Blackwater
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2007 is old , In 2012 cencus 50% pakis under poverty level. stop being a ostrich
I am a Pakistani Indian
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caste system doesnt exist in the sense like india.in which one cant even get closer to the untouchable.
here in pakistanis the untouchable as per official sources are less than 2 millions while in india 57% of total population..since i have heard that brahmins are very less in population in india
caste system here exist like punjabi,pashtuns,sindhi and than sub tribe/caste in the major caste.
but this doesnt mean we cant touch the other caste follower like in india
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categories like tribes,castes etc are OK
but officially putting them as shurdas and untouchable is really disguisting.
unlike hinduism in Islam Nothing as caste system exist.
even if a untouchable follower of Hinduism accept ISLAM..he will be regarded equal to the rest of muslims
For more detail Read About Bilal R.A
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Caste system exists in Pakistan.
In India it is controlled and punishable.
In Pakistan, the feudal system permits it with regal disdain!
And no law!
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You haven't seen the video I appended and it is from a Pakistan source!
It is better to face the truth as it is done in India, rather than act as pure as the snow of Mount Etna when below the surface it is filthy and foul!
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Re "Pakistan Has Differences of Clans, Not Castes" by Lubna Suhail (letter, Nov. 17):
The caste system in South Asia has a long history and various forms. Will Durant discussed this in the first volume of "The Story of Civilization." Aryans defined a caste system based on "verma" or color.
Native Indians, mainly Dravanian and Najas, adopted the caste system with a modification based on profession. This professional caste system was "jati," or by birth.
"The man who is good by birth becomes low by low association, but who is low by birth can't become high by high association" is the principle described in Manu, a Hindu scripture.
Pakistanis share the same cultural roots. In Pakistan the caste system is based on "jati," or birth. Castes are based on the profession in the community. I was told the following caste order by my grandmother:
Zamindar, or landowner, is the highest; then lohar-thrukkhan, or blacksmith-carpenter; then poly, or weaver; mochi, or cobbler; meerasi-naie, or entertainer-barber. In Pakistan, the equivalents of Hindu untouchables are chammar, chura and bhangi, or janitor. These people have separate plates and cups in all employee cafeterias. They are mainly Christian, although some are Hindus and Muslims.
The caste system, in its feudal origins, reflected the importance of professions and occupations for agricultural output. Blacksmith-carpenters were important because they produced tools for agriculture, thus their high status. Pakistan is predominantly an underdeveloped agricultural society. While the caste system has religious approval under Hinduism, it has no future in an industrializing Muslim society. In an industrial era, castes are replaced by classes.
The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has a clause for castes under the article "Schedule Castes." Castes are defined by birth, even if you change your profession from cobbler to surgeon.
To get rid of this stigma, a lot of so-called low-caste people migrate to cities, and there they change their castes. Usually, they try to link their ancestry to the prophet Mohammed (in Pakistan, ancestry is determined by male history), although the prophet Mohammed had no son to continue his life.
I received many letters from Pakistan in fall 1989 about a lohar, or blacksmith, who was riddled with more than 80 AK-47 bullets in Taien village in the Poonch District of Jammu and Kashmir because he married a higher caste woman. Later, the woman was also killed because society would not accept her. I believe that Lubna Suhail must know well about such a caste system in Pakistan. It is common practice in Pakistan to hide or deny bad things from foreigners because they bring a bad name to the prestige of the country.
But the suffering that is based on the caste system is worse than the bad name. JAHANGIR AHMAD SATTI Detroit, Nov. 19, 1990
Pakistan Certainly Has a Caste System - NYTimes.com
The caste system in South Asia has a long history and various forms. Will Durant discussed this in the first volume of "The Story of Civilization." Aryans defined a caste system based on "verma" or color.
Native Indians, mainly Dravanian and Najas, adopted the caste system with a modification based on profession. This professional caste system was "jati," or by birth.
"The man who is good by birth becomes low by low association, but who is low by birth can't become high by high association" is the principle described in Manu, a Hindu scripture.
Pakistanis share the same cultural roots. In Pakistan the caste system is based on "jati," or birth. Castes are based on the profession in the community. I was told the following caste order by my grandmother:
Zamindar, or landowner, is the highest; then lohar-thrukkhan, or blacksmith-carpenter; then poly, or weaver; mochi, or cobbler; meerasi-naie, or entertainer-barber. In Pakistan, the equivalents of Hindu untouchables are chammar, chura and bhangi, or janitor. These people have separate plates and cups in all employee cafeterias. They are mainly Christian, although some are Hindus and Muslims.
The caste system, in its feudal origins, reflected the importance of professions and occupations for agricultural output. Blacksmith-carpenters were important because they produced tools for agriculture, thus their high status. Pakistan is predominantly an underdeveloped agricultural society. While the caste system has religious approval under Hinduism, it has no future in an industrializing Muslim society. In an industrial era, castes are replaced by classes.
The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has a clause for castes under the article "Schedule Castes." Castes are defined by birth, even if you change your profession from cobbler to surgeon.
To get rid of this stigma, a lot of so-called low-caste people migrate to cities, and there they change their castes. Usually, they try to link their ancestry to the prophet Mohammed (in Pakistan, ancestry is determined by male history), although the prophet Mohammed had no son to continue his life.
I received many letters from Pakistan in fall 1989 about a lohar, or blacksmith, who was riddled with more than 80 AK-47 bullets in Taien village in the Poonch District of Jammu and Kashmir because he married a higher caste woman. Later, the woman was also killed because society would not accept her. I believe that Lubna Suhail must know well about such a caste system in Pakistan. It is common practice in Pakistan to hide or deny bad things from foreigners because they bring a bad name to the prestige of the country.
But the suffering that is based on the caste system is worse than the bad name. JAHANGIR AHMAD SATTI Detroit, Nov. 19, 1990
Pakistan Certainly Has a Caste System - NYTimes.com
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Shia-Sunni is the de-facto Caste System in Islam.
Actually Shia-Sunni Caste System 10 times worse than the Hindu Caste System as Sunni's are butchering Shias at will.
Add Ahmediya,Sufis as well who live in fear of getting killed each day.
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feudal system is quite different.it does exist in the backward region of pakistan with very less literacy rate and poverty
Feudal sysem cant be compared with Caste system like india./
Instead of finding the problem in Pakistan you should rather accept that caste system does exist in India and you need to end this as soon as possible
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i guess this should end the debate
Ek hi saf mein khade ho gaye mahmud-o-Ayaz,
No koi banda raha aur no koi banda nawaz
if one is able to understand this and know about mahmud and ayaz
Ek hi saf mein khade ho gaye mahmud-o-Ayaz,
No koi banda raha aur no koi banda nawaz
if one is able to understand this and know about mahmud and ayaz
bose
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The proof of caste system in place among Muslims are in the form of Shia, Sunni & Ahmadi etc... You call them by different name...
I have also seen a case where Muslim with Syed surname are not open to marriage to muslims with surnames like Ansari's who were considered as lower caste among muslims...
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caste system based on profession?
I do agree the above exist but how can one include this into caste.
if so is the case than why pakistan doesnt have engineers and doctor caste as well?
this is complete BS.the person who has written this has never been to Pakistan ever.
Illusive
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they are sect not caste..OMG
Please read about sunni and shia.,,
If one brother is shia and the other is sunni than will you term them as 2 brothers with different caste?
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Castes
Dialogue
Compiled by: Ayesha Hassan
The following discussion has been taken from the General Discussion Forum of Studying Islam (Studying-Islam | Online Islamic education on Islamic Beliefs, Quran, Hadith & Sunnah), one of our sister sites. While Razi Allah is the moderator of this discussion, Ayesha Hassan has compiled it for publication in the journal (Editor).
Every society has its own culture—a distinction that differentiates it from other societies. Although Islam plays the most important role in developing the ideological and practical infrastructure of all Muslim societies, each can be recognized distinctly because of their peculiar characteristics influenced by the atmosphere, the environment, and the geography etc of their specific regions. Traditional practices, seen in this perspective, undeniably hold immense value yet we need to be careful that we do not revere an inherent practice merely on the basis that it is a tradition. The following discussion probes into the notion of 'The Caste System', particularly characteristic of the East, and endeavours to find out if it is against the spirit of Islam.
Angeln: Caste system is very common in some countries e.g. Pakistan. Are castes acceptable in Islam? Where are they mentioned?
Tariq Hashmi: Classification of mankind in different branches is endorsed both by reason and revelation. Not only does the Qur'Än allude to this segregation, it also hints towards the basic acumen of the phenomenon. It says: 'O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and have made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is all-knowing, all-aware.' (49:13)]
Ayesha: Having stated the Qur'Änic verse, it is imperative to appreciate that castes should play absolutely no role in social relationships.
Ronnie: Although the Qur'Än has given us a sense of various people with differing backgrounds, I cannot agree that the caste system is merely a simple classification of human groups. Actually, the caste system is an erroneous concept that places certain groups of people as superior and inferior. While the Qur'Än has posed the beauty in our differences it has also reminded us that no one is better than another except through their works. Castes, on the other hand, are a classification for repression and disparagement. If this is the case then there seems to be no plausible harmony between castes and what the Qur'Än has stated.
Razi Allah: Since you have referred particularly to the prevalent caste system in Pakistan, I can present some observations from my experience. While it is true that there is nothing wrong in the caste system for the purpose of 'knowing one another', people tend to harbor certain preconceived notions, usually negative, about a particular caste, and judge the entire group accordingly with a naive and mock disregard for individual differences. This seems pervasive even among the educated people.
There are certain practices related to marriage and intermingling, based on the caste system, that breed inequality, intolerance and an air of superiority. Some of the vilest aspects of Hindu caste system are well-entrenched within the Muslim Pakistani society. Ordinarily, one will find people justifying every act via a convenient route i.e. Islam. Just as Islam has allowed every man to marry four women, please no ifs and buts, Islam also allows us to divide ourselves into castes, no ifs and buts.
Ronnie: Indeed there is no prohibition in dividing ourselves. That does not seem to be the point of contention. The nature of some of these castes is contrary to Islamic principles. Not only are they used to segregate people based on prejudice and hatred but they are also contrary to the Islamic concept of equality of humanity. The only division is that of the righteous and the evil doer. The Children of Israel created such a caste; they elevated themselves and cast out the world. Division is not evil or wrong but as implemented in most castes is without a doubt contrary to the Truth.
Razi Allah: My last statement was a sarcasm directed at the attitude that chooses to overlook the spirit behind Islamic directives. Just as there is wisdom behind directives related to polygamy, so is there wisdom in the division of people in nations and tribes. The attitude of summoning such verses of the Qur'Än at convenience, disregarding the real purpose and spirit i.e. no ifs and buts accepted was what I was sardonically referring to.
Monthly Renaissance - Content
Dialogue
Compiled by: Ayesha Hassan
The following discussion has been taken from the General Discussion Forum of Studying Islam (Studying-Islam | Online Islamic education on Islamic Beliefs, Quran, Hadith & Sunnah), one of our sister sites. While Razi Allah is the moderator of this discussion, Ayesha Hassan has compiled it for publication in the journal (Editor).
Every society has its own culture—a distinction that differentiates it from other societies. Although Islam plays the most important role in developing the ideological and practical infrastructure of all Muslim societies, each can be recognized distinctly because of their peculiar characteristics influenced by the atmosphere, the environment, and the geography etc of their specific regions. Traditional practices, seen in this perspective, undeniably hold immense value yet we need to be careful that we do not revere an inherent practice merely on the basis that it is a tradition. The following discussion probes into the notion of 'The Caste System', particularly characteristic of the East, and endeavours to find out if it is against the spirit of Islam.
Angeln: Caste system is very common in some countries e.g. Pakistan. Are castes acceptable in Islam? Where are they mentioned?
Tariq Hashmi: Classification of mankind in different branches is endorsed both by reason and revelation. Not only does the Qur'Än allude to this segregation, it also hints towards the basic acumen of the phenomenon. It says: 'O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and have made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is all-knowing, all-aware.' (49:13)]
Ayesha: Having stated the Qur'Änic verse, it is imperative to appreciate that castes should play absolutely no role in social relationships.
Ronnie: Although the Qur'Än has given us a sense of various people with differing backgrounds, I cannot agree that the caste system is merely a simple classification of human groups. Actually, the caste system is an erroneous concept that places certain groups of people as superior and inferior. While the Qur'Än has posed the beauty in our differences it has also reminded us that no one is better than another except through their works. Castes, on the other hand, are a classification for repression and disparagement. If this is the case then there seems to be no plausible harmony between castes and what the Qur'Än has stated.
Razi Allah: Since you have referred particularly to the prevalent caste system in Pakistan, I can present some observations from my experience. While it is true that there is nothing wrong in the caste system for the purpose of 'knowing one another', people tend to harbor certain preconceived notions, usually negative, about a particular caste, and judge the entire group accordingly with a naive and mock disregard for individual differences. This seems pervasive even among the educated people.
There are certain practices related to marriage and intermingling, based on the caste system, that breed inequality, intolerance and an air of superiority. Some of the vilest aspects of Hindu caste system are well-entrenched within the Muslim Pakistani society. Ordinarily, one will find people justifying every act via a convenient route i.e. Islam. Just as Islam has allowed every man to marry four women, please no ifs and buts, Islam also allows us to divide ourselves into castes, no ifs and buts.
Ronnie: Indeed there is no prohibition in dividing ourselves. That does not seem to be the point of contention. The nature of some of these castes is contrary to Islamic principles. Not only are they used to segregate people based on prejudice and hatred but they are also contrary to the Islamic concept of equality of humanity. The only division is that of the righteous and the evil doer. The Children of Israel created such a caste; they elevated themselves and cast out the world. Division is not evil or wrong but as implemented in most castes is without a doubt contrary to the Truth.
Razi Allah: My last statement was a sarcasm directed at the attitude that chooses to overlook the spirit behind Islamic directives. Just as there is wisdom behind directives related to polygamy, so is there wisdom in the division of people in nations and tribes. The attitude of summoning such verses of the Qur'Än at convenience, disregarding the real purpose and spirit i.e. no ifs and buts accepted was what I was sardonically referring to.
Monthly Renaissance - Content
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What do you think the HIndu caste is all about?
Profession and a father to son issue so that whatever is the profession, it is honed to a fine art by the knowledge gained by experience by each generation.
Why do you think Bliawal is a politician and the Mian Nawaz's?
]
What do you think the masons, lohars and bricklayers are all about?
And the Hakims?
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you just cant term this as caste system
these westerns dont know anything.they have confused pakistan for india.
Pashtuns marriages are usually inter marriage and it is quite rare to see a pashtun getting married with Punjabi or sindhi.but this is the culture of pashtuns one cant put this into india kind of caste system
Indian caste system is the most diversed as well as the worst caste system to exist on earth
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upper-caste Muslims (Syeds, Sheikhs and Pathans) and on the other side live the lower-caste Muslims (Ansaris, Dhunias and Raains).
If indeed there were no castes why have Shieks, Sayyids etc and Ansaris and others.
What is so great about being descendant of the Prophet?
Are the descendants of the Prophet some super duper chaps compared to others that they require differentiation?
If indeed, there was no caste (euphemism may call it class, which is the same). in Islam, why the differentiation and the awe of being descendants of the Prophet?
A Prophet was a simply a man, who gave an idea about Life!
Nothing more and nothing less!
Nothing that he did wherein he claimed to be something way out or a son of God. He just was a Messenger!
so, why the song and dance about being Syeds Shieks and look down on Ansaris and so on.
If there is no caste, why divide the Muslims into segments?
If indeed there were no castes why have Shieks, Sayyids etc and Ansaris and others.
What is so great about being descendant of the Prophet?
Are the descendants of the Prophet some super duper chaps compared to others that they require differentiation?
If indeed, there was no caste (euphemism may call it class, which is the same). in Islam, why the differentiation and the awe of being descendants of the Prophet?
A Prophet was a simply a man, who gave an idea about Life!
Nothing more and nothing less!
Nothing that he did wherein he claimed to be something way out or a son of God. He just was a Messenger!
so, why the song and dance about being Syeds Shieks and look down on Ansaris and so on.
If there is no caste, why divide the Muslims into segments?
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