IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

captscooby81

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@TheHurtLocker

Who needs it most, if anyone?

So are submarine-launched air missiles really a capability we’ll find widespread on submarines in the future? Maybe: But there will be a clear delineation in the motives of the countries that deploy them.

These systems might prove most valuable on diesel-electric submarines, especially those that are not air-independent propulsion (AIP) equipped, and have to surface far more often to recharge their batteries. With the window for undersea operations narrowed, a SLAM at least gives air-breathing subs a shot at defending themselves from an imminent attack.

These boats spend much of their operational careers close to shore in littoral combat environments where hiding places are prevalent, but once detected, escape options may be limited. But even then, SLAMs would be a weapon of last resort—used under extreme circumstances due to its massive implications.

Another hindrance is that diesel electric subs have less space for weaponry and sensor masts than their larger and more complex nuclear counterparts. Taking up valuable real estate with a questionable last line of defense weapon may prove unpalatable. IDAS, with its potential land and surface attack capability, would at least exchange multi-role flexibility for the space it takes up and the cost of integration and training.

Considering China’s large fleet of diesel-electric submarines, shallow operating areas in the South China Sea, and the prevalence of American, Japanese and other navies in the region operating high-quality anti-submarine warfare capabilities, a Chinese SLAM may become a reality in the near future. In fact, the PLAN has worked on various submarine-based anti-aircraft weapons concepts in the past.


The DCNS SLAM missile they were talking about in the brochure


 

lcafanboy

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Upgrade option for the SUT to Seahake

IN using this option for upgrade which will make it at par with Black Sharks


http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg1-png.5497/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg2-png.5498/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg3-png.5499/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg4-png.5500/
 

Armand2REP

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The only place that makes sense is if you are being hunted by a helicopter with no other threats around.
 

TheHurtLocker

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^^
The Kalvaris can probably make Jinnah Naval Base Ormara(No Runways here, So only Sea Kings/Z9s) a deserted pigsty while the Orions are tied up with the Kilos and 209s.
 

WolfPack86

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SINO SCAN: TWO NEW KALVARI-CLASS HUNTER-KILLER SUBMARINES TO JOIN INDIAN NAVY THIS YEAR
by Arthur Dominic Villasanta

India's newest and most sophisticated diesel electric-submarines -- INS Kalvari (S50) and INS Khanderi (S51) -- will both be commissioned into the Indian Navy with the year

Both stealth boats are among the six members of the Kalvari-class being built in India. The Kalvari-class is based on the French Scorpène-class boats. It was designed by French naval defense and energy company DCNS and is being manufactured by Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) in Mumbai under Project 75.

INS Kalvari will be commissioned in either July or August. The commissioning of the INS Khanderi is scheduled for December.
INS Khanderi was launched on Jan.12, and is undergoing rigorous tests and trials at harbor and at sea, both surfaced and submerged.

The four other boats in the Kalvari-class are INS Vela (S52), which is to be launched this October and three other boats without formal names: S53, S54 and S55. INS Vela and the three other boats are all under construction.

All boats in the Kalvari-class are hunter killer submarines designed to destroy enemy submarines and warships. They come armed with 18 heavyweight torpedoes or Varunastra torpedoes or SM.39 submarine-launched Exocet anti-ship missiles and 30 mines in place of torpedoes.

They have a speed of 37 km/h submerged; can dive to 350 meters and have a surfaced range of 12,000 km.

INS Kalvari is going through its final phase of trials and "we are hopeful that in July-August we will take delivery," said Admiral Sunil Lanba, Chief of the Naval Staff of the Indian Navy.

Kalvari test-fired a torpedo last May 27 and navy sources said it was the last major test before the submarine joins the navy. Last March, Kalvari test-fired an unspecified Made in India anti-ship missile for the first time.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/06/sino-scan-two-new-kalvari-class-hunter.html
 

harish.kaks

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Do these boats be incorporated with AIP at later stage ? Or only the last two boats will be equipped with it.
 

indiandefencefan

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Do these boats be incorporated with AIP at later stage ? Or only the last two boats will be equipped with it.
None of the six Kalvari class subs will have AIP because the DRDO AIP did not deliver. The upcoming 6 P75i subs will have AIP.
 

Kchontha

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Which company will supply the AIP for 6 p75i submarine? Will this same AIP be fitted with the 6 Kalvari class later on? IN is tolerating with this type of lacklustre performance of DRDO. They have done with ADA's NLCA. Let's hope not this time.
 

indiandefencefan

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Which company will supply the AIP for 6 p75i submarine? Will this same AIP be fitted with the 6 Kalvari class later on? IN is tolerating with this type of lacklustre performance of DRDO. They have done with ADA's NLCA. Let's hope not this time.
It is not known at this point which AIP will equip P75i. Depends on which sub gets selected.
No information as well on whether the the kalvaris will be retrofitted with AIP or not. I'm guessing that this decision will be taken when their mid-life refit date approaches.
 

harish.kaks

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None of the six Kalvari class subs will have AIP because the DRDO AIP did not deliver. The upcoming 6 P75i subs will have AIP.
I know that the AIP is not ready now. But once it is ready can it be incorporated in an already built submarine, or it has to be done only at the time of construction and cannot be modified at later time ? I think they can modify the sub to fit the AIP later when it is ready.
 

lcafanboy

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I know that the AIP is not ready now. But once it is ready can it be incorporated in an already built submarine, or it has to be done only at the time of construction and cannot be modified at later time ? I think they can modify the sub to fit the AIP later when it is ready.
Yes it can be retrofitted with AIP with additional plug in section by cutting the sub into 2 parts and joining this section.
 

indiandefencefan

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I know that the AIP is not ready now. But once it is ready can it be incorporated in an already built submarine, or it has to be done only at the time of construction and cannot be modified at later time ? I think they can modify the sub to fit the AIP later when it is ready.
The sub can be modified but it will be expensive. Cost is also a big factor which can prevent the navy from opting for it.
Otherwise it can be done as @lcafanboy mentioned above.
 

harish.kaks

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The sub can be modified but it will be expensive. Cost is also a big factor which can prevent the navy from opting for it.
Otherwise it can be done as @lcafanboy mentioned above.
But with out AIP the submarine capabilities will be very much hindered, so i feel navy gets them retrofitted in future, once they complete 15 years of their service as a mid life upgrade.
 

BON PLAN

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Upgrade option for the SUT to Seahake

IN using this option for upgrade which will make it at par with Black Sharks


http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg1-png.5497/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg2-png.5498/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg3-png.5499/http://*****************/attachments/sut-pg4-png.5500/
same range and speed than black shark ?
 

Prashant12

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Scorpenes to gain in endurance


Welcome to the club:INS Kalvariis all set to join the Navy by August.File PhotoPAUL NORONHA

Submarines will be retrofitted with new modules six years after induction
The Navy is planning to instal Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) modules on all six Scorpene submarines to extend their endurance. This will be done when the submarines go for normal refit which is six years after their induction.

“Yes, the Navy plans to instal the AIP plugs during the refit for all the six submarines,” defence sources told The Hindu .

However, officials said that it was a long and expensive process, involving re-designing, as it would entail opening up the hull of the submarine, then integrating the plug before resealing it.

“The AIP has to be ready and has to be validated and certified. Then the submarine design has to be redesigned as well since the plug has to be integrated. This means conducting the full set of trials and certifications before the submarine is back in service,” one official told The Hindu .

The first Scorpene submarine INS Kalvari is all set to join the Navy by August and would go for its normal refit in 2023. The remaining five submarines are expected to be inducted at nine-month intervals.

The official said preparation for the AIP provision has to begin right away to be able to meet the timelines. “It would require approval at the highest levels. That will also take time,” he added.

This also means that the time of the refit would be extended. Generally a normal refit takes between 12-18 months.

Increased performance

AIP module is not part of the original Scorpene contract but the Navy has been keen on having them fitted on the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being manufactured by the Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai.

An AIP module is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and was supposed to be installed on the last two submarines before they roll out of the production line.

However, delay in the module’s development seems to have scuttled the plan.

The module enables conventional submarines to remain underwater for longer duration, greatly increasing their stealth characteristics.

Bernard G. Buisson, Managing Director of DCNS, told The Hindu earlier that there was no chance of installing the plugs on the 5th and 6th submarines now and the only way would be installing them during the refit.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/endurance-of-scorpenes-to-go-up/article19152118.ece
 

lcafanboy

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Scorpenes to gain in endurance


Welcome to the club:INS Kalvariis all set to join the Navy by August.File PhotoPAUL NORONHA

Submarines will be retrofitted with new modules six years after induction
The Navy is planning to instal Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) modules on all six Scorpene submarines to extend their endurance. This will be done when the submarines go for normal refit which is six years after their induction.

“Yes, the Navy plans to instal the AIP plugs during the refit for all the six submarines,” defence sources told The Hindu .

However, officials said that it was a long and expensive process, involving re-designing, as it would entail opening up the hull of the submarine, then integrating the plug before resealing it.

“The AIP has to be ready and has to be validated and certified. Then the submarine design has to be redesigned as well since the plug has to be integrated. This means conducting the full set of trials and certifications before the submarine is back in service,” one official told The Hindu .

The first Scorpene submarine INS Kalvari is all set to join the Navy by August and would go for its normal refit in 2023. The remaining five submarines are expected to be inducted at nine-month intervals.

The official said preparation for the AIP provision has to begin right away to be able to meet the timelines. “It would require approval at the highest levels. That will also take time,” he added.

This also means that the time of the refit would be extended. Generally a normal refit takes between 12-18 months.

Increased performance

AIP module is not part of the original Scorpene contract but the Navy has been keen on having them fitted on the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being manufactured by the Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai.

An AIP module is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and was supposed to be installed on the last two submarines before they roll out of the production line.

However, delay in the module’s development seems to have scuttled the plan.

The module enables conventional submarines to remain underwater for longer duration, greatly increasing their stealth characteristics.

Bernard G. Buisson, Managing Director of DCNS, told The Hindu earlier that there was no chance of installing the plugs on the 5th and 6th submarines now and the only way would be installing them during the refit.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/endurance-of-scorpenes-to-go-up/article19152118.ece
Confirms my earlier post of Scorpenes to be upgraded with AIP.........:)
 

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