IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by LETHALFORCE, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    i dont get it , france asked for more money for scorpene and we gave it to them ,media did not attack that but they blasted the groshkov deal out of proportion ,why this ,i mean asking for price hike on the part of france was not fair
     
  2. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    The whole system is so messy that it contributes to the whole project getting delayed and the the suppliers are able to use the price increase clause.

    In fact when we used to quote for defence contratcs the norm was

    Hike offer by 50 to 75% for itmes currently under production
    and for new itmes under development increase the price by 100 to 150%

    This was done purely because of the delays and the endemic corruption in the system. Before we started to follwo this our organisation always made losses in Defence orders.
     
  3. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    sob is absolutely right! only thing is he forgot to add a zero !!!!! it should have been 500% to 750%!!!!!!:help:

    our coffers will soon go empty with this kind of gorshaCOW milking!!!!!
     
  4. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Stupidity sheer supidity
    Hangs his head in shame!
     
  5. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think scorpene has capacity to have a small nuclear reactor (correct me if I am wrong) who knows this all nonsense is for getting those :D like gorshakov price ruckus is for getting akula and help in ATV :)
     
  6. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Quite possible the Brazilian quest for a nuclear boat is based on the scorpene platform(albeit an enlarged and suitably modified scorpene platform) so who knows maybe there's something in the works we're not being told about.
    [​IMG]
    model of the Brazilian nuclear submarine to be based on the scorpene
     
  7. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence in its latest report to Parliament last week mentioned that the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) had during March 2003 directed that the Navy should not let the force level fall below 140 ships as against the existing force level of 130 ships


    Close on the heels of the Parliamentary Standing Committee that took serious note of the shortage of ships and submarines, the Indian Navy on Tuesday pushed the envelope asking the government to identify shipyards to begin construction of the second line of submarines as per plans.

    The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence in its latest report to Parliament last week mentioned that the Defence Acquisition Council(DAC) had during March 2003 directed that the Navy should not let the force level fall below 140 ships as against the existing force level of 130 ships .

    “The Committee take note of the shortage of the ships and submarines seriously and would like to recommend that all efforts should be made to expedite the acquisition/ Construction of the ships/submarines so that at least the existing fleet of ships/ Submarines do not fall below the minimum required level,” the Committee report said.

    At the latest meeting of the DAC here, the Navy said it is time to start identifying shipyards where six submarines of the French-Scorpene series could be taken up.

    Sources in the Ministry said the Navy’s push also comes as its submarine force level is depleting and as per current estimates it is expected to drop to 60 per cent of the current level of 16 odd submarines over the next five-six years and touch 50 per cent by 2020.

    Behind schedule

    At present six Scorpene submarines are being built at the Mazagoan Dock and the project is running behind schedule. The first submarines are likely to be inducted only by 2012 with the entire first phase due to be completed by 2017.

    As per Indian Navy Staff Qualitative Requirements plan approved a decade ago, 24 submarines were to be constructed in series. The project-75 envisaged six of these to be constructed in the first phase (2000-2012) and the balance in the second phase (2013-2030).

    Now, the Navy wants the government to identify the shipyards so that the second batch of 6 under project-75 India is undertaken and the rest 12 being wholly indigenous.

    A recent report of the Comptroller and Auditor General too had noted that delay in finalisation of acquisition of submarines coupled with the time lag in the induction of the first submarine in 2012, the inventory of the operational submarines available for the Navy would be “at its lowest ebb and this would lead to serious operational ramifications.”
     
  8. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    When did the Scorpene get selected for the second batch of six submarines?
    i Believe the submarines to be built under that project are still to be finalized with the Navantia S-1000 and the Rubin Amur as frontrunners!
     
  9. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    the original deal had an option for 6 more as per this -

    India’s Multi-billion Dollar Scorpene Sub Contract
     
  10. NiketRC

    NiketRC Regular Member

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    Is it true that U 214 is better then Scorpene ?
     
  11. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    That's what i want to know are we exercising that option ?if yes is it at the same price? are the next six all going to be AIP or not?
     
  12. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    On paper they have their differences but no one can say whether U-214 is better or scorpene until both meet in underwater combat and one sinks the other. Also just technology does not matter training of personnel also matters "A submarine is only as good as the crew that mans it".
     
  13. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    no idea about both.

    infact from the 3rd boat (from the six scorpenes) of project 75, it was supposed to be AIP.
    from NTI: Submarine: India Capabilities

    this was post pakistan inducting AIP agosta.
     
  14. nandu

    nandu Senior Member Senior Member

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    In my point of view indian defence (including public enterprises and politician)planners are worst in the world.They simply dont bother about security of nation and made ill thought deals with any vision.This is very clear in scorpane deal also.
     
  15. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    defense planners are good but when it comes to politicians ,then things go worse
     
  16. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    God damn these french .. everything French is costly . from cost to production to maintenance. lets hope we dont buy anything french in future...
     
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Damn the French? How about damn Indian MoD and their quest to pretend to build indigenously. That is the cause of your delay. The price of our systems are subject to market forces like all other defence items. If you had nailed down a price back then, this would be a none issue. Blame everyone but yourself... You aren't the only one paying high prices for French arms, our military does it everyday.
     
  18. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well it is a blog (although ajay sir is a respected person )and we don't know what exactly is the actual cause until some official report comes in. Hence it will be highly speculative to comment on this issue (may be some extra component getting added and extra cost is for that purpose). But for the argument sake if we consider that MoD as a buyer has made a mistake of not getting the price written on paper but no body can allocate a budget on a speculation basis and if the seller is taking the buyer for a ride then might be the seller is not interested in working with the buyer on a long term basis at least this is what the picture is emerging. may be France knows the US entry is making there chances less hence make as much money you can in existing deal. Extremely short term view of the relationship from France side.
     
  19. notinlove

    notinlove Regular Member

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    All i can do is be me, whoever that is.
    well this coupled with the arm twisting by thales in the mirage deal as well as thales getting blacklisted(not sure about it) doesn't bode well for the rafale in the mmrca
     
  20. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Thales isn't blacklisted. If it was, you wouldn't be getting Catherine FC for the T-90s nor would you get components for the Scorpene, avionics for the aviation nor digital communications for Rolta. Thales is one of India's biggest defence partners with annual sales nearing $1 billion.
     

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