IAF to induct indigenous radars

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
Those are not Israeli. They are sun bleached Indians!!
Does the sarcasm mean no credit to India because Israel is present? May be Britain should get all the credit in the development of Concord, Jaguar and the even Channel Tunnel because it was the British who did everything and France takes all the credit! :rolleyes:
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
It is made by Israel's ELTA, there seems to be conflicting reports in the media!
Its a JV with IAI, Just like other countries like France and britian had JV to make the Concord or Jaguar we have JVs and this does not mean France did nothing because it was a silent partner, Same way the DRDO developed the signal processing and software for tracking high speed ballistic missile targets. The radar uses mostly Indian designed and manufactured components like its critical high power L Band Transmit and Receive modules plus the other enabling technologies necessary for active phased array radars. Israel is has better processor technology which enables our designs to work faster and take on more complicated software prediction models as well as process more targets.
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Its a JV with IAI, Just like other countries like France and britian had JV to make the Concord or Jaguar we have JVs and this does not mean France did nothing because it was a silent partner, Same way the DRDO.
It really isn't the same as a JV between advanced European countries, Israel already has tech more advanced than this which is selling this other to India. India requires all major defence suppliers to form a JV to apply offsets through its venture. It is the law. India is not helping Israel develop anything with this radar as India is the client and Israel is the supplier. That is why 70% of Indian arms are imported.
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
It really isn't the same as a JV between advanced European countries, Israel already has tech more advanced than this which is selling this other to India. India requires all major defence suppliers to form a JV to apply offsets through its venture. It is the law. India is not helping Israel develop anything with this radar as India is the client and Israel is the supplier. That is why 70% of Indian arms are imported.
Your country is not that advanced that we need light years to catch up, we do everything you do. Most of your systems on your ships like the Mistral class are imported from either UK,US,Finland,Germany or Italy and you talk of our indigenousiation of Indian ships as if France is perfect. Everything from the propulsion to the censors have a huge foreign input. Lot of your other military equipments have foreign contents as well. If this was India we would be barging thats the diffrence.

Dont bring in the argument of cost cutting or it would be cheaper to buy from others. Our argument is the same, if we had the MONEY we would build the proper test infrastructure for R&D andd we would manufacture everything and employ a lot more scientists. So the French case is not too nuanced either.

I just loved the way you dismissed the argument by useing relative term like "advanced countries" as if we are not your equals. Its exactly this attitude that took US out of the MRCA because you either talk like equals or you dont get the money and you lose the deal and at this rate i only see the EADS winning the competition because its an consortium which is willing to treat us as more than equal partners.

You could also have never built the Concord by yourself, all of Snecmas commercial jet engines are JVs till date and the British provided the Engine technology to super cruise.
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Such outrageous comments Kafir. The only inferiority here is DRDO to Israeli MIC, or French or British. Simple fact India's technology is not even up to par with China much less Europe.
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
Such outrageous comments Kafir. The only inferiority here is DRDO to Israeli MIC, or French or British. Simple fact India's technology is not even up to par with China much less Europe.
Well the Mistral class is full of foreign crud, gald you did not argue against that. Indias technology is not up to Chinas? Does that mean China is way behind France? Did you notice China is the 2nd largest economy in the world? Your technology is not way advanced than ours, you just have more scientific sharing with fellow NATO countries which makes it easier to make stuff, where as India and China need to claw their way by themselves and yet our stuff is not way backward.


Even then our stuff like the Arjun tank is superior to Chinas and if China had something like the Kaveri engine they would have already used it, China is not ashamed to copy stuff either, if that makes them better then you have no idea what your talking about, our military would reject what China accepts from its ingeniousness program, So it is a matter of quality and reliability.

Added Later.. The DRDOs Arjun tank will crush the French Lepers tank for sure and it will maul the Israelis little merackava which has poor armour, Israels stuff is superior becoz it sleeps with the US now and need US to protect it and in a decades time our stuff will be in par with French and you would need JV with us like you do now.
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Well the Mistral class is full of foreign crud, gald you did not argue against that. Indias technology is not up to Chinas? Does that mean China is way behind France? Did you notice China is the 2nd largest economy in the world? Your technology is not way advanced than ours, you just have more scientific sharing with fellow NATO countries which makes it easier to make stuff, where as India and China need to claw their way by themselves and yet our stuff is not way backward.
Mistral is all French minus some COTS stuff anyone can buy. We wouldn't be able to export it and ToT to Russia if it wasn't.

Some figures for you... 94% of DGA procurement is spent in France. 30% of GoI procurement is spent in India. France exported $11 billion worth of defence products in 2009, India exported a laughable Rs 12.28 crore.

Defence exports from the country's Ordnance Factories have fallen to such meagre levels that the quantum is "laughable", a former Army General has said.

Defence exports from Ordnance Factories have slided from"a paltry Rs 41.07 crore in 2008-09 to a laughable Rs 12.28crore in 2009-10. It is a reflection of the nature and quality of items being produced indigenously," Maj Gen (Retd) Mrinal Suman said. Suman regretted that India has also not been able to produce "a single defence system with cutting-edge technology". There has been a "total failure" of policies governing foreign and private participation in defence production, with imports rising to as high as 75 per cent in 2009-10, Suman said writing in an article in the premier journal "Indian Defence Review".

‘Defence exports have dropped to laughable level’ « Indian Military News
Even then our stuff like the Arjun tank is superior to Chinas and if China had something like the Kaveri engine they would have already used it, China is not ashamed to copy stuff either, if that makes them better then you have no idea what your talking about, our military would reject what China accepts from its ingeniousness program, So it is a matter of quality and reliability.
The Arjun is superior to Chinese tanks because half of its stuff is from Europe.

Added Later.. The DRDOs Arjun tank will crush the French Lepers tank for sure and it will maul the Israelis little merackava which has poor armour, Israels stuff is superior becoz it sleeps with the US now and need US to protect it and in a decades time our stuff will be in par with French and you would need JV with us like you do now.
The Arjun Mk1 is little more than a Leo 2A4 which is a 20 year old tank. The Leclerc and Merkava Mk IV would roll over that like France and Israeli forces roll over Arabs. The Arjun Mk 2 is going to be a fusion of Leclerc and Merkava components.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Well the Mistral class is full of foreign crud, gald you did not argue against that. Indias technology is not up to Chinas? Does that mean China is way behind France? Did you notice China is the 2nd largest economy in the world? Your technology is not way advanced than ours, you just have more scientific sharing with fellow NATO countries which makes it easier to make stuff, where as India and China need to claw their way by themselves and yet our stuff is not way backward.
Mistral is all French minus some COTS stuff anyone can buy. We wouldn't be able to export it and ToT to Russia if it wasn't.

Some figures for you... 94% of DGA procurement is spent in France. 30% of GoI procurement is spent in India. France exported $11 billion worth of defence products in 2009, India exported a laughable Rs 12.28 crore.

Defence exports from the country's Ordnance Factories have fallen to such meagre levels that the quantum is "laughable", a former Army General has said.

Defence exports from Ordnance Factories have slided from"a paltry Rs 41.07 crore in 2008-09 to a laughable Rs 12.28crore in 2009-10. It is a reflection of the nature and quality of items being produced indigenously," Maj Gen (Retd) Mrinal Suman said. Suman regretted that India has also not been able to produce "a single defence system with cutting-edge technology". There has been a "total failure" of policies governing foreign and private participation in defence production, with imports rising to as high as 75 per cent in 2009-10, Suman said writing in an article in the premier journal "Indian Defence Review".

'Defence exports have dropped to laughable level' � Indian Military News
Even then our stuff like the Arjun tank is superior to Chinas and if China had something like the Kaveri engine they would have already used it, China is not ashamed to copy stuff either, if that makes them better then you have no idea what your talking about, our military would reject what China accepts from its ingeniousness program, So it is a matter of quality and reliability.
The Arjun is superior to Chinese tanks because half of its stuff is from Europe.

Added Later.. The DRDOs Arjun tank will crush the French Lepers tank for sure and it will maul the Israelis little merackava which has poor armour, Israels stuff is superior becoz it sleeps with the US now and need US to protect it and in a decades time our stuff will be in par with French and you would need JV with us like you do now.
The Arjun Mk1 is little more than a Leo 2A4 which is a 30 year old tank. The Leclerc and Merkava Mk IV would roll over that like France and Israeli forces roll over Arabs. The Arjun Mk 2 is going to be a fusion of Leclerc and Merkava components.
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
Mistral is all French minus some COTS stuff anyone can buy. We wouldn't be able to export it and ToT to Russia if it wasn't.

Some figures for you... 94% of DGA procurement is spent in France. 30% of GoI procurement is spent in India. France exported $11 billion worth of defence products in 2009, India exported a laughable Rs 12.28 crore.
LMAO The Mistrals engine is from Finland, the main Radar is from UK the Main turret gun is italian. Thats as ingenious as any Indian ship! I wonder how the DGA calculates its expenses because its sure as hell you have a lot of parts from other countries in your weapons and not to mention huge JVs on almost everything!!

Your Rafael depends on foreign buyers to justify the project and so do a lot of other French defense projects including tanks which require blood money to keep it alive because a little country like France cant justify all its development cost by itself. So i am not surprised to see you sell more.


The Arjun is superior to Chinese tanks because half of its stuff is from Europe.
Arjun will blow away T-96 and the Lecher wont be any different the Arjun has mostly Israeli DRDO stuff just like most of the French equipments do with JVs and last i checked The Leclerc engine is from? You guessed it right Finland. Also Israel is not in Europe if you did not know that, so stop talking for Israel. The DRDO will even have its own engine on Arjun soon but the Lechers engine is foreign so big deal there.


The Arjun Mk1 is little more than a Leo 2A4 which is a 20 year old tank. The Leclerc and Merkava Mk IV would roll over that like France and Israeli forces roll over Arabs. The Arjun Mk 2 is going to be a fusion of Leclerc and Merkava components.
Why does France always need JVs this time with UAE!! That explains everything, are they not arabs?

The 60 tone Arjun would make french toast of the Lecher.
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
LMAO The Mistrals engine is from Finland, the main Radar is from UK the Main turret gun is italian. Thats as ingenious as any Indian ship! The Lechers Engine is also from Finland. I wonder how the DGA calculates its expenses because its sure as hell you have a lot of parts from other countries in your weapons and not to mention huge JVs on almost everything!!
LMAO The engines are produced in Lorient, the company just happened to be bought out by Finland's Wartsila France SAS subsidary. The main radar is the MRR3D-NG MMR built by Thales and tied into the SENIT-9 C4I command system, also built by Thales. The only guns on it are 20mm Giat auto-cannons made by Nexter of France. The missile launchers are Sadral made by MBDA France, former Matra. DGA calculates workshare made in France.

Your Rafael depends on foreign buyers to justify the project and so do a lot of other French defense projects including tanks which require blood money to keep it alive because a little country like France cant justify all its development cost by itself. So i am not surprised to see you sell more.
We don't make Rafael... that is an Israeli defence company... try again. :laugh:

The Leclerc engine is made by Warstila France SAS, a subsidary of a Finnish company but made in France along with a host of other products made by France and sold by Finland. Unlike GoI, we are not afraid to let foreign companies own our manufacturers when they can run it better than we can. It gets the inefficiency out of the system when you PRIVATISE.

WTH is a Lecher?

Why does France always need JVs this time with UAE!! That explains everything, are they not arabs?
Because Rafale in its current programme development is good enough for France. UAE wants more so we give them more.
 

BangersAndMash

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
748
Likes
543
Its a JV with IAI.
What does IAI stand for?

Air Chief Marshal PV Naik, Chief of the Air Staff today inducted the first Medium Power Radar (MPR), named Arudhra by the IAF at Air Force Station Naliya in Gujrat.

At Naliya, an airbase which plays a pivotal role in the air defence of Saurashtra Kutch Region, the induction of this state of the art radar forms a part of radar upgradation and towards integration of all sensors into an Air Defence network.

This event at the culmination of Commanders' Conference of South Western Air Command (SWAC) saw Air Marshal A K Gogoi accompanying the Air Chief. Officers from Air HQ and South Western Air Command (SWAC) as well as representatives of ELTA Systems Ltd, Israel, the Original Equipment Manufacturer of the radar were also present on the occasion.

Arudhra Medium Power Radar inducted in the IAF
 

JAISWAL

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
1,527
Likes
1,027
Its a JV with IAI,
.

Sir, I dont think its JV.
Please read from my source its states that its and indegenous development.
.

Here is the source.....


Ministry of Defence Annual Report 2009/2010
.
http://mod.nic.in/reports/AR-eng-2010.pdf


Medium Power Radar (MPR) & Low Level Transportable Radars (LLTR) : DRDO has started design & development of these 4D (range; direction; height & doppler velocity) Radars required by the IAF for Air Surveillance. These Radars will use many state of the art technologies including advanced Active Array technology & Digital Beam Forming. Initially 8 indigenous MPRs and 18 numbers of LLTRs will be inducted by the Indian Air Force.

Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar : For Tejas and other fighter Aircraft, DRDO has started development of Airborne Active Array Radar in X Band. This high end technology based Radar will be of unprecedented reliability and superior performance compared to mechanically rotating Weapon Control Radar.



Page number 87/88
 

JAISWAL

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
1,527
Likes
1,027
Livefist: PHOTOS: IAF Inducts Indian-built Arudhra Medium Power Radar



.
Induction seremony pics
.
1st indigenous Medium Power Radar inducted at Naliya in Gujarat
PTI | 07:06 PM,Jun 03,2011

Ahmedabad, Jun 3 (PTI) The first indigenously-made Medium Power Radar (MPR) `Arudhra' was today inducted at Air Force station in Naliya, Kutch, near Pakistan border, at the hands of Air Chief Marshal P V Naik. Developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), `Arudhra' replaces the ageing TRS-2215 and PSM-33 radars, an official release here said. The radar has a state-of-the-art technology, capable of detecting targets at ranges greater than 300 kilometres, and it is an important component in IAF plans to achieve `net centric operations', it said. The radar is being inducted to strengthen air defence capabilities in the Saurashtra-Kutch region, it added. Gujarat coastline has several economically important installations and the new radar will help in extending their security. The IAF fighters conducted a fly-past synchronised with the induction of radar by the Chief of the Air Staff. The Air Force unit in which new radar has been inducted was raised in October 1966 in Jodhpur, and it moved to Naliya in June 1988. At Naliya the unit has played a pivotal role in air defence of Saurashtra-Kutch region.

1st indigenous Medium Power Radar inducted at Naliya in Guj, IBN Live News
 
Last edited:

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
LMAO The engines are produced in Lorient, the company just happened to be bought out by Finland's Wartsila France SAS subsidary. The main radar is the MRR3D-NG MMR built by Thales and tied into the SENIT-9 C4I command system, also built by Thales. The only guns on it are 20mm Giat auto-cannons made by Nexter of France. The missile launchers are Sadral made by MBDA France, former Matra. DGA calculates workshare made in France.
Wärtsilä Vasa engines are a line of maritime and power plant engines, produced by the Wärtsilä corporation at their factories in Vaasa, Finland, nice try to wiggle out. Fact.

30 mm Breda-Mauser is Italian. Again Fact!

M2 Browning Guns ins American, Fact.

E250 navigation radar Telemar UK Fact

I wonder where the steal is bought!


We don't make Rafael... that is an Israeli defence company... try again.
What is the name of the fighter you want to sell to India? I heard a lot depends on its future whether India buys it or not!


Because Rafale in its current programme development is good enough for France. UAE wants more so we give them more
.

UAE is a partner on the Tanks cost program because most of Frances military technology cost can not be justified if it is only for France.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Wärtsilä Vasa engines are a line of maritime and power plant engines, produced by the Wärtsilä corporation at their factories in Vaasa, Finland, nice try to wiggle out. Fact.
Owned by Wartsila, made in France.

Wartsila France S.A.S.: Private Company Information - BusinessWeek

30 mm Breda-Mauser is Italian. Again Fact!
No Mistral is fitted with 30mm Breda-Mauser.

M2 Browning Guns ins American, Fact.
You said gun mount, the mount is a cheap French stick. We do use .50 cal Brownings.

E250 navigation radar Telemar UK Fact
Certainly not the MAIN radar. It is a cheap COTS (commercial off the shelf) Nav radar used in many commercial vessels.

I wonder where the steal is bought!
North East France from Usinor now known as ArcelorMittal. So you have a few Browning machine guns and COTS Nav radar bought outside the country... oh no! Mistral is foreign made!! :laugh:

What is the name of the fighter you want to sell to India? I heard a lot depends on its future whether India buys it or not!
Rafale... not Rafael

UAE is a partner on the Tanks cost program because most of Frances military technology cost can not be justified if it is only for France.
UAE doesn't care if the cost is not justified for France. They buy what they want.
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,364
Country flag
So is it indigenous, or is it another renaming like 'Bhisma'?
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top