If India offers help to Pakistan: Pak finally accepts offer of aid from India

[ejazr]

Simon Tisdall is the assistant editor and co-author of this article. Note that the statement of Indian aid are from the London high Commission, not New Delhi. A corespondent only provides inputs from his country or region.

Simon Tisdall other recent article was India's blinkered policy on Kashmir
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/11/india-pakistan-kashmir-policy

 

[nitesh]

It is hurting Pakistanis H&D that India is not giving them the money which they will use for terrorism against India. Rather then letting them getting money there should be a campaign to highlight the terrorism caused by them so that more people get motivated for not giving them money. It should be highlighted that the aid money will eventually be used for terrorism against them. Also direct people to help towards victims in leh.

 

[Singh]

India is under no moral obligation to help in any sort of resources this time.

Oh, India is under tremendous moral obligation to help Pakistan.

We are the regional hegemon and also one of the most powerful countries economically and militarily. We wish to be a permanent member of security council and also a developed superpower for we believe we are harbingers of peace and stability to the world. As a regional power soon to be a global power it is our responsibility to help the world and especially our next door neighbour and people (who 6 decades back were part of our own lands).

Our foreign policy has traditionally been based on morality over strategic interests. India was instrumental in starting NAM and SAARC to bring peace to the world and neighbourhood.
We also were one of the first and largest relief providers during the tsunami disaster, also carried out our largest overseas air relief operation during Chengdu earthquake in China. We have been instrumental in helping countries in our neighbourhood in times of crisis.

Disasters are again opportunities for decidedly hostile nations to shed historical baggage and come to aid of each other. (Turkey-Greece; US-Russia) IMO Govt of India is not helping out Pakistan because the govt expects to be rebuffed, but what about the people and NGOs ? This is an unhealthy trend for India and Indians, our culture, history tells us to be better than that and the people affected our neighbours, and co-inhabitants of our subcontinent.

 

[Singh]

It is hurting Pakistanis H&D that India is not giving them the money which they will use for terrorism against India. Rather then letting them getting money there should be a campaign to highlight the terrorism caused by them so that more people get motivated for not giving them money. It should be highlighted that the aid money will eventually be used for terrorism against them. Also direct people to help towards victims in leh.

Indians not helping Pakistanis reflects poorly upon Indians not Pakistanis (for a detailed why see my earlier post), we have helped all our neighbours in the past including Pakistan why not know when we are stronger, richer than before and Pakistan suffering from the most debilitating floods in history ?

Business dailies are carrying frontpage stories of India's export of cheap sugar and other agricultural commodities to Pakistan. They can also be used to feed terrorists or the money generated to feed terrorists ? What about companies like Toyota, Pepsi, Coke, Honda which also have operations in Pakistan, the tax they pay can also be used to fund terrorism ? What about billions of dollars of military and financial aid from Saudis and US to Pakistan, where does that go ?

Pakistan is under a tremendous calamity which the incompetent Pakistani state has no hope of coping alone, Responsible powerful nations will step in that is what they are supposed to do. Even India pre-90s was regularly hit by calamities and we had to rely upon Western aid to cope, mind you we were "enemies" of the west at the time and a global headache with our nukes, Soviet tilt and NAM.

 

[johnee]

Humanitarian considerations are above narrow politics. Having said that, one cannot ignore the politics for it determines most things in life. India owing to moral considerations must send medicines, blankets, tents, and even cash. But what will it lead to? All the items sent by India will be routed through PA and its associated jihadi outfits. These organisations use international aid(including Indian aid) to help the victims. But in the process, they portray themselves as the saviours and use the oppurtunity to recruit more and more hapless and emotionally vulnerable victims into the jihadi network. Of course, one of the prime targets of Pakistan backed jihadi network is India.

So, the best thing for India to do in such occassions is to merely express sympathy but to give nothing. Not even medicines or clothes. With lesser international aid, the victims will question the rulers of Pakistan who happen to be pouring billions of dollars in pursuing proxy-war against India. Atleast, in such occasions there would be some valid criticism of the workings of Pakistani rulers(PA).

As for, India's claim of regional power being hurt if Pakistan is not helped. I think this argument is bogus. The world knows that Pakistan is for all purposes a terrorist haven. And India is the principal victim. So, India's proclamations to being a regional hegemon are seriously hurt when India does not punish Pakistan for waging a proxy-war against India. Instead, if India rewards Pakistan by donating aids, then it will only undermine India further in terms of international standing.

If India does help, then it will be setting a precedent. The next time such disasters happen in Pakistan, the rulers of Pakistan will DEMAND help from India as if they are entitled to it.

 

[nitesh]

Indians not helping Pakistanis reflects poorly upon Indians not Pakistanis (for a detailed why see my earlier post), we have helped all our neighbours in the past including Pakistan why not know when we are stronger, richer than before and Pakistan suffering from the most debilitating floods in history ?

Business dailies are carrying frontpage stories of India's export of cheap sugar and other agricultural commodities to Pakistan. They can also be used to feed terrorists or the money generated to feed terrorists ? What about companies like Toyota, Pepsi, Coke, Honda which also have operations in Pakistan, the tax they pay can also be used to fund terrorism ? What about billions of dollars of military and financial aid from Saudis and US to Pakistan, where does that go ?

Pakistan is under a tremendous calamity which the incompetent Pakistani state has no hope of coping alone, Responsible powerful nations will step in that is what they are supposed to do. Even India pre-90s was regularly hit by calamities and we had to rely upon Western aid to cope, mind you we were "enemies" of the west at the time and a global headache with our nukes, Soviet tilt and NAM.

Singh sahab you are getting over bored with you arguments . There is a sound reason of not providing the help. Pakistanis want help but without Indians what's the logic? Link. And why Pakistanis are blaming us for there ills You can see the thread on pakistani floods and in the very first post they are blaming the dam waters for the floods. So they are using this floods as an opportunity to stir anti India propaganda. You are missing my point completely, I am trying to say we should do the best in our capacity to stop the money flowing to them which will be used against us. When we know that they want our help without letting any one know, as it hurts there h&D then let them die in hell

 

[SATISH]

Right now we have our own problems to take care of. Why should we help and pour relief materials to other countries when we have a situation in Leh, Punjab and the NE part of the country? Pakistanis have their own lobby all over the world and let them get money from there. Right now we must make sure that the villages and towns in leh are rebuilt as fast as possible and a proper supply chain to be established in Punjab and Himachal. I am totally against any kind of aid to Pakistan right now. Perhaps the next time we can help. We seriously need a revamp of the disaster management department in India.

 

[tarunraju]

We won't get any credit. Last time we provided a huge stash of relief materials to earthquake victims, they just peeled the labels and distributed them, and maintained no public record of our aid.

I know, credit shouldn't matter, righteousness should, but then what is to say that we haven't already offered to help?

Oh, India is under tremendous moral obligation to help Pakistan.

We aren't. If we're morally obliged to 'help' Pakistan, we would carry the same obligations to favour Pakistan in a lot of other things, including settling border disputes in their favour.

I expect that line to be used by Pakistani diplomats once they realise they didn't end up with enough aid from the so called "friends of Pakistan".

 

[Jaz-u.k]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

 

[A.V.]

just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame

Let the Rats Stay At home Away from wheat bags stationed outside in the monsoon.

Welcome to DFI introduce yourself in members intro and take a tour before you post such rubbish again because Religious intolerance and remarks is the last thing on this forum

 

[EagleOne]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

the same politicans helped pakistan when it was hited by earthquake religion doesnt matter here and at the same time we have more people who dont have food ...

 

[Singh]

Singh sahab you are getting over bored with you arguments .

I thought I wasn't boring ? :happy_2:

There is a sound reason of not providing the help. Pakistanis want help but without Indians what's the logic? Link. And why Pakistanis are blaming us for there ills You can see the thread on pakistani floods and in the very first post they are blaming the dam waters for the floods. So they are using this floods as an opportunity to stir anti India propaganda. You are missing my point completely, I am trying to say we should do the best in our capacity to stop the money flowing to them which will be used against us. When we know that they want our help without letting any one know, as it hurts there h&D then let them die in hell

We are not providing aid because we had a bad experience last time, by this logic we ought not to be talking to them because last time we had a bad experience but since we are, this follows that our position wrt aid is untenable.

The government is talking to Pakistan and willing to go half way but is not willing to help Pakistan in times of calamity ? And now there is a civilian govt in Pakistan !

India wants to be a responsible superpower and a stabilising factor in the world but its poor quasi failed neighbour is suffering a massive natural disaster and we don't offer to help them ?

US is currently our new BFF and yet it is the biggest benefactor of Pakistan in terms of military and aid. Why don't we sever relations with US if US continues to give money to Pakistan ?

China is our largest trading partner and we also gave aid to China, the same nation that is oppressing thousands of its people (Tibetans included), gave nukes to Pak and is goading Pakistan to fight against us ?

Right now we have our own problems to take care of. Why should we help and pour relief materials to other countries when we have a situation in Leh, Punjab and the NE part of the country? Pakistanis have their own lobby all over the world and let them get money from there. Right now we must make sure that the villages and towns in leh are rebuilt as fast as possible and a proper supply chain to be established in Punjab and Himachal. I am totally against any kind of aid to Pakistan right now. Perhaps the next time we can help. We seriously need a revamp of the disaster management department in India.

None of these problems are insurmountable, Pakistan is suffering a calamity which it can't cope with internally. GoI is not expected to cease everything and help Pakistan but to give aid for we are a responsible well meaning neighbour. (SAARC hello?)

This logic is the same espoused by those against the ISRO missions and armed forces modernisation because millions in India are starving.

We won't get any credit. Last time we provided a huge stash of relief materials to earthquake victims, they just peeled the labels and distributed them, and maintained no public record of our aid.

I know, credit shouldn't matter, righteousness should, but then what is to say that we haven't already offered to help?

No Press Release from the govt. Our whole foreign policy and even our independence movement was borne of righteousness. Ideally helping a neighbour in distress should be a no-brainer, but since we have Pakistan as a neighbour we should from a strategic PoV give token aid to reiterate our faith in their civilian govt, for any future success in talks, and to show that inspite of what Pakistan has done we are a magnanimous power and an ideal counterweight to China.

We aren't. If we're morally obliged to 'help' Pakistan, we would carry the same obligations to favour Pakistan in a lot of other things, including settling border disputes in their favour.

Actually no. Since we are a superior power it means border disputes ought to be settled in our favour but we have actually acquiesced to LoC being converted to an IB so..

I expect that line to be used by Pakistani diplomats once they realise they didn't end up with enough aid from the so called "friends of Pakistan".

That is their prerogative, if they believe in petty point scoring good for them.

 

[ajtr]

Its not the question if india offers help to pakistan. one must ask if that help will ever reach the needy people.Thats why there is cold response from the countries this time.Btw when pakistan was going under water then zardari was enjoying in europe and pakistani PM was enjoying dinned with Adnan Sami.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ner-with-Pakistani-PM/articleshow/6269408.cms

Even then enormity of situation didnt hit upon Gilani saheb..now he want to have lunch with lata tai.


http://www.buzzintown.com/mumbai/ar...s-biggest-fan/ref--home-article/id--1912.html

 

[Singh]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

Its not a matter of Hindu-Muslim, its a matter of India-Pakistan. I would be surprised an educated Indian would hold such a retarded view ! (my apologies, if you are uneducated, not an Indian and/or are retarded)

Basically the Pakistani themselves and the world have not come to the stricken people's aid this time, the reasons are aplenty from loss of confidence, bad experiences in 2005 earthquake relief, not enough information, Govt apathy (President of Pakistan himself is busy chilling at his French Chateau) etc.

In addition to those numerous reasons the GoI has had bad experience previously our offer to help Pakistan during 2005 earthquake was rebuffed, anger with Pakistan for its inaction over terrorism, suspicion the aid will be misappropriated, unfavourable public opinion, other pressing issues etc.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

oh yes hindus are the kafirs after all. keep your hatred limited to yourself, DFI does not entertain it.

 

[hit&run]

There is no need to help Pakistan. Aid we provided last time was not accepted by military establishment. There was no improvement in diplomatic relationship between two nations after that aid offer. This is what happen with rest of the nations when they extend their hand for help. Pakistan is thankless nation and is glued together on only one notion 'hate for India'.

Burden of moral obligation is not on India to help but on Pakistan to introspect why India is not helping. At least they should debate about this that things would have been better if India was a good friend. But they are still abusing us for being responsible for their flood when maps are showing that rivers heavily controlled by India (cheenab) has not done damage as compared to River Indus.

There is no need for India to be Chodhry without invitation.

Adding: I was watching a video recently where foreign media was suggesting to Pakistani politicians and ex army person that Pakistan military's double play and misuse of aid has made many donating nations apprehensive this time. If Pakistanis have guts then they should dare to ask their military saviours why the nations are not helping them like they did during earthquake. The reason for Pakistan's misery is its ISI and military establishment no one else.

 

[Iamanidiot]

I thought I wasn't boring ? :happy_2:



We are not providing aid because we had a bad experience last time, by this logic we ought not to be talking to them because last time we had a bad experience but since we are, this follows that our position wrt aid is untenable.

The government is talking to Pakistan and willing to go half way but is not willing to help Pakistan in times of calamity ? And now there is a civilian govt in Pakistan !

India wants to be a responsible superpower and a stabilising factor in the world but its poor quasi failed neighbour is suffering a massive natural disaster and we don't offer to help them ?

US is currently our new BFF and yet it is the biggest benefactor of Pakistan in terms of military and aid. Why don't we sever relations with US if US continues to give money to Pakistan ?

China is our largest trading partner and we also gave aid to China, the same nation that is oppressing thousands of its people (Tibetans included), gave nukes to Pak and is goading Pakistan to fight against us ?



None of these problems are insurmountable, Pakistan is suffering a calamity which it can't cope with internally. GoI is not expected to cease everything and help Pakistan but to give aid for we are a responsible well meaning neighbour. (SAARC hello?)

This logic is the same espoused by those against the ISRO missions and armed forces modernisation because millions in India are starving.



No Press Release from the govt. Our whole foreign policy and even our independence movement was borne of righteousness. Ideally helping a neighbour in distress should be a no-brainer, but since we have Pakistan as a neighbour we should from a strategic PoV give token aid to reiterate our faith in their civilian govt, for any future success in talks, and to show that inspite of what Pakistan has done we are a magnanimous power and an ideal counterweight to China.



Actually no. Since we are a superior power it means border disputes ought to be settled in our favour but we have actually acquiesced to LoC being converted to an IB so..



That is their prerogative, if they believe in petty point scoring good for them.

Sir statesmenship is not to the need of the hour.its hardnosedness thats the need of the hour.The floods will acelerate the collapse of the current set-up.Sir,I don't understand your obsession wiith a civilian set-up which is impotent and has a couple of baboons at the helm.The were not even able to bring the perpetuators of 26/11 to justice.

The pakistani set-up has a feel india is soft lets not reinforce the belief now.Indias silence drive the point much better than giving them aid

 

[SHASH2K2]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

Who the hell you are to teach us what we should and shouldn't do? Where were you sleeping when Pakistani Dogs were killing innocent people in India. Pakistani keeps on exporting terror to India and expect us to send them relief when they face natural disaster . I am sure you are a Pakistani pretending to be an Indian and if you are an Indian you should be the first one to be killed by those Pakistani terrorists. Then your loved one will be supporting us . They will all shout KILL Pakistanis and kill Talibanis.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

one thing i dont get is why is everyone running after recognition here, fine pakistanis might not give the recognition where it is due and if they dont then it is upto them and their problem, but does that take away the fact that this is a massive humanitarian crisis, and as humans (if that is what we like to call ourselves) our first duty is to support them is which ever small way we can. no one is suggesting to dole out money, certainly not, but whats the harm in handing out a few precious life saving medicines, a tent house which could work as a mean of shelter, some food which could help a few starving souls, some clean water?

recognition amounts to looking for gains which does amount to politics in a way, probably this is not the right time to look for such gains, its people just like you and i who are suffering.

 

[ajtr]

Its shame for india for not helping Pakistan in these hard times. According to a government estimate obtained by The Associated Press, 17.8 million metric tons of wheat are exposed to the elements -- stored outdoors, under tarps in India's pounding monsoon rains. Supreme court suggested FCI to give it away to poor rather than spoiling it, so why can`t india help ???? its just bcoz majority of top politicians are hindus and they don`t wanna help muslims ......i m an indian ,but its a matter of shame ...

Its better to feed rats than pakistanis with that extra grains atleast rats dont send terrorists to india like pakistanis do.Hell there is main export is international terrorism(IT)