I am a Pakistani Indian

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Ray

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Now you are playing with the words...

The bottomline is that it is a means to divide people...

I have seen among Muslims a Syed family will not give their daughter to a Ansari family...

Will in any arab country or society will allow pakistani men marrying a arab women ?? another example of casteism among muslims...
what is so great about Syeds and Shieks?

They are as good as Ansaris as human beings.

Unless, of course there is a caste divide, euphemistically called by them as class.

Same as the discrimination as caste!!
 

Ray

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if so is the case than why even Great People like lord ram and krishna didnt eat through the hands of shudras?


in the rest of religion they are man made but in hinduism they are mentioned in the religious text.

i will post from official hinduism religious books tonight
All religons are man made

Who the Dickens has seen God and who is the witness that the man has seen God to proselytize?

Let us cut out the nonsense lest this thread spiral down!

Keep to what can be debated.
 
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farhan_9909

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Did you author Grimms' Fairy Tales?

Or are you Hans Christen Andersen?

What you are stating is varna.

Got it , Steve?

I am speaking of social discrimination because of profession with the hangover baggage of your Indian past!

Since you are such a knowall, do give me the social discrimination of other Islamic nations based on profession!
No,None

But just a false myths buster about pakistan/ISLAM
 

Ray

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If Islam in Pakistan was that embracing and fair to humanity without class and caste differentiation, then the lower caste of Hindus in Pakistan who did not come to India would have embraced Islam.

Instead they embraced Christianity.

And they are being subjected to the draconian and evil Blasphemy Law, that is applied most indiscriminately by the Moslems, but the Christians are lucky since Pakistan still kowtows to the Christian world and so are saved from the gallows.

The Hindus of Pakistan run back to India notwithstanding the loud, but false claim, that there is no caste in Pakistan!
 

Ray

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No,None

But just a false myths buster about pakistan/ISLAM
How could you get it?

Steeped in false propaganda.

Read all my posts including the video and then rubbish what I have said!

Pakistan is no paragon of religious, class, caste tolerance!

It is a web of contradictions and in a flayed search for identity!

Adding a 'Syed' does not wipe away the reality of origin! ;)

And we all know where they come from! ;) :rofl:

Guess?

The Suryavanshis of India claim to be descendants of the Sun!
 
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bose

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what is so great about Syeds and Shieks?

They are as good as Ansaris as human beings.

Unless, of course there is a caste divide, euphemistically called by them as class.

Same as the discrimination as caste!!
Exactly Sir, that is what I am trying to drive the point this EVIL of casteism is present there among Muslims too.. they are camouflaged in a different name such as class or sects whatever they may call it the end result is same if not worse than what we see in some backwards places in India...

Let us not be so hypocritical and throw stones to others when the same practice is precedent in their own people"¦ when you show them the mirror they get into the denial mode and hide behind sects, class and what not"¦

I have seen one of my fathers Muslim colleague was reluctant to any marriage proposals for his daughter with Ansari's and some others caste among Muslims"¦ This is a fact and still they deny that... the only difference is among Hindus we clearly accept the evil practice [nothing to do with religion] where as among Muslims they deny it existence"¦
 
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Ray

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Arab origins

Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent. If not direct Arab descent, then the illustrious ancestor had come from either Iran or Bukhara. Interestingly, the ancestor is always a great general or a saint. Never ever have we heard anyone boasting of an intellectual for a forebear. We hear of the progeny of savage robber kings, but there is no one who claims Abu Rehan Al-Beruni or Ibn Rushd as a distant sire.

Arab origin is the favourite fiction of all subcontinental Muslims. Most claim their ancestor arrived in Sindh with the army under Mohammad bin Qasim (MbQ). But, I have heard of lineages reaching back to Old Testament prophets as well. An elderly Janjua (Rajput), from the Salt Range told me of a forefather named Ar, a son of the Prophet Isaac. Ar, he said, was the ancestor of the races that spoke the Aryan tongue!

Touted as a local intellectual, this worthy was unmindful of the fact that Aryan was not a tribal name but a linguistic classification. Neither could he tell me how the name Ar, not being in the Old Testament, had reached him. He insisted this name headed his family tree and was, therefore true. The chart, written on a piece of rather newish paper had been, the Janjua insisted, copied from an old original. The original was of course destroyed after the copy was made.

The Arains flaunt Salim al Raee as their father — the clan being called after his surname. A great and valiant general in the army of MbQ, this man was from an agricultural family of Syria, so the Tarikh-e-Araian tells us. Closer to our times, the Arains are indeed acclaimed for their green thumb for which reason Shah Jehan relocated a large bunch of them to mind the newly laid out Shalimar Garden of Lahore. Today, they are a very rich clan in Baghbanpura.

The Tarikh expounds on this fictional ancestor's noble background and courage in battle to the extent that he almost outshines MbQ. But it does not give us any source or reference for the rubbish that sullies its pages. There are two authentic histories of the Arab conquest of Sindh. Ahmad Al Biladhuri's Futuh ul Buladan (written circa 860) and Hamid bin Ali Kufi's Tarikh-e-Hind wa Sindh, translated first into the Persian as Fatehnama Sindh and then into Sindhi as the Chachnama (written circa 1200).

There are dozens of names sprinkled across the pages of both works, but no mention is made of a blue-blooded warrior called Salim al Raee. There are other histories besides these two works which also disregard this name for the only reason that such a man never existed.

The Awans, similarly, have a fictional ancestor called Qutb Shah from the line of the last caliph of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. My friend Kaiser Tufail, an Arain, has had himself genetically tested from the US. He has no trace of Arab blood. His line comes from what is now Uzbekistan and has lived from early historic times in the subcontinent. The rest of us of this clan will see similar results should we go through this exercise. Kaiser had his son-in-law, an Awan, also tested. He, too, is singularly clean of Arab genes.

Most of us are the progeny of converts. In their need to escape the discrimination of the so-called higher castes, our ancestors converted to a religion that in theory claimed to profess human equality regardless of colour or caste. I use the words 'in theory' because even as the Arabs converted our ancestors to Islam, they discriminated against them for being "Hindis" as we learn this from Ibn Batuta's own prejudices. And he is not alone.

Consequently, even after conversion, my ancestors, poor agriculturists, were looked down upon by the Arabs and even those who had converted earlier the same way as they were by the Brahmans when they professed their Vedic belief. Within a generation or two, those early converts began the great lie of Arab ancestry to be equal to other converts and the Arabs. This became universal with time.

The challenge then is for all those, Baloch, Pathan, Punjabi et al, who have invented illegitimate fathers for ourselves to get ourselves tested and know the bitter truth.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 7th, 2012.

Arab origins – The Express Tribune

*******************************

@Farhan

Enough of your ill informed rantings.

The above is from an educated and informed person shown below:


Ayez Amir

Now, go tell your story to the Marines.

(Go) tell it/that to the marines. (American)
something that you say in order to tell someone that you do not believe what they have just said
 
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LurkerBaba

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I have seen one of my fathers Muslim colleague was reluctant to any marriage proposals for his daughter with Ansari's and some others caste among Muslims"¦ This is a fact and still they deny that... the only difference is among Hindus we clearly accept the evil practice [nothing to do with religion] where as among Muslims they deny it existence"¦
Coincidentally, Ambedkar wrote the same thing:

The existence of these evils among the Muslims is distressing enough. But far more distressing is the fact that there is no organized movement of social reform among the Musalmans of India on a scale sufficient to bring about their eradication. The Hindus have their social evils. But there is this relieving feature about them—namely, that some of them are conscious of their existence, and a few of them are actively agitating for their removal. The Muslims, on the other hand, do not realize that they are evils, and consequently do not agitate for their removal. Indeed, they oppose any change in their existing practices.
Ambedkar - Columbia
 

Ray

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Note how he also uses caste

Janjua (Rajput)

He does not shy away from reality as some ostriches who dwell on imagined grandeur!

My family history indicates that we are descender of the Sun.

That makes me the cousin of the King of Nepal (the last one) and the Emperors of Japan!

Agree on that?

If so, please kowtow!
 
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Ray

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The existence of these evils among the Muslims is distressing enough. But far more distressing is the fact that there is no organized movement of social reform among the Musalmans of India on a scale sufficient to bring about their eradication. The Hindus have their social evils. But there is this relieving feature about them—namely, that some of them are conscious of their existence, and a few of them are actively agitating for their removal. The Muslims, on the other hand, do not realize that they are evils, and consequently do not agitate for their removal. Indeed, they oppose any change in their existing practices.
Thanks Lurker.

Just the same thing what I was trying to tell Farhan.

Maybe being a Mahar myself, Ambedkar was at the back of my mind!
 

bose

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if so is the case than why even Great People like lord ram and krishna didnt eat through the hands of shudras?
I think you are trolling big time here... please desist from doing so... you have no idea what you are writing...

Will it be proper someone put question marks on your prophet?? put silly question marks on him based on silly arguments?? Will you like it ??

Hinduism has attracted mankind for 1000 of years "¦ some say it 5000 years"¦ do you think it would have survived if it had made difference among people??

I would request you not TO GET INTO THE ACT OF JUDGING RELIGIONS"¦ BE IT HINDUISM OR ANY OTHER BECAUSE YOU KNOW NOTHING OF HINDUISM"¦

in the rest of religion they are man made but in hinduism they are mentioned in the religious text.

i will post from official hinduism religious books tonight
Can you tell me what is an official Hindu religious book ??

can you show me in Geeta the holy text book of Hindus any such mention ???
 
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rock127

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Let us not discuss Islam because I can show enough of anomalies and double talk!

I am not here to insult any religion!
Yeah he would start crying if we started opening the de facto book of Islam which is no less than a killing and hate manual.
 
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