In future we may have to shop elsewhere--Russian arms industry in decline

[LETHALFORCE]

Russians have now successfully tested SLBM's and are producing 5th generation fighter planes(PAKFA). This is not any indication of a decline. The one area where there maybe a decline is in the Naval side?? This is a hint for India to diversify it's arms suppliers by suppliers looking for to get into the Indian market.

 

[Tshering22]

LF, even on Naval side, Russia's supplied us cutting edge equipment as late as last year when "Dadima" was present at Yantar shipyard to inaugurate our warships. The problem is Russian armed forces are not ordering the same advanced system due to I don't know how but cash crunch despite Russian government being so rich. So its companies are relying on Indian, Vietnamese, Malay, Venezuelan and other nations' orders to fill up their profits. When there's hi-tech stuff made for foreign exports and not for local industry, the cycle gets ruined.

Russian government has to pump in billions into their ailing industries for diversifying if they want to stand a chance against Chinese who've a copied solution for every Russian ship and half the price.

Western companies are technically here for some loss as they tend to overcharge for their products which the emerging countries won't be willing to pay=--- meaning Russian industry still has a silver lining to capitalize on. And GOI's move to privatize arms industries in future would mean more JV products can be made with them.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LF, even on Naval side, Russia's supplied us cutting edge equipment as late as last year when "Dadima" was present at Yantar shipyard to inaugurate our warships. The problem is Russian armed forces are not ordering the same advanced system due to I don't know how but cash crunch despite Russian government being so rich. So its companies are relying on Indian, Vietnamese, Malay, Venezuelan and other nations' orders to fill up their profits. When there's hi-tech stuff made for foreign exports and not for local industry, the cycle gets ruined.

Russian government has to pump in billions into their ailing industries for diversifying if they want to stand a chance against Chinese who've a copied solution for every Russian ship and half the price.

Western companies are technically here for some loss as they tend to overcharge for their products which the emerging countries won't be willing to pay=--- meaning Russian industry still has a silver lining to capitalize on. And GOI's move to privatize arms industries in future would mean more JV products can be made with them.

You are right no T22, Russians know India is too big of a customer to lose they are offering partnerships in many areas Brahmos, PAKFA being 2 examples. There were many decades where Indian money sustained Russian ports, the last example of this was the gorshokov deal.

 

[badguy2000]

LF, even on Naval side, Russia's supplied us cutting edge equipment as late as last year when "Dadima" was present at Yantar shipyard to inaugurate our warships. The problem is Russian armed forces are not ordering the same advanced system due to I don't know how but cash crunch despite Russian government being so rich. So its companies are relying on Indian, Vietnamese, Malay, Venezuelan and other nations' orders to fill up their profits. When there's hi-tech stuff made for foreign exports and not for local industry, the cycle gets ruined.

Russian government has to pump in billions into their ailing industries for diversifying if they want to stand a chance against Chinese who've a copied solution for every Russian ship and half the price.

Western companies are technically here for some loss as they tend to overcharge for their products which the emerging countries won't be willing to pay=--- meaning Russian industry still has a silver lining to capitalize on. And GOI's move to privatize arms industries in future would mean more JV products can be made with them.

Russia's industry chains met irreparable damage after Soivet collapsed,because quite a part of Soviet industry bases are left outside Russia.
Compared with Soivet's full industry chains, Russia's industry chains are broken.

 

[maomao]

Russia's industry chains met irreparable damage after Soivet collapsed,because quite a part of Soviet industry bases are left outside Russia.
Compared with Soivet's full industry chains, Russia's industry chains are broken.

Billions will be invested by India and China to keep the Russian Arms Industry running, and it has been happening for a long time, China can't go anywhere else other than Russia but India can, still we will not let Russian Arms Industry die, and its a fact which no one can deny!

 

[pmaitra]

Billions will be invested by India and China to keep the Russian Arms Industry running, and it has been happening for a long time, China can't go anywhere else other than Russia but India can, still we will not let Russian Arms Industry die, and its a fact which no one can deny!

I think India will keep the Russian Arms Industry afloat. The Russians make good engineers, mathematicians and scientists. They just lack enough funding needed for research. India can provide a significant portion of that funding.

China, on the contrary, will not do much about keeping Russia's Arms Industry alive. China will instead, try to copy, pirate and plagiarise whatever they can from Russia, make their own products and sell them worldwide; the first customer being Pakistan.

 

[Agantrope]

India wont let the russian arms industry to die that easily. Russian weapons of late 80s are still superior than the american weapons of today. What they need is the better electronics and the still better electronics.

Examples i can quote is the Su-30 with the Israel, French and indian suites (MKI) gave the EF2000 a run for money. Also the brahmos missile which is invincible today.

 

[Neil]

Friend, we had our people in thousands to be rescued and they were airlifted to our carrier. You know Nixon and Henry kissinger were openly threatened India to withdraw forces from North Punjab and East Pakistan. They kept mum after the ceasefire by Indian government.

There were conspiracies that Henry Kissinger and Nixon visited China during 1971 war and urged China to interfere from Arunachal Pradesh.. Thats y they call "Only Nixon goes to China".

bro we didnt sent carriers during 2006 rescue we send destroyers...and there were only hundreds of indians but we even rescued sri lankans and bangladeshi's.....so might be in thousands...but we still used warships-does that mean we were at war or threatened either Israel or lebanon...??

agreed that nixon was very anti-indian but you know if the USSR had stick to its gun PoK might have been ours today....it is said that due to china's pressure on USSR[US is to blame for it] they had warned us not to attack west pakistan...today are soldiers are paying this price with their lives

 

[Parthy]

bro we didnt sent carriers during 2006 rescue we send destroyers...and there were only hundreds of indians but we even rescued sri lankans and bangladeshi's.....so might be in thousands...but we still used warships-does that mean we were at war or threatened either Israel or lebanon...??

agreed that nixon was very anti-indian but you know if the USSR had stick to its gun PoK might have been ours today....it is said that due to china's pressure on USSR[US is to blame for it] they had warned us not to attack west pakistan...today are soldiers are paying this price with their lives

Friend.. Hope you have not seen my next post.. It reads as (Reposting)

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"I received the order from the Chief Commander 'To not allow access of the American Navy to the Indian military objects'.

- On the way of American Navy stood the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and atomic submarines equipped with anti-ship missiles.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"We encircled them and I have targeted the 'Enterprise' by missiles. I have blocked them and didnt allow enclosing to Karachi, nor to Chittagong or Dhaka".

On the Soviet ships then were only the missiles with limited to 300 km range. Thus, to be sure the rival is under the hindsight the Russian commanders have had to take the risk of maximal enclosing to the American fleet.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"The Chief Commander has order me: 'Lift the subs when they (the Americans) appear!' It was done to demonstrate, there are all the needed in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I have lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are the Russian atomic submarines here, and a big collection of the battleships'.

What do you say for this?? Does the US AC Battle group came for a trip to Indian Ocean??:emot15:

 

[Neil]

SO Russians were here to protect their own people. Cannot argue against it. If they were superpower why would they send entire fleet to rescue? they can just airlift them to Russia. That will be much faster and cheaper option. Oh wait may be they planned to give a trip of Indian ocean to rescued civilians. Whether they were here for rescue or Picnic truth is that they saved our a** .

you think they will send nuclear sub alone na....even arihant will be provided 2-3 tier protection by different subs.....

oh wow airlifting them....how do you plan it man...??it was war...and IAF would have sparred those airstrip for PAF na....so you need to give them a picnic of indian ocean weather you like it or not....

agreed they saved are a** both here and at UNSC....

 

[Neil]

What do you say for this?? Does the US AC Battle group came for a trip to Indian Ocean??:emot15:

1]well i never said they were on a trip...so
2] US AC are always with so much security-destroyers,cruisers,subs etc.....

yes there is a possibility that they tried to influence the course of war....and they did....because of the carriers the pakistanis surrendered late-confidence of help-but we dont know the reality just placing your warships in bay of bengal is not an act of war....

 

[Parthy]

1]well i never said they were on a trip...so
2] US AC are always with so much security-destroyers,cruisers,subs etc.....

yes there is a possibility that they tried to influence the course of war....and they did....because of the carriers the pakistanis surrendered late-confidence of help-but we dont know the reality just placing your warships in bay of bengal is not an act of war....

Ok fine. Lets check the other way around...

Pakistan has pressed for US interference in 1971 confrontation.. Between US were in talks with China, Iran, Uordan and emirate to put pressure on India.. By that time International community dont know what exactly happening inside Bangladesh.. And even when India raised the issue of Massacre by Pakistan Army we didn't had any proof..

Even the "Blood Telegram" was ignored by Nixon and Kissinger.. It is there in CIA's safe locker... It is RUSSIA who assured us to withhold us in case of interference by either US or China.. That bolstered our forces and Indra Gandhi's confidence to attack full fledged ..

Everybody knows, when Pakistan's defeat was seemed so certain Nixon agreed to send USS Enterprise to threat India.. And it is Russia who stood by their word and trailed the AC battlegroup.. - U dont agree with this??:emot0:

 

[badguy2000]

Billions will be invested by India and China to keep the Russian Arms Industry running, and it has been happening for a long time, China can't go anywhere else other than Russia but India can, still we will not let Russian Arms Industry die, and its a fact which no one can deny!

hehe, in 5 years, Chinese defence industry would ass-kick Russia's in global weapons market .

5 years is not too long, Let's just wait and see.

 

[Singh]

hehe, in 5 years, Chinese defence industry would ass-kick Russia's in global weapons market .

5 years is not too long, Let's just wait and see.

But India would not buy from China, so how is this relevant to the thread ?

 

[badguy2000]

But India would not buy from China, so how is this relevant to the thread ?

Russia could sell weapons to China in spite of Soviet-China bloody conclicts in 1960s and 1970s....

so....nothing is impossible!

 

[Singh]

But the cold war is over now. India would rather engage in military trade with West, Russia, Israel and East Asia, countries who are superior to Chinese tech and are willing to co-operate to manage the looming Chinese threat.

 

[ajtr]

Russia could sell weapons to China in spite of Soviet-China bloody conclicts in 1960s and 1970s....

so....nothing is impossible!

India can buy super duper weapons from china to kick PLA with copied chinese weapon.

 

[badguy2000]

But the cold war is over now. India would rather engage in military trade with West, Russia, Israel and East Asia, countries who are superior to Chinese tech and are willing to co-operate to manage the looming Chinese threat.

for time being, they might be superior.but nobody can asssure what the situation will be in 5 years....

guy, in 2005,nobody here can expect that China's economy will supass Japan now.

 

[Singh]

badguy2000,

5 years is too short a time, going by the current projects Chinese are pretty far behind. As for China overtaking Japanese economy it was foretold in the early noughties.

 

[badguy2000]

badguy2000,

5 years is too short a time, going by the current projects Chinese are pretty far behind. As for China overtaking Japanese economy it was foretold in the early noughties.

5 years might be too short to other country ,but it is enough to a surging country like CHina....

In fact, China started to incread its expenditure for defence R&D just after Taiwan street crisis in 1996,after the "big cut-off" for over one decade.

After one--decade-long R&D, it is now the high time for CHina to harest the fruits planted one decade ago.