics such as counterinsurgency writers David Kilcullen and Andrew Exum allege that drones have killed hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians. The U.N. Human Rights Council's investigator on extrajudicial executions, Philip Alston, has warned the Administration that the attacks could fall afoul of "international humanitarian law principles."


This will be a psychological advantage of ours over them.

here's more on psychological affects of drone on Pakis :

http://www.e-ir.info/2015/05/16/the...gical-impact-of-us-drone-strikes-in-pakistan/
 

3deffect

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buy drones...attack terriorist camp near india border...pb solve
 

Zebra

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What would be the theater ?

Thanks
I know, there are people who are not happy, (as of today), about an unmanned CAS platform.

But certainly Avenger has other uses in combat operations too.

What say..............!
 

Prashant12

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India Eyes the Jet-powered Predator


The jet-powered Predator has yet to attract an officially acknowledged customer. (Photo: GA-ASI)


India’s likely accession to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) next month may clear the way for acquisition of armed Predator C jet-powered UAVs made by California-based General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc (GA-ASI). The country first expressed interest in the drone, also named Avenger by California-based GA-ASI, last September. India has also made inquiries about the Predator XP, but this export version is licensed only for surveillance.

“MTCR was the first step. Now things can be discussed. The U.S. Foreign Military Sales process is lengthy and it has to be also cleared by the U.S. Congress,” an Indian defense ministry official told AIN. The MTCR is supposed to prevent the proliferation of unmanned nuclear weapons delivery systems capable of carrying a 500 kg (1,100-pound) payload for at least 300 km (186 miles). The jet-powered Predator can carry a payload of up to 6,500 pounds and has a range of 1,800 miles, flying at up to 50,000 feet.

While initially India’s requirement was for approximately 100 Avengers, the official said this could go up to 250 if the Indian Navy decides to change the design of the catapult launch system on its second indigenous aircraft carrier, making Avengers the natural choice. General Atomics Electro Magnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) technology was offered to India under a cooperation agreement on aircraft carrier technologies as part of six “path-finder” projects under the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative during President Barack Obama’s visit in January last year.

GA-ASI developed the Avenger with its own funds, and it first flew in April 2009. It was a candidate for the U.S. Navy Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike (UClass) requirement, until that was modified. AIN was told that some were subsequently acquired by the CIA for covert operations where a faster transit time was required than the piston-powered MQ-1/9 Predator/Reaper UAVs. This week, GA-ASI announced that the UTC Aerospace Systems MS-177 seven-band multispectral sensor had been successfully flown on the Predator C. The company said that this combination provides “a strategic ISR capability at a fraction of the cost of other collecting platforms, offering high-resolution imagery from significant standoff ranges.”

In common with the MQ-1/9, the Avenger can carry Hellfire II missiles. The Indian government has already requested 542 AGM-114R-3 versions of this missile for its AH-64 Apaches and it is likely the order could go up if the Avengers are procured. GA-ASI also said this week that it would fly an improved Avenger next October, with increased wingspan of 76 feet extending the endurance to 20 hours, from 15. This would provide “an optimal balance of long-loiter ISR and precision strike capability,” the company said.

Joining the MCTR would also allow India to consider other high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) unmanned aircraft. In 2011, Northrop Grumman responded to an RFI from Delhi with the RQ-4 Global Hawk despite it being under the MTCR. The RQ-4 can provide ISR information over very large distances with an endurance of 26 hours.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-06-14/india-eyes-jet-powered-predator
 

Akask kumar

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but what about Kill switches?? in a war that america dnt approves, such drones will not work..
 

WolfPack86

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Pak Fears New Delhi Will Buy 250 Armed Drones From The US For $5 Billion
 

WolfPack86

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Mod Sends Letter Of Request (LOR) To US For Purchase Of 22 Predator Drones

NEW DELHI - Within days of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Washington this month, and India's entry into Missile Technology Control Regime backed by President Barack Obama, New Delhi has sought to buy Predator drones from US-based General Atomics through the Foreign Military Sales program.
The letter of Request (LoR) for purchase of 22 of the unmanned aircraft for the Indian Navy was sent to US June 17, an official of the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) said.
The Indian Navy wants to use the Predator drone, which can fly at an altitude of 50,000 feet, for maritime surveillance over the Indian Ocean, said an Indian Navy official.
India has bought weapons worth $10 billion in the last ten years through the FMS route, but New Delhi wants to shift this defense relationship from simply purchasing weapons to co-developing and co-producing them.
To that end, India and the United States set up the Defense Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), a forum for identifying joint projects that could meet the “Make in India” requirements spelled out by the Indian government.
Two major programs being considered in that context include transfer of technology for the proposed Indian aircraft carrier and sharing of engine technology.
There are positive signs of an early conclusion on transfer of technology for the carrier, the MoD official said.
"The first phase of carrier cooperation has begun during Prime Minister Modi's visit to Washington,” said the official, requesting anonymity to discuss the program. “The information exchange agreement that was concluded will allow now for consulting contracts relating to carrier design. So, carrier cooperation is well on its way. I am hopeful that the project on jet engine technology cooperation will be concluded this summer.”
That would permit GE to both assemble the F414 engine in India while collaborating with Indian research and development institutions to design the upgraded variant with greater thrust for both the US Navy and the Indian Air Force," says Ashley Tellis, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
An official in the Ministry of External Affairs said defense programs meeting the Make in India mandate could take off sooner when based on co-development and information sharing.
In the Make in India track, India is currently considering the acquisition of a twin-engine fighter aircraft which will be in addition to the 36 Rafale fighters proposed to be bought from France.
Defense contractors, including Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the United States and Saab of Sweden, are aggressively pitching to co-produce a twin-engine fighter aircraft in the Make in India category.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/06/mod-sends-letter-of-request-lor-to-us.html
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Navy To Get Bulk Of Predator-XP Drones For Maritime Surveillance
 

WolfPack86

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India Keen To Acquire Predator Armed Drones After Entry Into MTCR

India will, however, sign the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) on sharing of military logistics during Parrikar’s visit.
NEW DELHI:
India is likely to make a renewed pitch to acquire armed drones from the US during defense minister Manohar Parrikar's visit to Washington next week to meet a requirement of the air force for a stealth cross-border strike option.
These are the very drones the US deploys frequently on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Any such acquisition, sources said, will bolster India's offensive options along some of its porous borders. While in the past, Washington has shied away from offering its armed Predator drones that have considerable combat experience in Afghanistan and Pakistan, India is hoping that its entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) in June would make a difference.
ET has learnt that an earlier attempt by India to acquire the drones could not proceed as the US referred to international regulations that made it impossible to export the armed Predator. An unarmed, reconnaissance version of the Predator is already on offer for an Indian Navy requirement.
However, a tough road will lie ahead on acquiring the cutting edge armed drones from the US, including India's current reluctance to sign two military pacts - the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) - that Washington considers essential.
India will, however, sign the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) on sharing of military logistics during Parrikar's visit, sources have told ET.
The Indian defense ministry made a renewed bid to acquire armed drones in September 2015 under a project codenamed `Cheetah', a four-year gap after the UPA government stalled the project. Sources told ET that the armed drone project also came up for discussion at a high-level defense acquisition meeting in June.
While a $ 400 million proposal for acquiring armed Heron TP drones from Israel was given a quiet go ahead in 2015, the deal has not been inked as India has been considering the option to purchase US-made Predator armed drones with its recent entry into MTCR.
India already operates a fleet of unarmed Heron and Searcher UAVs for surveillance and intelligence gathering. It also has a fleet of Harpy UAVs from Israel, which are self-destructing systems primarily tasked with taking out enemy radar positions.
While India is pursuing an indigenous drone program with the Rustom 2 that is being developed by the DRDO, the project is several years away from weaponised induction.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/08/india-keen-to-acquire-us-predator-armed.html
 

Scarface

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This is great

I'm really satisfied with how the new government is dealing with defence acquisitions and foreign policy.

Predators should be a great asset to us,and US shouldn't hesitate as much as before now that we have agreed to LSA/LEMOA which was the biggest bone of contention for both sides among the 3 namely LSA,CISMOA and BECA
 

WolfPack86

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Armed eye in the sky: India looking to buy 100 Predator drones from the US
India has sought from the US 100 latest unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), both armed and surveillance versions, worth USD 2 billion to bolster its arsenal.
To keep a hawk's eye on the long porous border with Pakistan and thwart incursions in the Northeast by the Chinese PLA, India may soon get pilotless Predator XP drones used by the US Navy.

India has sought from the US 100 latest unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), both armed and surveillance versions, worth USD 2 billion to bolster its arsenal.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, who left for a tour of the US on Sunday, is likely to give his final approval regarding the purchase of these state-of-the-art flying machines during his trip. Parrikar will be meeting US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter for the sixth time on Monday and the deal may be finalised after that, officials said.
The two sides are also expected to discuss the logistics-sharing agreement during the visit, sources said, even as there was no official word on possibility of the deal being sealed.

WHY INDIA WANTS TO BUY THESE BIRDS?

In 2015, the US government had cleared General Atomics' proposal to market the unarmed Predator XP in India. General Atomics Aeronautical Systems is aware of India's interest in Predator-series Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA).

Indian Navy wants to buy these drones to monitor the presence of Chinese submarines and warships in Indian Ocean. The pilotless aircraft can remain airborne for 35 hours at a stretch.
The aircraft is equipped with lethal air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. It can take to the skies in any weather condition, day/night and strike pre-designated targets with pin-point accuracy from a height of 26,000 feet.

The drone can provide world-class Intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) capability to India. which will include both high-definition radar and electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) coverage along our borders.

PROVEN COMBAT RECORD

The US has successfully deployed Predator drones in Afghanistan and Iraq. The leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Hakimullah Mehsud, was also killed in a US drone strike in 2013.

The Islamic State on January 19, 2016, admitted that its notorious executioner Jihadi John was killed in an American drone strike on November 12, 2015.

US pilots have killed several militants in Afghanistan from their Nevada control centre - 7,500 miles away from the battle field.
DRDO'S UAV PROGRAMME

Meanwhile, state-run DRDO has developed indigenous unmanned drones like Rustom and Nishant to meet our own needs. Rustom-2, which weighs 1,800 kg, can carry a payload of 350 kilograms. It can remain airborne for 36 hours at a stretch.

DRDO-manufactured Nishant is also a multi mission Unmanned Aerial Vehicle with Day/Night capability used for battlefield surveillance and reconnaissance, target tracking and localisation, and artillery fire correction.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...100-predator-drones-from-the-us/1/751580.html

 

WolfPack86

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In midway deal, India seeks high end technology information from its armed UAV program

India has found a midway to take discussions forward during the recent visit of a delegation led by Manohar Parrikar to the US.
NEW DELHI:
With Washington reluctant to open up on transfer of high end technology from its armed Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) program, India has found a midway to take discussions forward during the recent visit of a delegation led by defence minister Manohar Parrikar to the US.
While a reconnaissance version of the Predator UAV is on offer to the Indian Navy for its requirements, India has been keener on the armed variant but has not met with equal enthusiasm on the other side.
Sources have told ET that India made a renewed pitch for the Predator during the visit after its entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). "We have asked for detailed technical specifications of the Predator and have said that the payload (weapons package) can be discussed at a later stage," a source aware of the Indo-US talks told ET.
India is now likely to get technical specifications and details of the 'hard points', on which the weapons are mounted. Officials said that significant talks were made during the visit on the possibility of manufacturing a US-origin fighter jet in India to meet requirements of the Air Force that are expected to exceed 100 planes.
In midway deal, India seeks high end technology information for UAV sans arms
Both the Boeing F/A 18 Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F 16 block 70 are on offer to India with technology transfer. India,however, has also set its eyes on high-end technology like the Predator drone that the US deploys frequently on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Such an acquisition will bolster India's offensive options along some of its porous borders.
Sources also told ET that while several other technology sharing proposals were discussed at meetings in Washington, it was evident that progress on the aircraft carrier working group have slowed down. From the Indian side, the project is not on the priority list due to the expenses involved and from Washington's side there is no intention yet of offering nuclear power plant technology that will be needed for a warship of that size.
The US is also keen on India signing two additional military pacts - the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA)-that are considered essential for technology exchange.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/09/in-midway-deal-india-seeks-high-end.html
 

smestarz

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I would personally prefer the Jet powered reaper, Jet powered planes can fly higher than prop driven plane and hence can be more effective.

In midway deal, India seeks high end technology information from its armed UAV program

India has found a midway to take discussions forward during the recent visit of a delegation led by Manohar Parrikar to the US.
NEW DELHI:
With Washington reluctant to open up on transfer of high end technology from its armed Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) program, India has found a midway to take discussions forward during the recent visit of a delegation led by defence minister Manohar Parrikar to the US.
While a reconnaissance version of the Predator UAV is on offer to the Indian Navy for its requirements, India has been keener on the armed variant but has not met with equal enthusiasm on the other side.
Sources have told ET that India made a renewed pitch for the Predator during the visit after its entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). "We have asked for detailed technical specifications of the Predator and have said that the payload (weapons package) can be discussed at a later stage," a source aware of the Indo-US talks told ET.
India is now likely to get technical specifications and details of the 'hard points', on which the weapons are mounted. Officials said that significant talks were made during the visit on the possibility of manufacturing a US-origin fighter jet in India to meet requirements of the Air Force that are expected to exceed 100 planes.
In midway deal, India seeks high end technology information for UAV sans arms
Both the Boeing F/A 18 Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F 16 block 70 are on offer to India with technology transfer. India,however, has also set its eyes on high-end technology like the Predator drone that the US deploys frequently on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Such an acquisition will bolster India's offensive options along some of its porous borders.
Sources also told ET that while several other technology sharing proposals were discussed at meetings in Washington, it was evident that progress on the aircraft carrier working group have slowed down. From the Indian side, the project is not on the priority list due to the expenses involved and from Washington's side there is no intention yet of offering nuclear power plant technology that will be needed for a warship of that size.
The US is also keen on India signing two additional military pacts - the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA)-that are considered essential for technology exchange.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/09/in-midway-deal-india-seeks-high-end.html
 

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