IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[Killswitch]

All I know for sure is that the Scorpene deal is overpriced behind schedule and hurting defense preparedness.

What to do about this?

Maybe stop relying on public sector companies and bring in the private sector?

 

[lambu]

DCNS India delivers to MDL the first locally produced Scorpene submarines equipments

The shipyard Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) has received the first Indian made equipment for the Scorpene submarines programme (P75). MDL has congratulated this successful industrial performance during the recently held Government to Government (G2G) meeting between India and France.

MDL is producing six SSK Scorpene submarines (P75) under transfer of technology (ToT) from DCNS. Simultaneously, DCNS India*, DCNS Group's subsidiary in India, is working at the selection and qualification of Indian companies as partners for local production of the Scorpenes' equipments.

In June 2011, DCNS India has signed a contract with Flash Forge India Pvt. Ltd. under the Scorpene submarines programme (P75). "We are providing our Indian partners with know-how and technical assistance to manufacture equipments which will be installed onboard the Scorpenes. Together with MDL, we are qualifying the suitable companies which are meeting the rigorous specifications needed for the submarines", reminded Bernard Buisson, Managing Director of DCNS India.

The Factory Acceptance Test (FAT) for the first locally made Scorpenes' equipment (for the large scale piping system) was successfully performed at Flash Forge premises in Vishakapatnam in January 2012.

The success of the manufacture and delivery of this first indigenisation contract with Flash Forge India Pvt. Ltd. is the culmination of a long and stringent process, involving:
"¢ Preliminary audits of the manufacturing and quality processes, performed by experts from DCNS France;
"¢ Certification of the prototypes to three different laboratories, including a DCNS laboratory for Naval Material and Structures, in order to validate the good manufacturing of the equipment;
"¢ Frequent interactions between Flash Forge and DCNS teams during the manufacturing process.

This delivery is especially significant since the quality of each equipment onboard submarines contribute to the overall safety of the crew on board and of the ship performance. Flash Forge has already proven experiences in forgings and pipe fittings with MDL and other Indian shipyards. Today, through the participation in the P75 Scorpene submarines, higher standards of qualifications have been achieved.

Bernard Buisson said, "Given the relative small quantities of each material to be manufactured, DCNS is looking for long term partnerships. And each potential industrial partner needs to demonstrate a willingness to invest in the required specific infrastructure development. We are very pleased with commitment shown by Flash Forge".

The same comprehensive selection method is under way for other equipments and more contracts with Indian partners will be announced shortly.

DCNS India delivers to MDL the first locally produced Scorpene submarines equipments | idrw.org

 

[bhramos]

Livefist: First Local Kit For Indian Scorpenes Arrives

 

[JAYRAM]

 

[lambu]

Delivery of Scorpene submarines delayed: Govt of India

NEW DELHI (PTI): The delivery of the six Scorpene submarines, which are being constructed at the Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai, has been revised and the first vessel will be ready by June 2015, the government of India told the Lok Sabha on Monday.

In a written reply on delivery of the submarines being constructed under Project-75, Defence Minister A K Antony said, "The delivery schedule of the first submarine has been revised to June 2015 and that of the last submarine to September 2018."

The original delivery schedule of the first submarine was December 2012 and remaining were to be delivered with a gap of one year each.

"Consequent to the approval of the government for revision of cost and delivery schedule, the delivery schedule of the first submarine has been revised," he said.

The government approval for construction of the six submarines at MDL under Project-75 was accorded in September 2005 at a total cost of Rs 18,798 crore and the contract was signed in October 2005, Antony said.

The "government approval for revision in cost of the project to Rs 23,562 crore was accorded in February 2010 along with revision in delivery schedule," he said.

Delay in construction is attributable to initial teething problems in absorption of new technology, delay in augmentation of industrial infrastructure at MDL and delay in procurement of items due to high cost as compared to the earlier indicated cost, Antony said.

"Most of the teething problems have been resolved and various plans have been put in place to minimise delays," he told the House.

Delivery of Scorpene submarines delayed: Govt of India - Brahmand.com

 

[nrj]

old news.......

 

[JAYRAM]

Scorpene submarines delayed by three years: Antony

Published March 19, 2012

India will induct the six Scorpene submarines that it is building at the Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) only beginning 2015, a full three years behind the original schedule despite a hike in the project's cost, parliament was informed on Monday.

All the six submarines will be inducted by 2018 at a revised cost of Rs 23,562 crore ($4.6 billion), nearly a Rs 5,000 crore ($1 billion) increase from the originally approved cost of Rs 18,798 crore ($3.6 billion). This information was provided by Defence Minister A.K. Antony in a written reply in the Lok Sabha.

"The original delivery schedule of the first submarine was December 2012 and remaining submarines were to be delivered with a gap of one year each. Consequent to the approval of the government for revision in cost and delivery schedule, the delivery schedule of the first submarine has been revised to June 2015 and that of the last (sixth) submarine to September 2018," Antony said.

The six Scorpenes are being constructed at MDL under Project-75 under technology transfer from French firm DCNS. The government approval for construction of the six submarines was accorded in September 2005 at a total cost of Rs 18,798 crore and the contract was signed in October 2005.

The government approval for revision in cost of the project to Rs 23,562 crore was accorded in February 2010, along with revision in delivery schedule.

"The delay in construction of Scorpene submarines is attributable to initial teething problems in absorption of new technology, delay in augmentation of industrial infrastructure at MDL and delay in procurement of items by MDL due to their high cost as compared to the earlier indicated cost," the defence minister said. "Most of the teething problems have been resolved and various plans have been put in place to minimise delays," he added.

As part of the technology transfer for the six submarines under construction at MDL, a technical data package has been provided by the collaborator (DCNS).

"This will enable attainment of significant indigenous competence in submarine construction, especially in the field of hull fabrication, outfitting, and system integration by the end of the programme," he added.

Scorpene submarines delayed by three years: Antony | idrw.org

 

[H.A.]

I can't seem to get the proper information on this, One article says HSL will build a submarine another says only MDL will build all submarines...which one is correct.

I assume the second one because I know that HSL does not have the required infrastructure yet. However please let me know what is the correct news is HSL making a sub or not.

 

[bhramos]

Scorpene submarine sea trials in 2013 - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: The first of the six Scorpene submarines ordered by the Indian Navy will be launched for sea trials in 2013, a top official of the firm constructing the submarines has said.

India had placed orders for six Scorpene submarines with French firm DCNS in 2005, of which the first is expected to be commissioned into the Navy by mid-2015 after a delay of around three years.

"As per the schedule, the first Scorpene submarine would be 95 per cent ready towards end of 2013 after which it will be launched for sea trials," DCNS' India head Bernard G Buisson told PTI here.

Sea trials of a submarine are carried out when almost all the weapon systems and sensors to be deployed on board it are integrated.

He said most of the issues causing delays in the submarine programme have been sorted out and expressed confidence that there would be no further delays in the programme.

The six Scorpenes are being constructed at the Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL) under Project-75 under technology transfer from French firm DCNS.

The government approval for construction of the six submarines was accorded in September 2005 at a total cost of Rs 18,798 crore and the contract was signed in October that year.

The project cost was revised to Rs 23,562 crore in February 2010, along with revision in delivery schedule.

Commenting on the delays experienced in the project, Defence Minister A K Antony had recently told Parliament that "Most of the teething problems have been resolved and various plans have been put in place to minimise delays."

 

[Sridhar]

DCNS India Signs P75 Scorpene Submarines Contract

Posted on Mar 23rd, 2012 with tags contract, DCNS, India, Naval, Navy, News by topic, P75, Scorpene, Signs, Submarines.

DCNS Signs P75 Scorpene Submarines Contract

DCNS, a world leader in naval defence, signed through DCNS India a contract with SEC Industries worth Rs 310-cr (approximately €50 million) for the local manufcture of equipment for the P75 Scorpene submarines*.

DCNS India** signed a contract with SEC Industries for the manufacture of equipment (hull hatches, cofferdam doors, knuckle hoses, ballast vent valves, High Pressure air cylinders, weapon handling and storage system). Over the coming years, SEC will manufacture equipment under a TOT provided by DCNS India and they will be progressively delivered to our customer, Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), for integration onboard the P75 Scorpene submarines.

"The contract with SEC is part of the indigenization program implemented by DCNS India under the P75 Mazagon Purchased Materials (MPM) contracts. Through this will to manufacture in India, we are developing strong industrial partnerships and capabilities for the P75 and future programs. Together with our partners, we are positioning ourselves for the long term", declared Bernard Buisson, Managing Director of DCNS India.

The concerned equipment are highly specific due to the physical constraints they will face onboard the submarines. As for the recent deliveries from Flash Forge, the local production will follow DCNS' strict quality standards to ensure the submarines' optimal performances with maximum safety over the long term.

DCNS, through DCNS India and its support teams in France, is providing SEC Industries with training sessions:

In France, over 40 SEC personnel are to be trained within DCNS facilities for over a year periods (on 2012 and 2013);
In Hyderabad, DCNS India will provide On the Job Training and technical support to assist the implementation of manufacturing processes and Quality Control procedures for a period of 5 years.

DCNS India will also provide the technical data package for the manufacturing and a 24/7 local assistance in order to allow SEC to meet quality requirement and on-time deliveries.

D. Vidyasagar, Managing Director of SEC Industries said "Through this contract, our company will gain in technology terms, infrastructure and trained manpower."

"SEC Industries is upgrading its capabilities: set-up of a new workshop dedicated to this program, acquisition of new industrials means for sanding, welding and painting and recruitment of skilled manpower; technicians and engineers. Together with SEC we are investing in technology transfer for the satisfaction of our stakeholders and to be in position to get future orders from our esteemed Customer", Bernard Buisson concluded.

In June 2011, DCNS India has signed a contract with Flash Forge India Pvt. Ltd. to supply equipment under the P75 Scorpene submarines program. The first equipment under this contract were delivered to MDL earlier this year.

Since DCNS India will be tying up with more Indian companies in the frame of P75, further announcements are to be made in future.

* Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) is producing six SSK Scorpene submarines (P75) under transfer of technology (ToT) from DCNS. Simultaneously, DCNS India, DCNS Group's subsidiary based in Mumbai, is working at the selection and qualification of Indian companies as partners for local production of the Scorpenes' equipments. The first Scorpene submarine is to be launched at the end of 2013 and commissioned in 2015. The last Scorpene is expected to be commissioned in 2018.

** DCNS India Private Limited was inaugurated in March 2009 in Mumbai. It is specializing in naval services. DCNS India's main missions are to support the naval shipyards and industries (Naval Technical Advice Department), to develop local services with Indian talents (Design & Marine Engineering Department), to achieve localized production with large base industrial partners (Program Department) and to extend sourcing opportunities for both local and international needs (Sourcing & Purchasing Department).
DCNS India Signs P75 Scorpene Submarines Contract >> Naval Today



DCNS signs with SEC Industries a contract for the local manufacture of equipment for the Indian Scorpene submarines


vandaag, 02:22 - 6 x gezien - door wie? Word Goldmember!
DCNS India** signed a contract with SEC Industries for the manufacture of equipment (hull hatches, cofferdam doors, knuckle hoses, ballast vent valves, High Pressure air cylinders, weapon handling and storage system).
Over the coming years, SEC will manufacture equipment under a TOT provided by DCNS India and they will be progressively delivered to our customer, Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), for integration onboard the P75 Scorpene submarines.
"The contract with SEC is part of the indigenization program implemented by DCNS India under the P75 Mazagon Purchased Materials (MPM) contracts. Through this will to manufacture in India, we are developing strong industrial partnerships and capabilities for the P75 and future programs. Together with our partners, we are positioning ourselves for the long term", declared Bernard Buisson, Managing Director of DCNS India.

DCNS signs with SEC Industries a contract for the local manufacture of equipment for the Indian Scorpene submarines - Hyves

 

[ajay_ijn]

"The delay in construction of Scorpene submarines is attributable to initial teething problems in absorption of new technology, delay in augmentation of industrial infrastructure at MDL and delay in procurement of items by MDL due to their high cost as compared to the earlier indicated cost," the defence minister said. "Most of the teething problems have been resolved and various plans have been put in place to minimise delays," he added.

And Navy expects to have a force of SSBNs & SSNs designed & built in India. Indeed i can realise why Arihant is such an achievement of the defence industry.

no other country in the world will have such a huge difference in Industry capabilities and Force ambitions/visions.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

DCNS Signs With SEC Industries Contract For Manufacture Of Equipment For Indian Scorpene Submarines

DCNS India signed a contract with SEC Industries for the manufacture of equipment (hull hatches, cofferdam doors, knuckle hoses, ballast vent valves, High Pressure air cylinders, weapon handling and storage system). Over the coming years, SEC will manufacture equipment under a TOT provided by DCNS India and they will be progressively delivered to our customer, Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), for integration onboard the P75 Scorpene submarines.

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

 

[Neil]

DCNS' Patrick Boissier: India is such an amazing experience

Patrick Boissier, chairman and CEO of French naval construction giant DCNS, gives you the impression that nothing else excites him more than your questions. But he isn't being deceptive. "We are happy to state that our integration and working relationship with MDL (Mazagon Docks) is seamless and operationally efficient," he says. Under the ongoing P75 programme – India's biggest submarine-building project – MDL is producing six Scorpene submarines through a transfer-oftechnology deal with DCNS.

On reasons for the delay in the P75 programme, he says one has to approach the question in the context of the project's complexity. "The Scorpene programme by its very nature is huge, complex and challenging both in terms of competences and the industrial means involved," notes Boissier, who was in Delhi recently. Boissier adds that "integration of large teams always take time". He adds, "On a technical point of view, a submarine needs to fulfil strong requirements (safety of the crew, acoustic discretion, reliability, availability, etc), while operating in harsh environments. When the submarine dives, the physical constraints involved are very important. Temperature variations and repeated dives mean your submarine's structure will go through a lot of dilatations and contractions. One needs to be precise and accurate not only in the design phase but also in the manufacture and assembling of every part involved. This is when the DCNS team liaises with MDL providing daily training and support on the supervision."

Moreover, according to him, one has to bear in mind that MDL had stopped manufacturing submarines for more than 10 years until the P75 programme was awarded. "As expected, teething problems are inevitable and MDL has been able to overcome them in only some three years."

"To date, MDL has completed fabrication of the hulls of five submarines. The sixth hull shall be completed by the yearend and outfitting works are in progress on the first submarine," he adds, emphasising that "this is a commendable accomplishment." Boissier finds the Indian Navy as well as Indian companies experienced in their respective fields.

"The learning opportunity for DCNS and the Indian companies is quite mutual," he notes. "With support from MDL, DCNS is working at selection and qualification of Indian companies as partners for local production of equipment for Scorpenes. For example, with the expertise and cooperation of Flash Forge India, DCNS India has delivered the first locally-produced Scorpene submarine equipment to MDL. Additionally, DCNS India has announced a partnership recently with SEC Industries India under the Scorpene submarine programme," he explains.

He goes on to dwell at length on his other India projects. "DCNS is aiming at P75I (a follow-up to P75) and the LPD (landing platform docks) programme.

In P75I, we have answered the RFI (request for information) and are now waiting for the RFP (request for proposal). We believe that we will be in a position to propose a submarine meeting all the expectations."
"We believe our Mistral-class amphibious ship could be the answer on needs of the Indian Navy's modernisation programme," he adds.

On innovative projects in the pipeline, including underwater nuclear energy projects, he says, "DCNS has built up a unique expertise in the course of its history on securing the oceans (it builds warships and submarines besides offering other naval services). Today, we want to go further by developing solutions not only to secure, but also to make the most of the oceans in a sustainable way."

He adds, "In civil nuclear energy,we are developing a subsea nuclear power plant named FlexBlue.

The FlexBlue concept calls for plant housed in a cylindrical hull measuring around 100 m in length. Flex-Blue plants are designed to be moored on an extremely-stable sea floor at a depth of 60-100 ma few kilometres offshore. A FlexBlue plant should be able to meet the electricity requirements of regions with a population of 1-10 lakh, depending on the plant's power rating, living standards and the needs of local industries."

He hastens to add that the company came up with this concept even before last year's Fukushima nuclear disaster. "Fukushima was a very tragic event. Japan faced both a striking earthquake and a huge tsunami.

The power plant was hit by both and faced structural damages and cooling issues. FlexBlue is to be moored on the seabed; it wouldn't be endangered by earthquakes. As FlexBlue is to be installed at a depth of 60-100 m a few kilometres offshore, tsunamis wouldn't have any impact."

He says DCNS is investing heavily in research and development on "four key renewable marine energies". They include offshore floating windmills on which first trials at sea are expected by early 2013.

"We are also focusing on wave energy, ocean thermal energy conversion and tidal stream energy," he says.

"We believe India – through its huge maritime footprint – would be interested in more of our solutions," he sums up.



DCNS’ Patrick Boissier: India is such an amazing experience | idrw.org

 

[nrj]

No doubt DCNS CEO is talking good about MDL. Chances are that MDL will grab further Scorpene order if P75A goes in favor of Scorpene.

 

[Armand2REP]

DCNS-SEC sets up facility for Scorpene project

HYDERABAD, JULY 16:
French defence shipbuilder DCNS and Hyderabad-based SEC Industries today inaugurated a dedicated facility here for making key components for the six Scorpene submarines being built for the Indian Navy.

This marks a significant milestone in the indigenisation process for the Rs 20,000-crore Scorpene submarine project, which is being developed with DCNS technology. The first of these will be rolled out from Mazagaon Dock Ltd by 2015. From then on, one submarine every nine months will be rolled out.

The entire delivery will be completed by 2018.

As part of the deal with DCNS, the French submarine builder has committed to increase the scope of indigenisation by setting up joint ventures with Indian companies to manufacture different components. DCNS, which has signed joint ventures with three companies, including SEC, will be teaming up with another 30 companies for the Scorpene project.

State-owned Mazagaon Dock, which is making four of these submarines, has already achieved hull manufacturing capabilities for the submarines through DCNS technology transfer. The shipbuilder is slated to complete the hulls for all the six submarines by the year end.

The facility at SEC, which is engaged in manufacture of aerospace and defence products, will be making 14 key components that can be fitted directly into the submarines. The components include ballast vent valves, high pressure air cylinders, hull hatches and weapon handling systems.

The 1500-sq-mt SEC workshop is already set to deliver the first of cofferdam door coamings for the submarines.

OFFSET POLICY:

The Union Minister of State for Defence, Mr M.M. Pallam Raju, who inaugurated the facility, said India was re-building its lost skill sets for submarine building with French technology.

He said Indian companies had already received orders worth Rs 20,000 crore under the defence offset policy. The Ministry was constantly tweaking the policy as "our aim is to make it an enabling policy", he said.

Mr Francois Richier, French Ambassador to India, said the two countries were keen on taking forward their engagement in the defence sector.

Business Line : Industry & Economy News : DCNS-SEC sets up facility for Scorpene project

 

[Daredevil]

Indian Navy Submarines Delayed Until 2015

September 03, 2012

NEW DELHI — Delivery of the Indian navy's first Scorpene submarine has slipped two-and-a-half years to June 2015.

"The original delivery schedule of the first submarine was December 2012 and remaining submarines were to be delivered with a gap of one year each," Defense Minister A. K. Antony says. "Consequent to the approval of the government for revision in cost and delivery schedule in 2010, the delivery of the first submarine has been revised to June 2015 and that of the last (6th) submarine to September 2018.

The 235.62-billion-rupee ($4.2 billion) effort to build six French Scorpene submarines at the state-owned Mazagon Docks is dubbed "Project-75." The delay in construction is being attributed to problems with the absorption of new technology, delays in the augmentation of industrial infrastructure at MDL, and delays in the procurement of some items by MDL due to cost growth, the minister says.

Antony says the Indian navy's modernization priorities are the induction of frigates, destroyers, fast attack craft, submarines, surveillance aircraft, and aircraft carriers.

In July 1999, the government approved a 30-year submarine building plan, which envisaged the induction of 12 new submarines in Phase-I (2000-2012) and another 12 in Phase-II (2012-2030).

India's indigenously built nuclear-powered submarine, the INS Arihant, soon will be setting off on sea trials. The over 6,000-ton Arihant sub will join the 8,000-ton INS Chakra, the former Russian Nerpa Akula II-class nuclear submarine that India took control on a 10-year lease in January 2012.

Source: Aviation Week

 

[uss]

Is there any concrete information about india is going for follow on order of 3 more Scorpene submarine, apart from the TOI news below. i think we are yet to heard anything from Indian Navy or MoD.
With eye on China & Pak, India to revamp sub fleet - Times Of India

The time & cost overrun that have occurred in this project,it would be cheaper for MDL to build another 3 submarine of scorpene class. They are going to have even a 2nd Line for scorpene from 2014. After so much trouble at least the industrial base & supplier group for scorpene has been established & they are starting to deliver. These follow on order seems to be quickest viable option for filling our depleted submarine strength (apart from extra Akula from Russia, if any such deal is there).

Even going with the new 75I tender as per our GoI process , it will take us near to 2020-22 at the earliest when we can expect the newly acquired submarines joining the IN (if every thing goes well ).

Can anyone please advice on this ?

 

[noob101]

Is there any concrete information about india is going for follow on order of 3 more Scorpene submarine, apart from the TOI news below. i think we are yet to heard anything from Indian Navy or MoD.
With eye on China & Pak, India to revamp sub fleet - Times Of India

The time & cost overrun that have occurred in this project,it would be cheaper for MDL to build another 3 submarine of scorpene class. They are going to have even a 2nd Line for scorpene from 2014. After so much trouble at least the industrial base & supplier group for scorpene has been established & they are starting to deliver. These follow on order seems to be quickest viable option for filling our depleted submarine strength (apart from extra Akula from Russia, if any such deal is there).

Even going with the new 75I tender as per our GoI process , it will take us near to 2020-22 at the earliest when we can expect the newly acquired submarines joining the IN (if every thing goes well ).

Can anyone please advice on this ?

I would have to agree follow on order of 3-4 scorpenes would seen like the best thing for IN although I can the advantage for waiting out for P75i even if it goes till 2020 ... I think that IN wants land attack capabilities for the next generation submarines and Scorpenes are limited in that way, i suspect when P75i comes through IN and MoD will want to follow on the order for that class of submarines

 

[average american]

If I am not mistaken even the Russian Navy is having second thoughts about the scorpenes so you may be able to get them at a good price. At least the monkey versions.

 

[agentperry]

whats program pace. i almost forget india is going for 6 scorpene. its soo sloww