If I Speak Out, 'They Will Kill Me'

[maomao]

Truth about Pakistani Society!!

On Feb. 5, 2010, a bomb exploded in Karachi, killing members of a Shiite Muslim religious procession. Extremists often target Shiites, a minority in Pakistan. Ambulances rushed survivors to the Jinnah Postgraduate Medical Center, and the victims' families followed. Many were outside the entrance to this hospital when a second bomb exploded there.

The carnage changed the life of Bisharat Rehmat, who had nothing to do with the Shiite procession. His daughter was giving birth to a baby that day, and he was inside the hospital visiting the mother and newborn child. His relatives, however, were on the hospital grounds. The bomb killed six of them, including Mr. Rehmat's wife and 7-year-old daughter.


Mr. Rehmat, like his family, is Christian. I visited him earlier this month while many Pakistanis were thinking about intolerance and religious minorities—though not talking much about them. People spoke carefully after a judge ordered the death sentence for a bodyguard who murdered his charge, Salman Taseer, governor of the vast province of Punjab.

Read Full Article:

Steve Inskeep: If I Speak Out, 'They Will Kill Me' - WSJ.com

P.S: I knew Lahore was Hindu/Sikh majority like most of the places and it was given to pakistan due to ulterior motives of Nehru-Gandhi; however, I never knew even Krachi was Hindu majority.......How the hell these Islamic pakistanis were able to wipe out such a huge Hindu/Sikh population within days is one mystry....One thing I do know that pakistani authorities i.e. police, military helped Balwais (muslim rioters) to ethnically cleanse Hindu/Sikhs, and when Hindus asked Nehru to protect i.e. only protect the refugees to safely enter India with the assistance of India Army; he blatantly refused to even protect/escort hapless Hindu/Sikh women and children (A true statesmen for Congressies and we want more of such BS in our country in the name of secularism), and on the other hand this devious man threatened Hindus (in particular of Bhagalpur) with Bombardment from IAF on their houses, if they even touch a muslim!!

 

[Galaxy]

Well, Indian Punjab was Muslim majority pre-1947. After 1947, Hindus/Sikhs from Pakistan Punjab came to India and from here (Punjab/haryana) - Muslims went to Pakistan.

Karachi was different case, 2/3rd Hindus decided to live in Pakistan only. Also, whole Sindhe was given to Pakistan and Hindus were living there with many centuries. 25% Hindus came to India in 60's and 70's.

Rest of the Hindus were killed or converted into Islam forcefully in Pakistan.

 

[A chauhan]

A omment from that site:-

Kenneth Perlman replied:

Historically, Islam destroys, kills and ethnically cleanses all others. Yeah, i know that sounds harsh, but its a fact wherever it is and whenever it can. India remains 16% moslem (over 180 million muslims, while Pakistan and Bangladesh are largely "Hindurein". Israel is 21% arab (1.3 million), while "palestine" must be "Judenrein." Bethlehem was 80% Christian, now its under 20% and we may see Christianity extinct there in our lifetimes. Christians have all but been eliminated in Egypt, Iraq and Syria. In Lebanon they are now an oppressed minority. The Taliban destroyed the Bhuddist sculptures and on and on and on.

 

[SPIEZ]

Truth about Pakistani Society!!

On Feb. 5, 2010, a bomb exploded in Karachi, killing members of a Shiite Muslim religious procession. Extremists often target Shiites, a minority in Pakistan. Ambulances rushed survivors to the Jinnah Postgraduate Medical Center, and the victims' families followed. Many were outside the entrance to this hospital when a second bomb exploded there.

The carnage changed the life of Bisharat Rehmat, who had nothing to do with the Shiite procession. His daughter was giving birth to a baby that day, and he was inside the hospital visiting the mother and newborn child. His relatives, however, were on the hospital grounds. The bomb killed six of them, including Mr. Rehmat's wife and 7-year-old daughter.


Mr. Rehmat, like his family, is Christian. I visited him earlier this month while many Pakistanis were thinking about intolerance and religious minorities—though not talking much about them. People spoke carefully after a judge ordered the death sentence for a bodyguard who murdered his charge, Salman Taseer, governor of the vast province of Punjab.

Read Full Article:

Steve Inskeep: If I Speak Out, 'They Will Kill Me' - WSJ.com

P.S: I knew Lahore was Hindu/Sikh majority like most of the places and it was given to pakistan due to ulterior motives of Nehru-Gandhi; however, I never knew even Krachi was Hindu majority.......How the hell these Islamic pakistanis were able to wipe out such a huge Hindu/Sikh population within days is one mystry....One thing I do know that pakistani authorities i.e. police, military helped Balwais (muslim rioters) to ethnically cleanse Hindu/Sikhs, and when Hindus asked Nehru to protect i.e. only protect the refugees to safely enter India with the assistance of India Army; he blatantly refused to even protect/escort hapless Hindu/Sikh women and children (A true statesmen for Congressies and we want more and such BS in our country in the name of secularism), and on the other hand this devious man threatened Hindus (in particular of Bhagalpur) with Bombardment from IAF on their houses, if they even touch a muslim!!

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

No hate speeches ( according to DIG"G")

 

[maomao]

Well, Indian Punjab was Muslim majority pre-1947. After 1947, Hindus/Sikhs from Pakistan Punjab came to India and from here (Punjab/haryana) - Muslims went to Pakistan.

Karachi was different case, 2/3rd Hindus decided to live in Pakistan only. Also, whole Sindhe was given to Pakistan and Hindus were living there with many centuries. 25% Hindus came to India in 60's and 70's.



Rest of the Hindus were killed or converted into Islam forcefully in Pakistan.

No, India Punjab was not Muslim majority - lets see......Himachal was overwhelming Hindu majority, Haryana was Hindu Majority with good Sikh population which is present even today......and in Indian side of Punjab (i.e Todays Punjab) - only few districts had muslim majority i.e Gurdaspur, Malekotla and few other pockets .....Malerkotla is still mulsim majority!!

 

[Galaxy]

No, India Punjab was not Muslim majority - lets see......Himachal was overwhelming Hindu majority, Haryana was Hindu Majority with good Sikh population which is present even today......and in Indian side of Punjab (i.e Todays Punjab) - only few districts had muslim majority i.e Gurdaspur, Malekotla and few other pockets .....Malerkotla is still mulsim majority!!

http://paa2004.princeton.edu/download.asp?submissionId=41274

Check Page No. 12

Haryana, Himachal pradesh were Hindu Majority.

Today's Indian Punjab - Muslim were (50%) - 50% were divided between Hindus/Sikhs.

In Pakistan Punjab - 2/3rd were Muslims and 1/3rd Hindus/Sikhs.
But you have to remember that Indian Punjab was punjab + Haryana + H.P. before 1947.

Most of the 1/3rd Hindus/Sikhs of Pak Punjab came to India and 90% Muslims went to Pakistan after 47.

Although we could have got more land, But difficult to say it was wrong or not.

==========

BUT, India should have got some parts of Sindhe - before 1947, Hindus were 40%-50%, Still Nehru-Gandhi gave complete Sindhe to Pakistan.

 

[Galaxy]

But Kutch (Gujarat) was very close to Sindh pre-1947. (I don't know it was part or not)

Kutchi is supposed to be much more closely related to Sindhi than it is Gujarati. Kutch remained with India.

 

[maomao]

http://paa2004.princeton.edu/download.asp?submissionId=41274

Check Page No. 12

Haryana, Himachal pradesh were Hindu Majority.

Today's Indian Punjab - Muslim were (50%) - 50% were divided between Hindus/Sikhs.

In Pakistan Punjab - 2/3rd were Muslims and 1/3rd Hindus/Sikhs.
But you have to remember that Indian Punjab was punjab + Haryana + H.P. before 1947.

Most of the 1/3rd Hindus/Sikhs of Pak Punjab came to India and 90% Muslims went to Pakistan after 47.

Although we could have got more land, But difficult to say it was wrong or not.

==========

BUT, India should have got some parts of Sindhe - before 1947, Hindus were 40%-50%, Still Nehru-Gandhi gave complete Sindhe to Pakistan.

Brother, I am unable to understand what your are trying to convey - earlier you had written Indian Punjab was Muslim majority and now you have repeated what I had said!! The bottom line is Indian side of Punjab be it all the three state put together or taken individually was never muslim majority, before 1930s and even latter there was hardly anything differentiating Sikhs from Hindus (except few practices).....Half of our family members were Sikhs and Half Hindus, there was almost no division...these divisions were created latter on the pretext of corrupt practices of Mahants, we all know how honest all religious leaders are today in Punjab and how they kill each other to reign supreme!


And yes I agree that too much was given to failed state pakistan on both West and the Eastern side of our country due to Gandhis love for minorities and Nehru's connivance and self-contentedness, and in return it was common people like us who suffered for the selfishness and ruthlessness of Nehru Gandhis, I still don't know when will Indians realize how dangerous these clans are for the nation, they are too secretive with their activities and loyalties!

 

[Galaxy]

Brother, I am unable to understand what your are trying to convey - earlier you had written Indian Punjab was Muslim majority and now you have repeated what I had said!! The bottom line is Indian side of Punjab be it all the three state put together or taken individually was never muslim majority, before 1930s and more so till 50s there was hardly anything differentiating Sikhs from Hindus.....Half of our families were Sikhs and Half Hindus...these divisions were created latter on the pretext of corrupt practices of Mahants, we all know how honest all religious leaders are!

Yes, same thing.

Indian Punjab was Muslim Majority (50%) (50% - Hindus/Sikhs)
Pakistan Punjab was Muslim Majority (2/3rd) - (30%-35% - Hindus/Sikhs)
Haryana + H.P. were Hindu Majority (75%), 5%-10% Sikhs

Muslims left Haryana, H.P. (15%-20%) and went to Pakistan Punjab.
Muslims left Indian Punjab (half of the state) and went to Pakistan Punjab.
Hindus/Sikhs (30%+) replaced Muslims of Punjab/Haryana/H.P.

IMHO it was fair deal as H.P., Haryana, 1/3rd of Punjab remained with India.

If you only see Punjab pre 1947 (not Haryana/H.P.), Muslims were 2/3rd and 1/3rd were Hindus/Sikhs. Pakistan got 2/3rd land and we got 1/3rd.

Earlier I said about Indian Punjab and not included H.P. and Haryana.

 

[maomao]

Yes, same thing.

Indian Punjab was Muslim Majority (50%) (50% - Hindus/Sikhs)
Pakistan Punjab was Muslim Majority (2/3rd) - (30%-35% - Hindus/Sikhs)
Haryana + H.P. were Hindu Majority (80%)

Muslims left Haryana, H.P. (20%) and went to Pakistan Punjab.
Muslims left Indian Punjab (half of the state) and went to Pakistan Punjab.
Hindus/Sikhs (30%+) replaced Muslims of Punjab/Haryana/H.P.

IMHO it was fair deal as H.P., Haryana, 1/3rd of Punjab remained with India.

If you only see Punjab pre 1947 (not Haryana/H.P.), Muslims were 2/3rd and 1/3rd were Hindus/Sikhs. Pakistan got 2/3rd land and we got 1/3rd.

Earlier I said about Indian Punjab and not included H.P. and Haryana.

Fair deal - I doubt!

Punjabi muslims at time were the most liberal and enterprising in nature, and everyone used to visit same shrines together i.e Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in punjab, it wasn't punjabi or sindhi muslims who louded the need for pakistan it was muslims from UP, Bihar and other Indian states who shouted the loudest and sent their leaguers to border areas to incite violence against Hindus/Sikhs in the name of Islam. Who lost their homes and peace for ever? The Punjabis and Sindhis - and not people like Agha Khan, Syed Ahemed etc, their muslim league following families (in thousands if not millions) are still present in India supporting/joining parties you know_____.....It's we who lost everything not these buffoons who are still celebrated in India under the charade of this sham secularism!!

 

[Galaxy]

Fair deal - I doubt!

Punjabi muslims at time were the most liberal and enterprising in nature, and everyone used to visit same shrines together i.e Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in punjab, it wasn't punjabi or sindhi muslims who louded the need for pakistan it was muslims from UP, Bihar and other Indian states who shouted the loudest. Who lost their homes and peace for every? The Punjabis and Sindhis - and not people like Agha Khan, Syed Ahemed etc, where their muslim league following families (in thousands if not millions) are still present in India supporting/joining parties you know_____.....It's we who lost everything not these buffoons who are still celebrated in India!!

Well maomao, I am sure you are aware of my opinion.

But in this case, I think Punjab partition was fair deal. May be we would got some more land, But still that is ok.

IMO, biggest disaster was Sindh, whole Sindh was given to Pakistan. I have few Sindhi friends whose grand-parents came from Pakistan and i came to know many thing. But what can we say/do now ?? If we will blame Gandhi and Nehru - People will call us communal and RSS terrorist.

Do you know why Nathuram godse Killed Gandhi ? because he gave all Sindh to Pakistan. He said in court trial that till Indus river of Sindhe, It should be part of India. I can't suffer this loss, so I killed Gandhi ji.

Also, Since 1/3rd of Muslims decided to remain in India. Pakistan should have not got more than half of Sindh.

Actually, Jinnah said to make Pakistan a secular state same like India. So, Many Hindus remained in Pakistan and Many Muslims remain in India. But Pakistan become Islamic terrorist country, Hence Hindus were Killed/Converted into Islam/ forced to leave Pakistan. Ultimately, we suffered loss in long run. But One day, We will take back Giligt-Balistan and few districts of Sindh. :thumb:

 

[pankaj nema]

Congress was adamant only on the partition of Punjab and Bengal So that India could get some territory of these two provinces

And I doubt whether we could have influenced the British any further than what we did in case of Gurdaspur and Assam .

SO getting any part of Sindh is simply ruled out

 

[A chauhan]

... But One day, We will take back Giligt-Balistan and few districts of Sindh. :thumb:

Not only Gilgit-Balistan but much more... we should pay attention to plight of Kashmiri Pandits , if we can't save and rehabilitate them in J&K then how will we save whole India, this pseudo-secular Congress is just a corrupt Chaploos for vote bank. Lets say no more Congress in the center, lets try BJP for at least 10 years...

Everyone blamed Modi for riots in Gujrat but what about riots in J&K...

 

[pankaj nema]

The basic principle of partition was Pakistan getting the Muslim majority provinces and
India keeping the rest

Therefore Punjab ,Bengal ,Assam and Sindh All being Muslim Majority fell into Pakistan's lap automatically

We could only force the issue in the case of Punjab , Bengal and Assam

Maybe Sardar Patel DID not want Sindhi Muslims into Gujarat

 

[Galaxy]

The basic principle of partition was Pakistan getting the Muslim majority provinces and
India keeping the rest

Therefore Punjab ,Bengal ,Assam and Sindh All being Muslim Majority fell into Pakistan's lap automatically

We could only force the issue in the case of Punjab , Bengal and Assam

Maybe Sardar Patel DID not want Sindhi Muslims into Gujarat

Pre-1947, Hindu population was 70% and Muslims were around 26% and 4% others, So we should have got 74% Land. [Kashmir was not part].

But Pakistan + Bangladesh got 1/3rd part. Assam was Hindu majority. Muslims were about 40% when Assam was merged with India in 1947.

Due to Geographical condition, We couldn't have done much. Only possibilities were - We could have taken parts of Sindh and if Nehru accepted Hari Singh proposal little earlier, Whole Kashmir would be part of India today. Nehru acted very late.

 

[maomao]

^^^^ Nehru did not act late....he never acted - it was when failed state pakistanis moved in and Indian army started asserting and pressurizing, Nehru saw the rug being pulled under his feet, hence reluctantly he had to take Patel's advice.....He always wanted Sheikh Abdullah his half brother to be Prime Mintier of Kashmir (it is a well documented fact) and end of Hari Singh/Hindu-Sikh reign over Kashmir! If there could be anyone who could have all the traits of a conniving leprechaun/coward demon - Nehru fits perfectly!

P.S: I still believe partition was not fair and the reasons are many which could not be discussed here on DFI!

 

[Galaxy]

^^^^ Nehru did not act late....he never acted - it was when failed state pakistanis moved in and Indian army started asserting and pressuring, Nehru saw the rug being pulled under his feet hence reluctantly he had to take Patel's advice.....He always wanted Sheikh Abdullah his half brother to be Prime Mintier of Kashmir (it is a well documented fact) and end of Hari Singh/Hindu-Sikh reign over Kashmir! If there could be anyone who could have all the traits of a conniving leprechaun/coward demon - Nehru fits perfectly!

P.S: I still believe partition was not fair and the reasons are many which could not be discussed here on DFI!

I agree. Nehru didn't acted at all. I wrote an article on Nehru's mistake.


Mods/Admin -- Can I start a thread on "Nehru Biggest Mistake" ??

 

[Zebra]

maomao ,

Nehru ka naam le ke kyu mood kharab karte ho bhai .

 

[ejazr]

Ok I'm not sure why an article on extremism within Pakistan is diverted onto a different track.

But for those who are unaware, here are the facts on Punjab demographics that anyone interested in the partition dynamics should read. This is based on the British census data.

And according to the British census data of 1941, Lahore had 61% Muslim which increased to 97% in 1951. Similarly, in districts that became a part of India such as Gurdaspur that had 50.2% muslim, it was reduced to 1.3%.

Please read pg 12 carefully of this paper http://paa2004.princeton.edu/download.asp?submissionId=41274
Overall, it is a scathing indictment all round where all communities and usually the most weak suffered.

Not to mention, that people seem to give no thought to British strategic calculations that resulted in the creation of Pakistan in the first place. Nor to the fact, that almost all major religious Islamic scholars had rejected the idea that Pakistan should be carved out of India in the name of Islam as itself being UnIslamic.

For those interested, do read the book by the ADC to Lord Mountbatten Narindra Singh Sarila and how the British supported the Muslim League and Hindu Mahasabha on one hand and suppressed the Congress to divide and weaken the freedom movement and later carve out Pakistan for its strategic purposes in Central Asia and West Asia. And ofcourse keep an eye on South Asia. It was for no reason that the same GHQ that the British Indian Army used in Rawalpindi is also the current GHQ location for the Pakistan Army.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadow-Great-Narendra-Singh-Sarila/dp/1845293703

Even in UP, the people who actually voted in elections were around 11%, literacy was about 9%. To say that Muslims in UP all voted for Muslim League is to be unaware of historical realities. If people knew, it was the religious scholars from the much maligned Deoband who opposed Muslim League. The weavers or Ansaris for example opposed it too. Those who supported the idea migrated to Pakistan and that is the Muhajir or Urdu speaking community in Pakistan. Those who did NOT move out where Indian by choice because they believed in staying in India. And at times, even their choice was not taken into account. For example, the NWFP even in the 1946 elections had seen a Congress victory throughout but it still was passed on to Pakistan by passing popular opinion.
History is not always black and white but many shades of grey.

 

[A chauhan]

maomao ,

Nehru ka naam le ke kyu mood kharab karte ho bhai .

Mods/Admin -- Can I start a thread on "Nehru Biggest Mistake" ??

If mods approve i'll wait for that thread