IAF Demand for 250 Tejas MK2

[ninja85]

the founders were foreigners and engineers they founded this company before independence and then expanded teh company

Then they increased the professionals in management and then those management took the co public and today it is the 100% professionally managed co in india

no family or business gorup control over it

so it's totally indian company,the thing i heard that it's a franchise of a foreign company and they foreigners owns it is fake.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

so it's totally indian company,the thing i heard that it's a franchise of a foreign company and they foreigners owns it is fake.

yes it is not a franchise of foreign co

 

[Srinivas_K]

Even if this deal doesn't come through, India will have three production lines. One each for LCA, Rafale and MKI/FGFA.

Rafala deal is yet to be signed, India is buying 126 of them or less.

MKI production rate is very slow.

On the other hand the number of squadrons are way less than sanctioned ones. To address this India needs a cheap, low maintenance and effective dog fighter to defend against aggression of China which will be in numbers.

India needs to produce LCA at faster rate with more than one assembly line.

 

[sgarg]

Every rational person agrees that we need aircraft manufacturing in private sector.

This is not due to an anti-PSU attitude but reality of India. Indian PSUs are marred by labour problems (indiscipline), inefficiency, and poor decision making.

Aviation is a very dynamic and tech-intensive field which is not suitable for PSUs.

The reservation of defence production for PSUs was a strategic mistake committed by this nation. There is no logic to continue that mistake.

I would definitely like the titans like Tatas and Mahindras to come forward and make the nation proud.

 

[sgarg]

From Livefist:

To [email protected]: I was referring to the Dhruv ALH crash-landing at Hyderabad in December 2005. The crash landing revealed a serious fault in the machine's tail rotor blades. "The fault was a combination of non-compliance of the stipulated manufacturing process as well as use of life-expired consumables that are not easily available," K.P. Puri, Managing Director of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), said on January 15, 2006. These factors led to "de-bonding" of the raisin-based components in the composite tail rotor. This in turn produced extra vibrations, leading to imbalance of the tail rotor blades, which ultimately broke. The material used in the construction of the tail rotor was procured from a Swiss firm, which no longer produces the materials. Now similar material is being sourced from an Australian firm, which incidentally, belongs to an Indian entrepreneur.
The above admission by HAL proved at that time that faulty QC practices related to composites-made components were prevalent at the production stage.

Livefist: State Agency Busy, Private Industry To Build Composites For Production LCA Tejas

 

[p2prada]

Rafala deal is yet to be signed, India is buying 126 of them or less.

Not less, but more.

MKI production rate is very slow.

It's a fighter that is difficult to produce in large numbers. Our highest yearly delivery that we achieved was 15 out of a total production capacity of 16 per year. So, it's not slow. If you look at EF and Rafale, they are produced in lesser numbers comparatively.

On the other hand the number of squadrons are way less than sanctioned ones. To address this India needs a cheap, low maintenance and effective dog fighter to defend against aggression of China which will be in numbers.

India needs to produce LCA at faster rate with more than one assembly line.

What's funny is just yesterday we didn't have enough money for Rafale. Today we have enough money for much more than just Rafale.

The bigger problem is this news has not been reported anywhere else. I'm sure all our major newspapers would have picked it up and reported it by now, but I don't see anything. So we simply have to wait for official confirmation.

We can technically produce jets faster from a single production line by increasing work cells. And as long as Rafale and FGFA are not affected we can have any number of LCAs until AMCA comes online.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Not less, but more.

You have written that GOI is claiming that there is no money for Rafale.

Fact is this MMRCA deal is absorbing the new technology and incorporating it in India's new fighter projects. By 2020 China will field its stealth fighter jets. Future will see airforces fielding 5 gen fighters and advanced UAVs.

It's a fighter that is difficult to produce in large numbers. Our highest yearly delivery that we achieved was 15 out of a total production capacity of 16 per year. So, it's not slow. If you look at EF and Rafale, they are produced in lesser numbers comparatively.

Reason why India needs a light and effective fighter to fill the gaps. LCA fits the bill perfectly.

What's funny is just yesterday we didn't have enough money for Rafale. Today we have enough money for much more than just Rafale.

The bigger problem is this news has not been reported anywhere else. I'm sure all our major newspapers would have picked it up and reported it by now, but I don't see anything. So we simply have to wait for official confirmation.

We can technically produce jets faster from a single production line by increasing work cells. And as long as Rafale and FGFA are not affected we can have any number of LCAs until AMCA comes online.

The key issue is

How many tanks, fighter jets and missiles India can produce once a major war breaks out ??

This will decide the winner.

A nation should think about worst case scenario and prepare for that.

If a major war breaks out with China and Pakistan, the Tanks, fighter jets , missiles, Naval assets will dwindle at faster rate .... reason why India needs to establish more number of production lines and produce at faster rate.

 

[p2prada]

You have written that GOI is claiming that there is no money for Rafale.

Can you please point out where I have said that, because I have repeatedly said the exact opposite?

Fact is this MMRCA deal is absorbing the \new technology and incorporating it in India's new fighter projects. By 2020 China will field its stealth fighter jets. Future will see airforces fielding 5 gen fighters and advanced UAVs.

Even better air forces are not building up only 5th gen forces. China will continue investing in 4th gen technologies even in 2020.

The key issue is

How many tanks, fighter jets and missiles India can produce once a major war breaks out ??

This will decide the winner.

No. If you know anything about the Indian Army and war, you will now that you are entirely wrong.

If a major war breaks out with China and Pakistan, the Tanks, fighter jets , missiles, Naval assets will dwindle at faster rate .... reason why India needs to establish more number of production lines and produce at faster rate.

Can you please tell me how many tanks, jets and naval assets can be built in 40 days?

 

[Shaitan]

There is no pvt sector company in India that can match the contributions made by TASL and L&T and their expertise, both long term subcontractors of HAL and DRDO. TASL already has a fairly modern plant that makes aero components already.

So does Mahindra.

 

[Zebra]

if founders were foreigners how this company is indian?

L&T History

L&T was founded in Bombay (Mumbai) in 1938 by two Danish engineers, Henning Holck-Larsen and Soren Kristian Toubro. Both of them were strongly committed to developing India's engineering capabilities to meet the demands of industry.....

==================

75 Years of L&T


Published on Mar 20, 2014, by keyur solanki

 

[Zebra]

So does Mahindra.....

Sir, all these are for four different aircrafts. If I am not wrong.

1) GippsAero GA8 Airvan Aircraft – A Utility Aircraft

2) GippsAero GA10

3) CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform

...India's CSIR-National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL - a constituent laboratory of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research), and Mahindra Aerospace jointly developed C-NM5 aircraft, marking an important milestone in their collaborative aircraft development programme....

4) GippsAero GA18 Aircraft - A Rugged & Maintainable Aircraft

 

[Shaitan]

Sir, all these are for four different aircrafts. If I am not wrong.

1) GippsAero GA8 Airvan Aircraft – A Utility Aircraft

2) GippsAero GA10

3) CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform

4) GippsAero GA18 Aircraft - A Rugged & Maintainable Aircraft

Yeah, made for those small planes.

 

[Zebra]

Yeah, made for those small planes.

Something interesting...

Forbes India Magazine - Indian Auto Majors Look Skywards

FEATURES/Big Bet | Feb 3, 2014

Indian Auto Majors Look Skywards

by Cuckoo Paul

Unlike global auto majors who have typically steered clear of the big aero dream, the Tata group and Mahindra & Mahindra are looking to ambitiously breach the road-air divide.....

 

[sgarg]

Mahindras have sunk a lot of money into the defence sector. They have built factories for this specific purpose.

Bharat Forge has also spent quite a lot of money to build capacities for defence sector. And of course L&T which is perhaps the largest contributor. I think L&T is earning 1000cr yearly from defence business.

I think auto companies are more suited to aircraft manufacturing as they have greater experience with assembly line production.

HAL employs 750 people in Tejas assembly. So let us say a new line needs some 1000-1200 people. This is a size easily manageable by companies like Tata and Mahindra.

 

[sgarg]

Can you please point out where I have said that, because I have repeatedly said the exact opposite?

Even better air forces are not building up only 5th gen forces. China will continue investing in 4th gen technologies even in 2020.

No. If you know anything about the Indian Army and war, you will now that you are entirely wrong.

Can you please tell me how many tanks, jets and naval assets can be built in 40 days?

You are a propagandist. Who are you? What knowledge do you have of war? What makes you an expert?

I see you put grossly misleading statements on this Board.

Are you a Rafale salesman.

MMRCA tender is completely mismanaged. They are asking Rafale unit cost and lifecycle cost now - more than two years after tender is closed. The financial bid is most important in Government tender. I believe you have no knowledge of government procedures.

Only vendors that pass technical evaluation are supposed to give financial bids. And a finalist is chosen based on financial bid. The financial bid MUST have all the details which is needed for the government to make a decision. It is not that first a finalist is selected and then financial bid is asked two years later.

There is nothing to negotiate once the tender is closed. The negotiation must take place before the finalist is declared.

I have already told you the the procedures have been flouted in this tender.

The GOI is playing along but do not be very hopeful on Rafale.

If they reopen the tender (call for financial bids again) they will have to ask other parties too.

 

[Zebra]

You are a propagandist. Who are you? What knowledge do you have of war? What makes you an expert?

I see you put grossly misleading statements on this Board.

Are you a Rafale salesman.

MMRCA tender is completely mismanaged. They are asking Rafale unit cost and lifecycle cost now - more than two years after tender is closed. The financial bid is most important in Government tender. I believe you have no knowledge of government procedures.

Only vendors that pass technical evaluation are supposed to give financial bids. And a finalist is chosen based on financial bid. The financial bid MUST have all the details which is needed for the government to make a decision. It is not that first a finalist is selected and then financial bid is asked two years later.

There is nothing to negotiate once the tender is closed. The negotiation must take place before the finalist is declared.

I have already told you the the procedures have been flouted in this tender.

The GOI is playing along but do not be very hopeful on Rafale.

If they reopen the tender (call for financial bids again) they will have to ask other parties too.

So can someone challenge MoD in court of law for this part......

It is not that first a finalist is selected and then financial bid is asked two years later.

 

[Zebra]

@ersakthivel, :thumb:

Where are you my friend...!

Good news here "IAF Demand for 250 Tejas MK2".

 

[sgarg]

Yes. Once contract is awarded to Dasault, it is clear that other tender participants will challenge it. This is the reason UPA government did not award the contract.

The GOI has to take into account diplomatic aspects as well. The government cannot put out statements even if there are problems.

However it is clear that calling for costs now is equal to re-opening the tender.

Since technology is dynamic, and new features are being added to other planes as well. Repricing is not such an easy exercise as many people assume.

The government has to see many angles. Mr Jaitley is a lawyer. You must understand that he is a cautious man.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Sir, all these are for four different aircrafts. If I am not wrong.

1) GippsAero GA8 Airvan Aircraft – A Utility Aircraft

2) GippsAero GA10

3) CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform

4) GippsAero GA18 Aircraft - A Rugged & Maintainable Aircraft

but these are all produced in australia and australian facilities

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Sir, all these are for four different aircrafts. If I am not wrong.

1) GippsAero GA8 Airvan Aircraft – A Utility Aircraft

2) GippsAero GA10

3) CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform CNM5: 5-Seat Versatile Platform

4) GippsAero GA18 Aircraft - A Rugged & Maintainable Aircraft

but these are all produced in australia and australian facilities