IAF Tanker Contract - New RFI out

[F-14]

a major reson for the switch is also partitay sinces both the PLAAF(has) and the PAF(will have) the Midas we have fealt the need for the airbus

 

[AJSINGH]

a major reson for the switch is also partitay sinces both the PLAAF(has) and the PAF(will have) the Midas we have fealt the need for the airbus

PAF wont have a2a refulers anytime soon

 

[AJSINGH]

Interesting. India has finally decided to move to the West and away from Russian junk.
But India, still smarting about the armaments being sold to Pakistan by the United States, has turned to Europe in a diplomatic coup.

And here is that MRTT330 we are talking about

russian junk well these russian fighters will be the one which your airforce will fear when they see su amd migs in the skies

 

[bhramos]

so whats wrong PAF buying transport and A2A planes from Russia,
anyway in past they brought Mi-8,17,maybe 26 too, they were not offensive weapons,
but when we[IAF] start rejecting they will definatly go to others [PAF],

 

[AJSINGH]

FinMin opposes IAF choice for refuelling aircraft

The Indian Air Force’s plan to acquire six new refuelling aircraft to give its fighters extended reach has hit a roadblock with the Finance Ministry questioning the selection of the European Airbus 330 MRTT aircraft that costs almost twice as much as its Russian built competitor.


While two aircraft—the Airbus 330 MRTT and the Russian IL 78—had taken part in the global tender taken out in 2006 to provide six refuellers, the Air Force had recently selected the European platform after technical trials. This, despite the fact that India already has a fleet of six IL 78 tankers ordered from Uzbekistan in 2002.


However, the Finance Ministry is said to have objected to the selection as the Airbus 330 MRTT deal would cost upwards of Rs 8,000 crore against the estimated budget of Rs 5,000 crore set by the Defence Ministry. On the other hand, the fleet of Russian built IL-78 would cost only Rs 4,800 crore.


The Finance Ministry has pointed out that India already has a fleet of the IL 78 refuellers, making it easier to induct a larger number of the aircraft. Financial advisers have also pointed out that the IL-78 fleet currently in service with the Air Force is relatively new as the last aircraft was inducted as late as 2004. This, analysts say, rules out the argument that a modernised platform is needed by the Air Force.


The Air Force, on the other hand, is fed up of constant delays in spare parts as well as quality issues with Russian built aircraft. The Russian aircraft, officers say, also did not meet all requirements set in the tender. Senior officials have pointed out that not only does the Airbus aircraft have a larger range but also the ability to carry extra fuel along with a passenger or cargo load.


While the IAF is very keen on acquiring refueling aircraft at the earliest given the threat environment and the need to deploy fighters on extended missions, the Finance Ministry’s objection is likely to delay the final signing of the contract.

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Praveen's comment

IAF should with IL-78 it will be easy for maintance & low cost compare to Airbus 330 MRTT

righlty said so , better stay with IL 76 , dont know if GOI will aprove the airbus order because of the huge cost no matter what IAF says , cost is an issue , plus spares problem wont be any longer because the manufacturing units are in better shape in ukraine now

 

[Vladimir79]

Interesting. India has finally decided to move to the West and away from Russian junk.
But India, still smarting about the armaments being sold to Pakistan by the United States, has turned to Europe in a diplomatic coup.

And here is that MRTT330 we are talking about

Really? I just read the FinMin is likely to cancel Airbus for cost overuns. Wouldn't that be funny if and when they do?

 

[bhramos]

yeah we need low cost + hightech , we cant or should not afford more money on such costly platforms, but i'm not against modernizing the fleet, atpresent people are starving, like this Cheap and best options can only be accepted,
as off range of airbus MRTT330 , we dont have any longrange threats as of now are in near future,
as off spares problem Russia promised to built local supply plants for big fleets,
Sukhoi has already started it. Mig is ready to build a plant in India too, if we have this deal too,may be in future Illusion may too.

 

[Vladimir79]

yeah we need low cost + hightech , we cant or should not afford more money on such costly platforms, but i'm not against modernizing the fleet, atpresent people are starving, like this Cheap and best options can only be accepted,
as off range of airbus MRTT330 , we dont have any longrange threats as of now are in near future,
as off spares problem Russia promised to built local supply plants for big fleets,
Sukhoi has already started it. Mig is ready to build a plant in India too, if we have this deal too,may be in future Illusion may too.

Ilyushin is now a part of JSC and they aren't going to play the hog spare parts game anymore. Policy set last year is to provide any large regional orders with service and parts centres. HAL is getting a service centre for all of Su-30 orders in the region including servicing Malaysia, Vietnam, and Indonesian Flankers. We are bringing future business to India in after sale service. Indians who gripe and complain don't realise the lengths to which we are bending to make them happy.

 

[enlightened1]

in red flag excercise anyway IAF had to send 1 IL76 and 1il 78 . even if they had airbus a2a refullers , they would send two of them because the crew which was in the excercise was large they needed extra transport aircraft

Really?? This is from RedFlag last year

 

[Iceman007]

Its not to say that Midas tankers are junk but at the end of the day the Russians need to come out an overall lifetime cost.......Initial costs in Russian equipment is always going to be be cheaper the life time costs might add............how they compare to the airbus, we could only speculate but the final decision will be made the babus sitting in Delhi based on the geopolitical diplomacy balancing act.............Could the Airbus MRTT be serviced in India locally without setting up a dedicated facility (many airlines fly the A330 in India)

 

[Vladimir79]

Its not to say that Midas tankers are junk but at the end of the day the Russians need to come out an overall lifetime cost.......Initial costs in Russian equipment is always going to be be cheaper the life time costs might add............how they compare to the airbus, we could only speculate but the final decision will be made the babus sitting in Delhi based on the geopolitical diplomacy balancing act.............Could the Airbus MRTT be serviced in India locally without setting up a dedicated facility (many airlines fly the A330 in India)

IAF already operates a whole regiment of IL-76, PHALCONs, and IL-78 tankers. There are plenty frames there to make it worth it to place a service centre. India would also become a hub for the region for all regional IL-76 modification and servicing. Iran has a couple dozen as well as Uzbekistan and four in Kyrgyzstan. That right there would make India a major hub, if you get China on the deal you would have a market for almost 100 planes.

 

[Vladimir79]

BTW, the IL-76/78 upgrade decrease life cycle costs.

 

[AJSINGH]

Really?? This is from RedFlag last year

do even know another aircraft was there for spare parts and support crew for sukhois

 

[enlightened1]

First you said,

in red flag excercise anyway IAF had to send 1 IL76 and 1 il 78 .

I debunked this myth of yours, then you said something like...

do even know another aircraft was there for spare parts and support crew for sukhois

 

[AJSINGH]

First you said,

I debunked this myth of yours, then you said something like...

whats your point ?

 

[ajay_ijn]

may be the basic difference between IL-78 & Airbus is while IL-78 came from a military frieghter while A330 is a airliner. The former concentrates on transporting different types of cargo & land on underdeveloped/shorter runways while latter concentrates mainly on fuel efficiency. That would increase flight radius and endurance.

 

[abhi]

In wake of the tanker controversy just one question:- Do we plan to operate our tankers in multi mission mode. Like refuelling other fighters and at the same time droppping in supplies/troops at the same time. Aren't these essentially two different profiles? Dropping supplies and troops would say take place in forward areas/posts and refuelling given our geographical situation and the range our aircrafts should ideally be some distance inlands from the borders where all the action takes place(just for safety!). Transferrable fuel carring capacity of both the aircrafts is probably in the same league however the ferry range of il-78 is ~7000 and airbus ~14000 but do require the greater range by paying twice(!). Guys buying two dedicated IL( one refueller and other transporter) aircrafts for the price of one airbus makes more logical to me atleast! YOUR opinion guys.

 

[AJSINGH]

In wake of the tanker controversy just one question:- Do we plan to operate our tankers in multi mission mode. Like refuelling other fighters and at the same time droppping in supplies/troops at the same time. Aren't these essentially two different profiles? Dropping supplies and troops would say take place in forward areas/posts and refuelling given our geographical situation and the range our aircrafts should ideally be some distance inlands from the borders where all the action takes place(just for safety!). Transferrable fuel carring capacity of both the aircrafts is probably in the same league however the ferry range of il-78 is ~7000 and airbus ~14000 but do require the greater range by paying twice(!). Guys buying two dedicated IL( one refueller and other transporter) aircrafts for the price of one airbus makes more logical to me atleast! YOUR opinion guys.

good point there . you nailed it , paying upwards of 8000 cores for six a2a refullers is nuts no matter what the aircraft can do . So what airbus can offer transport option but 8000 crores is too much to pay . anyway i have my doubts that finmin will pay for those aircraft . no matter what IAF says . Il 76 are doing a good job non the less , wondering why did not IAF buy airbus in the first place and why now . comon aircraft reduces the cost of flying as well as training

 

[enlightened1]

PIB Press Release

13:22 IST
/LOK SABHA/

The Indian Air Force (IAF) had proposed the procurement of six Flight Refueller Aircraft to meet the growing Air-to-air Refuelling tasks in the IAF and Indian Navy. The procurement proposal had been progressed in accordance with the Defence Procurement Procedure – 2006 and thereafter referred to the Ministry of Finance who has expressed certain reservations relating to the competitiveness of the bids and the reasonableness of the price. The Defence Procurement Procedure envisages a time line of up to two and a half years from the date of issue of Request for Proposal to signing of the contract in multi-vendor cases. Every effort is made to adhere to these time lines.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Asaduddin Owaisi in Lok Sabha today.

PK / RAJ

 

[Sridhar]

IAF’s mid-air refueller deal awaits finance ministry’s nod

BY : IANS

The Indian Air Force’s (IAF) deal for mid-air refuellers has been delayed as it awaits the approval of the finance ministry, Defence Minister A.K. Antony revealed Monday.The IAF had proposed to buy six mid-air refuellers in a $1 billion deal three years ago.
‘The procurement proposal had progressed in accordance with the Defence Procurement Procedure-2006 (DPP-2006) and thereafter referred to the ministry of finance who has expressed certain reservations relating to the competitiveness of the bids and the reasonableness of the price,’ Antony told Lok Sabha in a written reply.The delay in approval has been despite the fact that the DPP envisages a time line of up to two-and-a-half years from the date of issue of tenders to signing of the contract in multi-vendor cases.
‘Every effort is made to adhere to these time line,’ Antony added.
The IAF has been operating a squadron of Russian-built IL-78 air-to-air refuellers, which help to keep the fighter aircraft in air for longer durations by refuelling them up in the air.
The IAF has indicated preference for the EADS Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker transport aircraft over the Russian refueller.


IAF’s mid-air refueller deal awaits finance ministry’s nod IDRW.ORG