Imam of China's largest mosque killed in Xinjiang

[CCP]

The Uighurs identify themselves through their religion (i.e. more than 'just for fighting'). As long as the CCP keeps fooling around with the religious body none of their compromises will have a true impact. If the CCP wants to establish lasting peace with the Uighurs they're going to have to give them full autonomy to peacefully practice their religion on their own terms and concurrently give them a seat at the table. If they don't do this (which I doubt they will) the conflict will only grow.

well,Han population is already 50% at this region and increasing quickly.
After Han population reaches 70%~80% at that region, Uighurs will start to convert to Han rapidly.

 

[s002wjh]

The Uighurs identify themselves through their religion (i.e. more than 'just for fighting'). As long as the CCP keeps fooling around with the religious body none of their compromises will have a true impact. If the CCP wants to establish lasting peace with the Uighurs they're going to have to give them full autonomy to peacefully practice their religion on their own terms and concurrently give them a seat at the table. If they don't do this (which I doubt they will) the conflict will only grow.

how does israel/palestine peace goes, how about ours versus other islamic extremist. its not about autonomy or religion they want independence, establish a mulsim state that something china will not allow.

 

[s002wjh]

This was my understanding of the situation too. Well, until I realized that this feel good narrative is more reflective of what the CCP wants people to believe rather than the ground reality itself. I honestly don't think the CCP has any genuine intentions of being benevolent towards the Uighurs (or anyone else for that matter). Even if the Chinese economy continues to boom and the center is able to occasionally throw the Uighurs their table scraps it will all eventually come to a head. This is not a matter of if, it's a question of when.

xinjian is part of china now, the uighurs has to compete with chinese in term of skills, and if you read any news about students in china,korea, japan is they are academic driven. if uighurs want better economic opportunity they need to be skill in chinese and academic competitive against han chinese. Most uighurs dont know how to write chinese well, employer is not gonna hire those people.

 

[roma]

No save your tears or laughters. A Chinese has to be loyal to Chinese, Muslim or non Muslim, this is a given. It's none of our business whatever allegiance U as an Indian would bear with, or whatever abhorrence u may have for "atrocities", or your heartfelt support for muslim staff to fast. It's your own call. But for us Chinese we'd stick to our own way!

Communist or non Communist, CCP or whatever party in power, so long as it's competent, it would take the same position towards terrorists, Muslim or non Muslim, and would command loyalty to the country as a basic.

Now if u still have tears for Muslims who're unable to fast, or groan under Chinese oppression, feel free to CRY　ME A RIVER. Again it's your personal choice Chinese won't give a damn.

bcos u are cant {} - toe - knees !
so with those 3 important areas especially the first
who indeed gives a damn :taunt1:

 

[amoy]

bcos u are cant {} - toe - knees !
so with those 3 important areas especially the first
who indeed gives a damn :taunt1:

mam I dont quite get what u mean. anyway, a murder shall not be condoned in the name of "religion", a mullah must comply with laws of the land, a religion has to keep up with times. I'm quite sure Muslims can easily find hadiths in the Koran for all the above points, even including under what circumstances fasting can be waived. in modern days we have another word "professionalism", to get jobs done while in consistency with "guidelines" (Islam in this case).

after so much hurray for the minority rights, it's abt time to raise the voice for the majority, or the mainstream values. No, China is not India, never!

now, do u give a damn?



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[bennedose]

In Pakistan the spread of Wahhabism has led to the ousting of Imams from mosques that are not Wahhabi/ahl-e-hadith - such as Barelvi and Sufi mosques. This has happened in some Indian mosques as well.

For a man to become Imam in China it is likely that he was a politically approved imam - so he may have been toeing the Chinese line. The Saudi-Paki Wahhabis have got him

Congratulations China. Welcome to the club.

 

[amoy]

For a man to become Imam in China it is likely that he was a politically approved imam - so he may have been toeing the Chinese line. The Saudi-Paki Wahhabis have got him

Congratulations China. Welcome to the club.

u know what? actually I agree with the abv statement partly, though yours such as "pilitically approved " can be modified to read "conforming to the mainstream values ". if an mullah spouts jihad on kafirs or what non muslim touches is not halal blah blah then it's very offensive to the MAINSTREAM possibly in infringement of law!

there's nothing new under the sun. when Matteo Ricci came to China there was a tedious debate whether to follow Chinese rituals like of paying tribute to ancestors (e.g. Chinese have a Ching Ming Festival for tomb sweeping). finally Jesuits wore Chinese robes and neutralized"¦ ancient Muslims built their mosque in typical Chinese architecture, outlook of which is just the same as a Buddhist temple. Muslim scholars adopted notions from Tao scriptures to interpret their religion, especially the word "Qing Zhen" (pure and true) visible everywhere incl. the very word for mosque.

what's the problem with being approved by and even integrated with the mainstream? isnt it what most of u NRI trying so hard to achieve?

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[Ray]

Here is the hypocrisy of @amoy.

Imagine the communist China flag in a Mosque with people praying!

I have never seen a country's flag inside a Mosque.

I am sure Amoy has no clue of Islam and that is why he felt that one must gas of Chinese loyalty as an Imam.

(There is) none worthy of worship except Allah. Muhammad is Messenger of ALLAH.

(There is) none worthy of worship except Allah. He is only One. (There is) no partners for Him. For Him (is) the Kingdom. And for Him (is) the Praise. He gives life and accuses death. And He (is) Alive. He will not die, never, ever. Possessor of Majesty and Reverence. In His hand (is) the goodness. And He (is) the goodness. And He (is) on everything powerful.

The Imam, instead of righting the manner in which China rubbished Islam and rode roughshod over Islamic rites, ignored the same and instead was busy praising China and not Allah and his Messenger, Mohammed!

And to amoy, this is a 'respected' Joeso of an Imam!

 

[Ray]

u know what? actually I agree with the abv statement partly, though yours such as "pilitically approved " can be modified to read "conforming to the mainstream values ". if an mullah spouts jihad on kafirs or what non muslim touches is not halal blah blah then it's very offensive to the MAINSTREAM possibly in infringement of law!

there's nothing new under the sun. when Matteo Ricci came to China there was a tedious debate whether to follow Chinese rituals like of paying tribute to ancestors (e.g. Chinese have a Ching Ming Festival for tomb sweeping). finally Jesuits wore Chinese robes and neutralized"¦ ancient Muslims built their mosque in typical Chinese architecture, outlook of which is just the same as a Buddhist temple. Muslim scholars adopted notions from Tao scriptures to interpret their religion, especially the word "Qing Zhen" (pure and true) visible everywhere incl. the very word for mosque.

what's the problem with being approved by and even integrated with the mainstream? isnt it what most of u NRI trying so hard to achieve?

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Another indication that you don't understand religion, more so, Islam.

Islam requires no assistance to learn or improve from anyone.

Here is what they say

Being a Book describing man and the universe, the Quran contains 'everything'. It declares:

With Him are the keys of the Unseen. None but He knows them. And He knows what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falls but with His Knowledge, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, nothing of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a Manifest Book. (al-An'am, 6.59)

The above clearly indicates that if Muslim scholars adopted notions from Tao scriptures to interpret their religion, then there are blaspheming!

 

[Ray]

xinjian is part of china now, the uighurs has to compete with chinese in term of skills, and if you read any news about students in china,korea, japan is they are academic driven. if uighurs want better economic opportunity they need to be skill in chinese and academic competitive against han chinese. Most uighurs dont know how to write chinese well, employer is not gonna hire those people.

Students from Korea, Japan etc are academic driven and have no issues since they have ONE language.

In China, to get any decent job, one has to know Mandarin and not their local language.

That is how Sinicisation is being achieved.

Isn't it ironical that in Uighurs' land they cannot progress on the strength of their language, but through an alien language called Mandarin?

 

[sydsnyper]

What are you doing, re-writing your national anthem... in a retarded way???

Communist or non Communist, CCP or whatever party in power, so long as it's competent, it would take the same position towards terrorists, Muslim or non Muslim, and would command loyalty to the country as a basic.

Now if u still have tears for Muslims who're unable to fast, or groan under Chinese oppression, feel free to CRY　ME A RIVER. Again it's your personal choice Chinese won't give a damn.

No save your tears or laughters. A Chinese has to be loyal to Chinese, Muslim or non Muslim, this is a given. It's none of our business whatever allegiance U as an Indian would bear with, or whatever abhorrence u may have for "atrocities", or your heartfelt support for muslim staff to fast. It's your own call. But for us Chinese we'd stick to our own way!

Communist or non Communist, CCP or whatever party in power, so long as it's competent, it would take the same position towards terrorists, Muslim or non Muslim, and would command loyalty to the country as a basic.

Now if u still have tears for Muslims who're unable to fast, or groan under Chinese oppression, feel free to CRY　ME A RIVER. Again it's your personal choice Chinese won't give a damn.

 

[Ray]

Nine more killed after week of violence in China's Xinjiang

Fri Aug 1, 2014

Nine more killed after week of violence in China's Xinjiang | Reuters

 

[amoy]

What are you doing, re-writing your national anthem... in a retarded way???

I take this as a compliment. Thank u!

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[sydsnyper]

Not so soon, you forgot to tune it....

I take this as a compliment. Thank u!

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[roma]

mam I dont quite get what u mean. anyway, a murder shall not be condoned in the name of "religion", a mullah must comply with laws of the land, a religion has to keep up with times. I'm quite sure Muslims can easily find hadiths in the Koran for all the above points, even including under what circumstances fasting can be waived. in modern days we have another word "professionalism", to get jobs done while in consistency with "guidelines" (Islam in this case).

after so much hurray for the minority rights, it's abt time to raise the voice for the majority, or the mainstream values. No, China is not India, never!

now, do u give a damn? Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2

that was a Good reply .....
...... don't bother about the joke ....it's a silly one of no consequence which we often do on this forum "¦.you'll see it here and there if you haven't already "¦it's a sign that you're a friend .

but what you wrote was logical and for once i am beginning to agree with some of you posters form China or should i say CCP ? not sure which to use ... .
Certainly i do not agree with murder of non-religious Chinese people ...that was not the way for Uyghurs to make a case for themselves ...however there has been serious provocations from the state and instead of getting better , well, it's actually getting worse and really a lot worse, and a lot more blatantly obvious as well

IN the past you used to discriminate against them surreptitiously eg :-

(1) you loaded their drinking water with chemicals to lower the potency and ability to have more children to control their population numbers "¦this doesn't happen in India as Muslim and Hindus Christians in the cities where the populations are large ) live together and drink the same water

(2) you conduct the nuclear tests in their area and you cleverly conducted atmospheric tests "¦"¦the Uyghurs have been suffering from the effects of radiation , "¦not so in India firstly all nuclear tests including the very first were underground and no "cleverly " engineered atmospheric fall-out effect to injure the minorities .

(3) you gave their women jobs in other areas of china so they could not
meet their own men and marry and procreate , "¦..isolated the men from the women and also you broke up the unity of their society . Doesn not happen in inda the "¦.. Qaumi Muslimat ( Muslim Women's Associations ) will scream to heaven if there were any such thing in India "¦.and by the way India allows such caretaker organizations which actually have legal teeth - no so in China .

(4) you restricted the jobs for their women to morally questionable jobs eg nite club dancer etc to lower their self esteem "¦in Inda , no way Jose ! There are Muslim women lawyers, accountants , engineers doctors, actresses etc etc "¦not so in china

( 5) their men found it and still today find it hard to get any jobs even at construction sites - its' only largely for Hans - the unemployment rate among Uyghur men is horrifically high - so they can't raise families and you cleverly restrict their population growth in that way. Indian Muslim are even high-ranking officers in the military and I don't mean post master general - they have access to all sensitive information regarding state security .

(6) culturally Uyghurs in china cant get education in their own language "¦again in India the language associated with Muslim culture is Urdu and is it alive and thriving in India .

(7) Uyghurs in china are not avowed to travel abroad to get education of jobs in neighbouring Turkic countries or European Turkish nations for employment or even cultural connections ..in India any Muslim person can get a passport and go wherever they want restricted only by the nation issuing the visa not by the India government in any way. In fact Government of India heavily subsidises the Hajj pilgrimage of Muslim persons

All this and more you have done up to now and the Uyghurs have been greatly suffering in China

In addition to all that nowadays you are also :-
(8) Not allowing them to fast at Ramadan which is a direct infringement of their religious practice . Muslims in India are absolutely free to fast to their heart's content .
(9) Secondly in China when Uyghurs pray at the mosque they are asked to face some China city and not Mecca which is the standard religious practice for Muslims all over the world . Absolutely not so in India - Muslim persons can face whatever direction they like .

So there you are - you persecute them - drive them to the wall and then into the wall and you expect them to remain silent about it ? They have for decades and now they are saying that their silence has got them nothing in exchange"¦. . Except even worse persecution

You are absolutely correct that China is not India - the points I made make it quite obvious - the huge difference between China and India .

As for the fact that you and your system don't give a damn about them - that is also pretty obvious - isn't it ?

 

[Ray]

IN the past you used to discriminate against them surreptitiously eg :-

(1) you loaded their drinking water with chemicals to lower the potency and ability to have more children to control their population numbers "¦this doesn't happen in India as Muslim and Hindus Christians in the cities where the populations are large ) live together and drink the same water

(2) you conduct the nuclear tests in their area and you cleverly conducted atmospheric tests "¦"¦the Uyghurs have been suffering from the effects of radiation , "¦not so in India firstly all nuclear tests including the very first were underground and no "cleverly " engineered atmospheric fall-out effect to injure the minorities .

(3) you gave their women jobs in other areas of china so they could not
meet their own men and marry and procreate , "¦..isolated the men from the women and also you broke up the unity of their society . Doesn not happen in inda the "¦.. Qaumi Muslimat ( Muslim Women's Associations ) will scream to heaven if there were any such thing in India "¦.and by the way India allows such caretaker organizations which actually have legal teeth - no so in China .

(4) you restricted the jobs for their women to morally questionable jobs eg nite club dancer etc to lower their self esteem "¦in Inda , no way Jose ! There are Muslim women lawyers, accountants , engineers doctors, actresses etc etc "¦not so in china

( 5) their men found it and still today find it hard to get any jobs even at construction sites - its' only largely for Hans - the unemployment rate among Uyghur men is horrifically high - so they can't raise families and you cleverly restrict their population growth in that way. Indian Muslim are even high-ranking officers in the military and I don't mean post master general - they have access to all sensitive information regarding state security .

(6) culturally Uyghurs in china cant get education in their own language "¦again in India the language associated with Muslim culture is Urdu and is it alive and thriving in India .

(7) Uyghurs in china are not avowed to travel abroad to get education of jobs in neighbouring Turkic countries or European Turkish nations for employment or even cultural connections ..in India any Muslim person can get a passport and go wherever they want restricted only by the nation issuing the visa not by the India government in any way. In fact Government of India heavily subsidises the Hajj pilgrimage of Muslim persons

All this and more you have done up to now and the Uyghurs have been greatly suffering in China

In addition to all that nowadays you are also :-
(8) Not allowing them to fast at Ramadan which is a direct infringement of their religious practice . Muslims in India are absolutely free to fast to their heart's content .
(9) Secondly in China when Uyghurs pray at the mosque they are asked to face some China city and not Mecca which is the standard religious practice for Muslims all over the world . Absolutely not so in India - Muslim persons can face whatever direction they like .

So there you are - you persecute them - drive them to the wall and then into the wall and you expect them to remain silent about it ? They have for decades and now they are saying that their silence has got them nothing in exchange"¦. . Except even worse persecution

You are absolutely correct that China is not India - the points I made make it quite obvious - the huge difference between China and India .

As for the fact that you and your system don't give a damn about them - that is also pretty obvious - isn't it ?

Thanks.

I did not know how inhuman these Han can be.

Shocking!

It show that the Han are real tuchkus.

 

[bennedose]

what's the problem with being approved by and even integrated with the mainstream? isnt it what most of u NRI trying so hard to achieve?

Whoa! No need to go on the defensive and start turning your attention away from the topic and towards India. Let me simply stick to facts.

If the imam was government approved, his killing immediately poses a challenge to the government. They have to appoint another imam who is both loyal and has a following among people.

Since you seem to know the history of Islam in China I would ask you to look at the methods used by Islamists to disrupt and keep the pot boiling. Oh of course I am sure China can handle them. But their presence gives a convenient handle for outside powers (such as India) to tickle China's backside in return for the Chinese love we get via Pakistan. Pakistanis seem to use sandpaper tongues while licking Chinese backsides. We could provide the sand.

 

[Ripples]

Oh noh, That is atrocity against minorities of china. Things are getting bad to worse on daily basis. I think China should allot then a separate nation where these poor guys can live in peace. @ All chinese

 

[ITBP]

I found Chinese Muslims to be most patriotic to their own non-Muslim country.

For example chinese Muslims use Chinese name, and Indian Muslims use Arab name.

One should not forget Kansu braves during Boxer rebellion.

Indeed Chinese rule over Xinjiang area is under dispute, Chinese never had effective control over Xinjian area. I personally like this part to stay in China. May be chinese can give more self-rule. And SPREAD EDUCATION.

And educated man is most likely to follow humanity in religious matters.

 

[amoy]

Whoa! No need to go on the defensive and start turning your attention away from the topic and towards India. Let me simply stick to facts.

If the imam was government approved, his killing immediately poses a challenge to the government. They have to appoint another imam who is both loyal and has a following among people.

Since you seem to know the history of Islam in China I would ask you to look at the methods used by Islamists to disrupt and keep the pot boiling. Oh of course I am sure China can handle them. But their presence gives a convenient handle for outside powers (such as India) to tickle China's backside in return for the Chinese love we get via Pakistan. Pakistanis seem to use sandpaper tongues while licking Chinese backsides. We could provide the sand.

no dont take that as diverting attention to India. when so many Indian posters r exited abt mishaps in China I as a Chinese in turn also did a bit probe into India so as to have a little understanding of Indian psyche. the NRI example I gave is for u to reflect on the necessity and upside of getting approved and integrated with the mainstream and generally superior cultures. in this regard many of NRI Indians have done pretty well ascending to CEOs in top notched companies in advanced countries thanks to their adaptability.

also I appreciate your sandpaper metaphor, indeed candid. understandably being in an enemy state Indians tend to observe Muslim unrests in cool amusement. that mood of course doesnt hinder u from doing an objective assessment of the situation.

ooops @roma your looong write-up would qualify u as an excellent advocate for Muslim rights. does the plight of Muslims that u described make u cry your heart out?

look at your accusations - passports not allowed for Uyghur men blah blah - mam did u check how many go to al Azahar in Cairo to study? how large the Uyghur community is in Turkey? unable to travel abroad? haha then how did some of them end up in Guantanamo re-education camp, then getting relocated to Albania?

do yr homework before launching WMDs!

I don't wanna bust your bubbles one by one but do proofread your own jokes yourself - Indian govmt subsidizing muslims heavily on Hajj pilgrimage! do u hint Chinese ought to follow suit? then what abt those who travel to Lumbini or Vatican on pilgrimage? r they entitled to the same subsidy? isnt what u boasted of India ridiculous or just your black humour?

bye for now.

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