IAF to induct a squadron of armed Mi-17 V5 in Rajasthan next week

[Daredevil]

IAF will induct a squadron of armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters on Jan 7 at Phalodi air base, Rajasthan near Pakistan border.

The full compliment of manpower has been posted and the initial 10 Mi-17 helicopters that will be deployed will arrive by Thursday. A squadron's strength is 16-18 helicopters.

"These choppers fall in the armed helicopter category, with substantial and effective firepower and with the latest and more powerful engines that will greatly enhance their payload carriage capability," the source said.

The armed Mi-17 V5 is an upgrade of the Mi-17 medium-lift helicopter. It is equipped with state-of-the-art avionics and navigation systems and weather radar and is compatible with the latest-generation night vision goggles."With this, the helicopter can undertake all weather, day and night operations in any kind of terrain," the source said.

IAF to deploy armed Mi-17 squadron in Rajasthan near Pakistan border

 

[datguy79]

Re: IAF to induct a squadron of armed Mi-17 V5 in Rajasthan on Jan 7

Mi-17s are way too big to be used as attack coppers.

 

[DivineHeretic]

They are meant to be used as troop and equipment lifters to the rear of the frontlines. They dont have the agility of a attack heli and thus is very highly exposed to aa fire and rpgs.
The last time we tried using them as armed helos was in kargil.Need I remind anyone what happened?
At best they could be armed to provide a defensive screen and cover to heliborne assault troops.

 

[JBH22]

They are meant to be used as troop and equipment lifters to the rear of the frontlines. They dont have the agility of a attack heli and thus is very highly exposed to aa fire and rpgs.
The last time we tried using them as armed helos was in kargil.Need I remind anyone what happened?
At best they could be armed to provide a defensive screen and cover to heliborne assault troops.

Not all troops along the border will have MANPADS every time.
The MI-17V5 can transport troops and light vehicles plus give huge airsupport with rockets. Also the Mi-17V5 is completely different from the Mi-17 the latter did not have heat dissipators, flares or even Kevlar protection around the cockpit.


These helicopters can transport 30 troops at one time now with 16 choppers the IA can have the possibility to airlift 480troops at a moment notice.

Mobility of troops is the key issue

 

[datguy79]

This thread reminded me of a picture. This is how the Indian Forces might use them in concert with the Apaches:

 

[pmaitra]

"Armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters" sounds like an oxymoron. I am assuming they will add rocket pods to the sides. This is essentially a transport helicopter with less than satisfactory protection than it's sibling, the Mil-24/35, with Titanium cockpit and fast attack speed. In Rajasthan, i.e. low altitude operations, it would not have to make a rolling take-off. Sure, for troop transport, I'll take them. They must be used along with the AH-64s.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Not all troops along the border will have MANPADS every time.
The MI-17V5 can transport troops and light vehicles plus give huge airsupport with rockets. Also the Mi-17V5 is completely different from the Mi-17 the latter did not have heat dissipators, flares or even Kevlar protection around the cockpit.


These helicopters can transport 30 troops at one time now with 16 choppers the IA can have the possibility to airlift 480troops at a moment notice.

Mobility of troops is the key issue

Well manpads are not the only threat to the MIs. Rpgs and small arms fire is more than enough to take these platforms down as they lack the agility required to quickly move out of the crosshairs sight.
Which is why i believe they will be used more to the rear of the frontlines as a supply vehicle. If it undertakes any operation right at or beyond the frontlines as in heliborne assault,it must be supplemented by the lch or the apache.

 

[DivineHeretic]

"Armed Mi-17 V5 helicopters" sounds like an oxymoron. I am assuming they will add rocket pods to the sides. This is essentially a transport helicopter with less than satisfactory protection than it's sibling, the Mil-24/35, with Titanium cockpit and fast attack speed. In Rajasthan, i.e. low altitude operations, it would not have to make a rolling take-off. Sure, for troop transport, I'll take them. They must be used along with the AH-64s.

The apache being the supreme combat platform with the IA aviation corps(hopefully) will more than likely be designated the tank buster role and/or SEAD role. to be honest 22-44, whatever the no. Of apaches India buys will not be enough to conduct armor spearhead roles and escort role for assaulting helis, which btw the cold start envisages happening simultaneously to secure key waypoints.
The answer to this will be the large no. Of LCH and in limited ways the Rudra.

 

[JBH22]

Well manpads are not the only threat to the MIs. Rpgs and small arms fire is more than enough to take these platforms down as they lack the agility required to quickly move out of the crosshairs sight.
Which is why i believe they will be used more to the rear of the frontlines as a supply vehicle. If it undertakes any operation right at or beyond the frontlines as in heliborne assault,it must be supplemented by the lch or the apache.

Its a transport helicopter which has secondary role as a gunship its not meant to take on SPAAGS like Shilkas,Roland etc.

Also Apache face same problem during 2003 Iraq war one was shot down using old rifle and RPGs so issue is not there and who says that the Mi-17 is not agile,please go through the Soviet-afghan war record this helicopter was key in supplying far outpost without even touching the ground.

This chopper is legendary its the AK-47 of helicopters.

 

[sob]

This is the beast

 

[DivineHeretic]

Its a transport helicopter which has secondary role as a gunship its not meant to take on SPAAGS like Shilkas,Roland etc.

Also Apache face same problem during 2003 Iraq war one was shot down using old rifle and RPGs so issue is not there and who says that the Mi-17 is not agile,please go through the Soviet-afghan war record this helicopter was key in supplying far outpost without even touching the ground.

This chopper is legendary its the AK-47 of helicopters.

It appears u misunderstood my usage of the word "agility". My bad.
I agree with your post that its a fantastic troop carrier that can double up as a gunship when needed. But the problem is that in a saturated environment it cannot safely unload its cargo and / or troops. For heliborne insertions the helicopter must hover till the assault forces are safely on the ground. In such a scenario an attack chopper is a must to ensure safety of the platform

 

[JBH22]

It appears u misunderstood my usage of the word "agility". My bad.
I agree with your post that its a fantastic troop carrier that can double up as a gunship when needed. But the problem is that in a saturated environment it cannot safely unload its cargo and / or troops. For heliborne insertions the helicopter must hover till the assault forces are safely on the ground. In such a scenario an attack chopper is a must to ensure safety of the platform

Let me clarify its a gunship which is basically transport helicopter with some serious firepower and the AH-64,Mi-28 or LCH are attack helicopters if you are looking for CAS then the latter is preferred.

However the Mi-17 can perform these roles though not optimally.

 

[DivineHeretic]

I'm actually inteested in heliborn assaults which will play a crucial role in any future offensive against pak,both in the desert plains as well as the mountaineous terrain in Kashmir. We have a huge advantage as far as helis and airlift capability is concerned.
My Q is that can the IA/IAF afford to send these choppers to hostile teritory for sabotage,rapid occupation of critical waypoints by only arming them and not sending attack helis to support and escort against ground based threat?

 

[K Factor]

The apache being the supreme combat platform with the IA aviation corps(hopefully) will more than likely be designated the tank buster role and/or SEAD role. to be honest 22-44, whatever the no. Of apaches India buys will not be enough to conduct armor spearhead roles and escort role for assaulting helis, which btw the cold start envisages happening simultaneously to secure key waypoints.

IA will not be getting Apaches. Talked to an IAF GC and he said that no way will IAF allow primary heavy attack helos to be flown by IAC.

 

[DivineHeretic]

IA will not be getting Apaches. Talked to an IAF GC and he said that no way will IAF allow primary heavy attack helos to be flown by IAC.

Thats kind of sad.

 

[JBH22]

I'm actually inteested in heliborn assaults which will play a crucial role in any future offensive against pak,both in the desert plains as well as the mountaineous terrain in Kashmir. We have a huge advantage as far as helis and airlift capability is concerned.

Past heliborne airborne operations by India,swift movement of troops is crucial ability to project your troops where it is less expected helps

Indian Air Force :: Chapter 3 : Descent Into Danger - The Jaffna University Helidrop
Meghna Heli Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My Q is that can the IA/IAF afford to send these choppers to hostile teritory for sabotage,rapid occupation of critical waypoints by only arming them and not sending attack helis to support and escort against ground based threat?

Refer to Abotabbad raid for OBL.

Sending helicopters in a SAM infested area is not advisable but with good ECM and tactics this can be negated

 

[datguy79]

I'm actually inteested in heliborn assaults which will play a crucial role in any future offensive against pak,both in the desert plains as well as the mountaineous terrain in Kashmir. We have a huge advantage as far as helis and airlift capability is concerned.
My Q is that can the IA/IAF afford to send these choppers to hostile teritory for sabotage,rapid occupation of critical waypoints by only arming them and not sending attack helis to support and escort against ground based threat?

Just my opinion, but I don't think India has enough helis at the moment. If all the domestic programs bear fruit, coupled with exports, then we are talking.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Just my opinion, but I don't think India has enough helis at the moment. If all the domestic programs bear fruit, coupled with exports, then we are talking.

Not completely true about there not being enough helis but ya, we could do with more.
I'm not actually talking about heliborn assault as in a similar fashion to say a paraborne assault, rather one where smaller battalion sized fromations will secure critical locations allowing unimpeded movement to assaulting IBGs.
Its somewhat less than a special forces assault, but in many ways is far more challenging to plan, sustain and accomplish.

 

[mikhail]

Past heliborne airborne operations by India,swift movement of troops is crucial ability to project your troops where it is less expected helps

Indian Air Force :: Chapter 3 : Descent Into Danger - The Jaffna University Helidrop
Meghna Heli Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Refer to Abotabbad raid for OBL.

Sending helicopters in a SAM infested area is not advisable but with good ECM and tactics this can be negated

mate can these MI-17V5 fire ATGMs other than 70mm rockets?if yes then what w\kind of missiles can it fire?

 

[WMD]

Indian Mi-17s r not attack choppers, IAF has two squadrons of Mi-24/35 for that role,
for light attack purpose there is HAL Cheetah/Lancer/Cheetal r used which can carry 70mm rockets, ATGMs, flare and chaffs for protection from MANPADS threat.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...r-22-Cheetal-helicopters/Article1-974619.aspx