Is that why per capita GDP of India is higher than Pakistans?
I am a Pakistani Indian
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Yes, they have taken care of all the problems of HIndus, Christians, Shias and Ahmadiyas in Pakistan. It is their final solution.
LordOfTheUnderworlds
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Pakistan itself was created by and for upper castes : the various Ashraf castes especially from north-central India, and feudal lords of north-west India; using a selfish and ambitious rajput convert advocate Jinnah. Pakistan was first wet-dreamed by a dementic poet Iqbal born in converted Kashmiri Pundit family (or did he claim barbaric lineage?) and Pakistan's ideological father is often claimed by some people to be the upper caste Sir Syed .
Of course, all this with blessings of their British masters.
The kameen lower castes were and are supposed to just work as slaves and war fodder, so that upper castes can continue their ayyashi in their ivory towers, pretending that other people don't even exist.
That is why 50% of Pakistanis are illiterate and selling their children for 500 rupees per month.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/pakistan/49338-forced-child-labor-pakistan.html
Blackwater
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mama, if u compare % of population. latest UN figure shows 50% pakis under poverty level. you can not compare 18 crore with 120 crore
stop being ostrich and something for you, pls read
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Blackwater
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Yeah, Pakistanis are much more well off on that count! Look at the per capita blasts!! They have walloped India by a whopping margin!!you forget phaaji ,pakis has more bomb blasting than india
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That is right.,When something good happens in India they try to evoke "South Asian" pride. Otherwise, its back to abusing the evil yindoos
btw Pakteahouse is a cesspool of self-styled Pakistani 'liberals'. In one article they called Gandhi a Hindutvadi and blamed him for communalizing politics in the entire Subcontinent !
Pak teahouse is a great instrument for disinformation!
I believe in the adage - let sleeping dogs lie.
Since there is Pakistan, let them be what they are and what they want to be.
There is no way they can be Pakistani Indians since most of them think they are descendants of the camel race!
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@Farhan
Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room
by
Shahbano Aliani
A pregnant woman from a remote rural village in Tharparkar goes to a private hospital in Hyderabad. The medical staff refuse to attend to her, saying they do not want to pollute their instruments and dirty their hands. Feeling humiliated and angry, she returns to her village without having received the services she needed.
A 20 year old woman from Peshawar is brutally murdered by her brothers and father for attempting to marry outside the biradari and bringing shame to the family honour.
A young Kolhi girl is abducted while working in the cotton fields of a landlord outside Mirpurkhas. She is forced to convert to Islam and marry her abductor. The police refuse to register a case and her family is advised to remain silent for the sake of their own safety.
In a village in Southern Punjab, a young boy from a "lower-caste" is accused of dishonouring the "high caste" tribe by having an affair with one of their women. The village panchayat orders the gang rape of the boy's sister by the "high caste' men so that they may restore the honour of their tribe.
These stories have a familiar ring. Variants occur with alarming regularity in Pakistan; some covered by the media, but most covered up by the silence, fear and helplessness of the victims; and the indifference of the rest of society.
What do these stories have in common? Gender, surely; all the victims are women. But there is another common thread as well. In the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan", both Dalit Hindu and Muslim women are subject to humiliation, control and violence because of their gender as well as their caste.
Most activists, development workers and policy makers may not immediately recognize caste as an important social justice and social policy issue, especially for Muslims in the country. However, almost everyone in Pakistan will readily admit that caste or biradari, quom, zaat or jaat is an important part of social identity, especially in the rural areas. Most adults will have encountered questions about their caste or zaat when in a new village or town. Many have married in their own caste, never having considered the option of marrying outside their Biradari, Quom or Zaat. Almost everyone will have heard or used derogatory references to caste such as Bhangi (janitor). As Haris Gazdar argues, "In fact, the kinship group, known variously as zaat, biraderi and quom in different parts of the country, remains a key - perhaps the key - dimension of economic, social and political interaction." A contesting formulation has been presented by Arif Hasan through his writings on social change (see, for example, "The Silent Revolution"). His view is supported by Akbar Zaidi (though his take on feudalism is a bit radical) and Raza Ali (through his work on Urbanization). The main argument is that because of technological changes (e.g. tractors in fields and Suzuki pickups on farm-to-market roads), traditional social structures are becoming weaker; a new class of middlemen has emerged that controls the market; urbanization is gradually embracing modernity. As far as I understand, both Arif Hasan and Haris Gazdar are partly correct: things are changing (albeit slowly) but the coercive structures are still there.
When questioned, however, if caste is a problem, most Pakistanis will disagree. Many will argue, quite heatedly, that it's a problem only for Hindus across the border. Using circular reasoning, they will insist that the caste-system is not Islamic and since the majority of us are Muslims, therefore, there is no caste problem in Pakistan. The caste system practiced by the Muslims of north India is based on three tiers: ashraaf, ajlaaf and arzal.
Public denial is so ingrained and widespread that there is no official legislation that acknowledges and addresses caste-based discrimination. Inadequate legislation, yes. Non-existent, no. After the partition of British India in 1947, Pakistan had inherited the list of Scheduled Castes and Tribes, and the constitution of Pakistan (like the 1935 constitution) forbids discrimination on the basis of caste. Beyond lip service, there was a 6% quota in government jobs for scheduled castes from 1948 to 1998. This was sadly never fully utilized. However, we do not have progressive legislation (like they have in India; though they have issues of their own). And apart from a few articles and studies (many of the recent ones referred to in this paper), there is virtually no documentation and data on "lower caste" peoples, including Dalit Hindus in Pakistan.
In my own work, development workers and researchers have argued that caste is not relevant to either development (poverty alleviation) or to research on social and economic issues. My colleagues, who work in districts with about 40% – 50% Hindus (the majority of them Dalit) have insisted that we cannot include caste in survey questionnaires, arguing that (1) we will get so many castes that the data will be difficult to handle, or (2) we will be accused of working for a specific caste. This resistance has been expressed by both Hindus and Muslims, though more notably by Muslim colleagues. When I have included caste in questionnaires, despite heated arguments, the indicator has been removed in final research instruments by the managers in charge of overseeing the research. I think that some clarification is needed here. The question on caste was included in the PEWC baseline survey and during tabulation we found that we had a very long list of responses because many respondents had mentioned their subcastes instead of caste. For many of these subcastes, some of us didn't know their castes. A list of castes and subcastes from responses was given to CRU staff for preparing a proper list. This was not done and at some point in time we decided to go ahead without it. It should also be noted that most of the non-Muslim respondents in Tharparkar belonged to the Meghar community as our social mobilisers knew them through their PDCs, etc. I should also stress that the baseline wasn't looking at the coorelation between caste and child work — we could have done that but then our methodology would have been different: propotionate sample for various castes instead of settlements.
It appears that caste is the elephant in the room. Everyone knows its there, but no one wants to talk about it, let alone address. As Haris Gazdar puts it, "The public silencing on caste contrasts with an obsession with it in private dealings and transactions."
The Pakistani caste system has developed along lines similar to those in India. Syeds (also known as Shahs in Sindh) claim to be the descendants of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) and are the highest caste in most places. In Punjab, the Ranas (Rajpoots), Chaudhurys and Maliks are considered higher caste, whereas the Kammis (workers), Chuhras ("untouchable" sweepers who are mostly Christian), Mussali (Muslim shaikh - menial workers) and Miraasi (musicians) are considered lower caste. In the NWFP, "lower castes" are referred to as Neech Zaat (low caste) and Badnasal (of bad lineage). In Balochistan the "lower castes" include Ghulams (slaves), Lohris (musicians), and Lachhis (Dalits). In Sindh, "high-caste" Muslims, in addition to Shahs and Syeds, include the Akhunds, Effendis, Soomros, Talpurs, and Pirs. Hajjams (barbers), Dhobis (washers), Kumbhars (potters), Maachis/ Mallahs (fisherfolk) and Bhajeer (Dalit converts to Islam) are considered "low caste". In places like Swat, the Quom system is comparative to the Hindu caste system. Here, groups are divided rigidly according to occupation. Quoms do not intermarry or live together. The fact that caste is an important social identity for Pakistani Muslims is reinforced in matchmaking/ marriage services, where caste is one of the key attributes mentioned by prospective brides and grooms. Caste based marriage preferences and associations are documented amongst Pakistanis in the Diaspora, especially in the UK.
Like in India and Nepal, "lower caste" Hindus and Muslims are excluded and persecuted by "upper castes", especially men. According to the Joint NGO report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) in February 2009, Pakistan is one of the few countries of the world where slavery still exists in the form of bonded labour. Most bonded labourers in Pakistan are the adults and children of Dalit and lower caste Muslim and Christian families.
The denial of the "caste problem" starts with statistics. The most recent 1998 census estimates the number of Dalit Hindus at just above 300,000; a minority amongst the estimated 2 million Pakistani Hindus. Dalit leaders and activists, including 5 former legislators estimate the figure to be closer to 2 million. They believe that both the "upper caste" Hindus and the Pakistani government do not want to recognize the actual numbers so no special legislation or programmes have to be designed to address the issues of Dalits and discrimination against them.
For the most part, Dalits are socially excluded, most of them forced to live on the outskirts of towns and villages or confined to their own paras or villages. Government and even NGOs working in their areas will often bypass Bheel and Kohli paras in Tharparkar altogether. Due to poverty and lack of assets, they are forced to take up farm and cleaning work that no one else will do; and excluded from community events such as weddings. If they are invited, they have to eat out of separate utensils. They are denied essential social services and equal treatment in public spaces, humiliated in hospitals, public buses and schools. Much of the land they have lived on for centuries belongs to the state; they have no legal claim to it.
Undoubtedly, apart from their children perhaps, Dalit women are one of the poorest and most vulnerable and marginalized group of individuals in the country. They are politically and socially excluded from the mainstream and vulnerable to discrimination and violence due to their gender as well as their caste.
According to a Thari colleague, Kohli women are raped by men of higher castes (Hindus and Muslims) in Tharparkar, either while they work in the fields or when they are out in the desert herding livestock and hunting/ gathering. Kohli women are considered sub-human by the larger society, so any act of sexual or physical violence against them is not noteworthy. It is just a fact of life. The study of 750 Dalit households, Long Behind Schedule, reports that many Dalit women have been raped or gang raped by Muslim men. Most of these rapes are unreported for fear of reprisal from the police and communities of the perpetrators.
There are frequent reports in the print media of the abduction, forced conversion and marriages of Hindu girls and young women. A Daily Dawn June 2006 editorial claims that "Young Hindu women from both the upper caste and Dalit families have been abducted with increasing frequency in recent years." According to the editorial, in many cases when the parents have gone to the police, they have been informed that the girl has "eloped with their Muslim friend", converted to Islam and married him. Some of the girls have later declared in court that they had converted of their own free will, though it is quite likely that they were forced to make these declarations under duress. The editorial goes on to speculate that in at least one case the "marriage" has ended in divorce and the girl has been "passed on" to another man. The International Dalit Solidarity Network (IDSN)'s Fact Sheet Pakistan argues that when such marriages end in divorce, the young women are left to fend for themselves on the streets.
Haris Gazdar reports violence against Christian, Muslim and Hindu "low caste" women across the country:
We documented cases across the country – in Peshawar, Faisalabad, Quetta and Sanghar - of rapes perpetrated against "low-caste" women from chuhra, mussali, lachhi and scheduled caste Hindu communities respectively. The perpetrators were all well known and there was a feeling that they committed these crimes because they could get away with it, knowing full well that the victims were socially and politi-cally weak. In fact, these rapes were only the most extreme instances of sexual violation suffered by the marginalised groups. In the language of the dominant groups the "low castes" had no honour, and certainly no honour that could be defended. The Khans in Peshawar, who regarded them selves as the racially pure descendents of 11th century Pashtun invader tribes from Afghanistan thought that the women of their "hamsayas" (literally neighbours, but used as a euphemism for dependent service castes) such as the Toorkhail (literally "black lineage") and "kisabgars" (menials) were of lax social morals. In any case the hamsaya men, unlike the "pure" Pashtuns, would not/could not protest openly if their women did contract illicit liaisons with other men.
Mukhtaran Mai has become famous for her courageous public campaign for justice. Mai suffered the brutal and male-community sanctioned gang rape because her young brother was accused of speaking to a "higher caste" woman in the village. What is often reported, but never analyzed is the fact that Mai and her brother are from a "lower caste" than the perpetrators of her rape.
Another case of caste-based patriarchal violence is the story of Ghazala Shaheen, a "low caste", but highly educated, Muslim woman from Multan who was abducted along with her mother and gang raped. Ghazala Shaheen's uncle had allegedly eloped with a "high caste" woman of the perpetrator's family. Ghazala Shaheen was selected for the gang-rape by the "upper caste" tribesmen for her uncle's crime and for the crime of daring to educate herself.
Embedded in the stories of these women being gang-raped, killed, paraded naked in the streets, abducted, and forcibly converted, is the old, ugly story of caste. Except for some intrepid researchers and a handful of Dalit activists, everyone else in Pakistan is silent on the issue.
At a time of increased militarization and polarization, can we afford to continue to ignore such a pervasive and divisive issue that makes women even more vulnerable to violence, oppression and discrimination? Caste is a women's issue and perhaps its time for South Asian feminists in Pakistan to start speaking up about it.
The author works with the Thardeep Rural Development Programme and is based in Karachi, Pakistan.
Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room | Red Diary
Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room
by
Shahbano Aliani
A pregnant woman from a remote rural village in Tharparkar goes to a private hospital in Hyderabad. The medical staff refuse to attend to her, saying they do not want to pollute their instruments and dirty their hands. Feeling humiliated and angry, she returns to her village without having received the services she needed.
A 20 year old woman from Peshawar is brutally murdered by her brothers and father for attempting to marry outside the biradari and bringing shame to the family honour.
A young Kolhi girl is abducted while working in the cotton fields of a landlord outside Mirpurkhas. She is forced to convert to Islam and marry her abductor. The police refuse to register a case and her family is advised to remain silent for the sake of their own safety.
In a village in Southern Punjab, a young boy from a "lower-caste" is accused of dishonouring the "high caste" tribe by having an affair with one of their women. The village panchayat orders the gang rape of the boy's sister by the "high caste' men so that they may restore the honour of their tribe.
These stories have a familiar ring. Variants occur with alarming regularity in Pakistan; some covered by the media, but most covered up by the silence, fear and helplessness of the victims; and the indifference of the rest of society.
What do these stories have in common? Gender, surely; all the victims are women. But there is another common thread as well. In the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan", both Dalit Hindu and Muslim women are subject to humiliation, control and violence because of their gender as well as their caste.
Most activists, development workers and policy makers may not immediately recognize caste as an important social justice and social policy issue, especially for Muslims in the country. However, almost everyone in Pakistan will readily admit that caste or biradari, quom, zaat or jaat is an important part of social identity, especially in the rural areas. Most adults will have encountered questions about their caste or zaat when in a new village or town. Many have married in their own caste, never having considered the option of marrying outside their Biradari, Quom or Zaat. Almost everyone will have heard or used derogatory references to caste such as Bhangi (janitor). As Haris Gazdar argues, "In fact, the kinship group, known variously as zaat, biraderi and quom in different parts of the country, remains a key - perhaps the key - dimension of economic, social and political interaction." A contesting formulation has been presented by Arif Hasan through his writings on social change (see, for example, "The Silent Revolution"). His view is supported by Akbar Zaidi (though his take on feudalism is a bit radical) and Raza Ali (through his work on Urbanization). The main argument is that because of technological changes (e.g. tractors in fields and Suzuki pickups on farm-to-market roads), traditional social structures are becoming weaker; a new class of middlemen has emerged that controls the market; urbanization is gradually embracing modernity. As far as I understand, both Arif Hasan and Haris Gazdar are partly correct: things are changing (albeit slowly) but the coercive structures are still there.
When questioned, however, if caste is a problem, most Pakistanis will disagree. Many will argue, quite heatedly, that it's a problem only for Hindus across the border. Using circular reasoning, they will insist that the caste-system is not Islamic and since the majority of us are Muslims, therefore, there is no caste problem in Pakistan. The caste system practiced by the Muslims of north India is based on three tiers: ashraaf, ajlaaf and arzal.
Public denial is so ingrained and widespread that there is no official legislation that acknowledges and addresses caste-based discrimination. Inadequate legislation, yes. Non-existent, no. After the partition of British India in 1947, Pakistan had inherited the list of Scheduled Castes and Tribes, and the constitution of Pakistan (like the 1935 constitution) forbids discrimination on the basis of caste. Beyond lip service, there was a 6% quota in government jobs for scheduled castes from 1948 to 1998. This was sadly never fully utilized. However, we do not have progressive legislation (like they have in India; though they have issues of their own). And apart from a few articles and studies (many of the recent ones referred to in this paper), there is virtually no documentation and data on "lower caste" peoples, including Dalit Hindus in Pakistan.
In my own work, development workers and researchers have argued that caste is not relevant to either development (poverty alleviation) or to research on social and economic issues. My colleagues, who work in districts with about 40% – 50% Hindus (the majority of them Dalit) have insisted that we cannot include caste in survey questionnaires, arguing that (1) we will get so many castes that the data will be difficult to handle, or (2) we will be accused of working for a specific caste. This resistance has been expressed by both Hindus and Muslims, though more notably by Muslim colleagues. When I have included caste in questionnaires, despite heated arguments, the indicator has been removed in final research instruments by the managers in charge of overseeing the research. I think that some clarification is needed here. The question on caste was included in the PEWC baseline survey and during tabulation we found that we had a very long list of responses because many respondents had mentioned their subcastes instead of caste. For many of these subcastes, some of us didn't know their castes. A list of castes and subcastes from responses was given to CRU staff for preparing a proper list. This was not done and at some point in time we decided to go ahead without it. It should also be noted that most of the non-Muslim respondents in Tharparkar belonged to the Meghar community as our social mobilisers knew them through their PDCs, etc. I should also stress that the baseline wasn't looking at the coorelation between caste and child work — we could have done that but then our methodology would have been different: propotionate sample for various castes instead of settlements.
It appears that caste is the elephant in the room. Everyone knows its there, but no one wants to talk about it, let alone address. As Haris Gazdar puts it, "The public silencing on caste contrasts with an obsession with it in private dealings and transactions."
The Pakistani caste system has developed along lines similar to those in India. Syeds (also known as Shahs in Sindh) claim to be the descendants of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) and are the highest caste in most places. In Punjab, the Ranas (Rajpoots), Chaudhurys and Maliks are considered higher caste, whereas the Kammis (workers), Chuhras ("untouchable" sweepers who are mostly Christian), Mussali (Muslim shaikh - menial workers) and Miraasi (musicians) are considered lower caste. In the NWFP, "lower castes" are referred to as Neech Zaat (low caste) and Badnasal (of bad lineage). In Balochistan the "lower castes" include Ghulams (slaves), Lohris (musicians), and Lachhis (Dalits). In Sindh, "high-caste" Muslims, in addition to Shahs and Syeds, include the Akhunds, Effendis, Soomros, Talpurs, and Pirs. Hajjams (barbers), Dhobis (washers), Kumbhars (potters), Maachis/ Mallahs (fisherfolk) and Bhajeer (Dalit converts to Islam) are considered "low caste". In places like Swat, the Quom system is comparative to the Hindu caste system. Here, groups are divided rigidly according to occupation. Quoms do not intermarry or live together. The fact that caste is an important social identity for Pakistani Muslims is reinforced in matchmaking/ marriage services, where caste is one of the key attributes mentioned by prospective brides and grooms. Caste based marriage preferences and associations are documented amongst Pakistanis in the Diaspora, especially in the UK.
Like in India and Nepal, "lower caste" Hindus and Muslims are excluded and persecuted by "upper castes", especially men. According to the Joint NGO report submitted to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) in February 2009, Pakistan is one of the few countries of the world where slavery still exists in the form of bonded labour. Most bonded labourers in Pakistan are the adults and children of Dalit and lower caste Muslim and Christian families.
The denial of the "caste problem" starts with statistics. The most recent 1998 census estimates the number of Dalit Hindus at just above 300,000; a minority amongst the estimated 2 million Pakistani Hindus. Dalit leaders and activists, including 5 former legislators estimate the figure to be closer to 2 million. They believe that both the "upper caste" Hindus and the Pakistani government do not want to recognize the actual numbers so no special legislation or programmes have to be designed to address the issues of Dalits and discrimination against them.
For the most part, Dalits are socially excluded, most of them forced to live on the outskirts of towns and villages or confined to their own paras or villages. Government and even NGOs working in their areas will often bypass Bheel and Kohli paras in Tharparkar altogether. Due to poverty and lack of assets, they are forced to take up farm and cleaning work that no one else will do; and excluded from community events such as weddings. If they are invited, they have to eat out of separate utensils. They are denied essential social services and equal treatment in public spaces, humiliated in hospitals, public buses and schools. Much of the land they have lived on for centuries belongs to the state; they have no legal claim to it.
Undoubtedly, apart from their children perhaps, Dalit women are one of the poorest and most vulnerable and marginalized group of individuals in the country. They are politically and socially excluded from the mainstream and vulnerable to discrimination and violence due to their gender as well as their caste.
According to a Thari colleague, Kohli women are raped by men of higher castes (Hindus and Muslims) in Tharparkar, either while they work in the fields or when they are out in the desert herding livestock and hunting/ gathering. Kohli women are considered sub-human by the larger society, so any act of sexual or physical violence against them is not noteworthy. It is just a fact of life. The study of 750 Dalit households, Long Behind Schedule, reports that many Dalit women have been raped or gang raped by Muslim men. Most of these rapes are unreported for fear of reprisal from the police and communities of the perpetrators.
There are frequent reports in the print media of the abduction, forced conversion and marriages of Hindu girls and young women. A Daily Dawn June 2006 editorial claims that "Young Hindu women from both the upper caste and Dalit families have been abducted with increasing frequency in recent years." According to the editorial, in many cases when the parents have gone to the police, they have been informed that the girl has "eloped with their Muslim friend", converted to Islam and married him. Some of the girls have later declared in court that they had converted of their own free will, though it is quite likely that they were forced to make these declarations under duress. The editorial goes on to speculate that in at least one case the "marriage" has ended in divorce and the girl has been "passed on" to another man. The International Dalit Solidarity Network (IDSN)'s Fact Sheet Pakistan argues that when such marriages end in divorce, the young women are left to fend for themselves on the streets.
Haris Gazdar reports violence against Christian, Muslim and Hindu "low caste" women across the country:
We documented cases across the country – in Peshawar, Faisalabad, Quetta and Sanghar - of rapes perpetrated against "low-caste" women from chuhra, mussali, lachhi and scheduled caste Hindu communities respectively. The perpetrators were all well known and there was a feeling that they committed these crimes because they could get away with it, knowing full well that the victims were socially and politi-cally weak. In fact, these rapes were only the most extreme instances of sexual violation suffered by the marginalised groups. In the language of the dominant groups the "low castes" had no honour, and certainly no honour that could be defended. The Khans in Peshawar, who regarded them selves as the racially pure descendents of 11th century Pashtun invader tribes from Afghanistan thought that the women of their "hamsayas" (literally neighbours, but used as a euphemism for dependent service castes) such as the Toorkhail (literally "black lineage") and "kisabgars" (menials) were of lax social morals. In any case the hamsaya men, unlike the "pure" Pashtuns, would not/could not protest openly if their women did contract illicit liaisons with other men.
Mukhtaran Mai has become famous for her courageous public campaign for justice. Mai suffered the brutal and male-community sanctioned gang rape because her young brother was accused of speaking to a "higher caste" woman in the village. What is often reported, but never analyzed is the fact that Mai and her brother are from a "lower caste" than the perpetrators of her rape.
Another case of caste-based patriarchal violence is the story of Ghazala Shaheen, a "low caste", but highly educated, Muslim woman from Multan who was abducted along with her mother and gang raped. Ghazala Shaheen's uncle had allegedly eloped with a "high caste" woman of the perpetrator's family. Ghazala Shaheen was selected for the gang-rape by the "upper caste" tribesmen for her uncle's crime and for the crime of daring to educate herself.
Embedded in the stories of these women being gang-raped, killed, paraded naked in the streets, abducted, and forcibly converted, is the old, ugly story of caste. Except for some intrepid researchers and a handful of Dalit activists, everyone else in Pakistan is silent on the issue.
At a time of increased militarization and polarization, can we afford to continue to ignore such a pervasive and divisive issue that makes women even more vulnerable to violence, oppression and discrimination? Caste is a women's issue and perhaps its time for South Asian feminists in Pakistan to start speaking up about it.
The author works with the Thardeep Rural Development Programme and is based in Karachi, Pakistan.
Caste in Pakistan: The Elephant in the Room | Red Diary
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please care to check out the last few pages..and please read about the history of per capita in asia and check out which country had a higher per capita than india till 2008-09 or 6 decades
and the latest difference between pak and india per capita is less than 100USD.
Now you are jumping over the fact that since the past few years you have a higher per capita while we pakistanis had a higher and at certainly level even closer to twice but we never said so
As i said Ghareebo ki bhi kabhi Khuda sunn leta ha
Shaid tm ghareeb logo ki khuda ne sunn li abhi
NOTE:Billionaire factor if excluded from indian GDP..the per capita will drop to below bangladesh level
- Joined
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please care to check out the last few pages..and please read about the history of per capita in asia and check out which country had a higher per capita than india till 2008-09 or 6 decades
and the latest difference between pak and india per capita is less than 100USD.
Now you are jumping over the fact that since the past few years you have a higher per capita while we pakistanis had a higher and at certainly level even closer to twice but we never said so
As i said Ghareebo ki bhi kabhi Khuda sunn leta ha
Shaid tm ghareeb logo ki khuda ne sunn li abhi
NOTE:Billionaire factor if excluded from indian GDP..the per capita will drop to below bangladesh level
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@Farhan
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable's struggle
LAHORE: Sabir Arif, a student of finance and cost management in one of Lahore's private institutions lives in a hut made of wood, cloth and plastic sheets. His only source of income is the private tuitions he provides to others to keep his makeshift home intact.
The son of a daily wager, Sabir is not a typical victim of abject poverty in the city. Reminiscing about how he read Russian literature when he came across old story books while picking garbage in class seven, Sabir says his great challenge in life has been his caste – that he was born a Deendar Changar – Pakistan's version of the 'untouchables'.
Contrary to popular belief, caste in Pakistan has been a means of systematic discrimination. The lower castes here are Pakistan's downtrodden, including Massalis also known as Muslim Sheikhs, Choorahs who are majority Christian and Chamars or Changars who are also called Deendars if they practice Islam. In Punjab and Sindh these include the scheduled Hindu castes that serve as farm workers and bonded laborers.
Sabir admits that he faces greater discrimination than most of his "biradari" because he refused to stick to what is the generally acceptable position and career path of his caste. Living in the slums, and being considered lowest of the low in a society fixated on high and low birth, Sabir was always at the periphery, but his decision to pursue education did not sit well with the local community.
Muhammad Arif, his father who gets labor jobs with the help of his donkey cart, says he struggled with the decision of sending his children to school, "People of our biradari said that education was not for our people, that I should make Sabir help me with daily work, but I decided against it and have not sent my younger children to work as live-in domestic helpers like others in our community or forced them into working only."
Discouraged, discriminated against and lacking any political identity, the city is now Sabir's home, as it is easier for people of lower castes to access schooling and get odd jobs in urban hubs as compared to rural settings, where discrimination is far higher.
Abdul Rasheed Dholka, a political activist of Mazdoor Kissan Party in Sargodha has worked with lower caste farm workers, and says that in rare cases when young men from these communities are hired as peons or clerks, they try to cut off ties with their community and hide identity to avoid discrimination.
"Decades of oppression have led to circumstances where these people don't even know how to stand up for their rights, because there is no representation," he adds.
Dholka's words reflect in Sabir's thoughts, as the young man says he sometimes feels "like the Africans in South Africa or the Jews in Nazi Germany". However, despite the twin challenges of poverty and his birth into the bottom of the social rung, Sabir manages to remain hopeful, and talks of changing the country into a better home someday.
Haris Gazdar, Director and Senior Researcher, Collective for Social Science Research in his paper "Class, Caste or Race: Veils over Social Oppression in Pakistan" argues that caste based marginalization is common in Pakistan.
"The trouble is that the biradaris and quoms are not all equal, and public silencing of the issue is very much about perpetuating existing hierarchies. The inequality is so severe and deeply embedded in parts of the country that it is hardly even noticed."
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable’s struggle – The Express Tribune
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable's struggle
LAHORE: Sabir Arif, a student of finance and cost management in one of Lahore's private institutions lives in a hut made of wood, cloth and plastic sheets. His only source of income is the private tuitions he provides to others to keep his makeshift home intact.
The son of a daily wager, Sabir is not a typical victim of abject poverty in the city. Reminiscing about how he read Russian literature when he came across old story books while picking garbage in class seven, Sabir says his great challenge in life has been his caste – that he was born a Deendar Changar – Pakistan's version of the 'untouchables'.
Contrary to popular belief, caste in Pakistan has been a means of systematic discrimination. The lower castes here are Pakistan's downtrodden, including Massalis also known as Muslim Sheikhs, Choorahs who are majority Christian and Chamars or Changars who are also called Deendars if they practice Islam. In Punjab and Sindh these include the scheduled Hindu castes that serve as farm workers and bonded laborers.
Sabir admits that he faces greater discrimination than most of his "biradari" because he refused to stick to what is the generally acceptable position and career path of his caste. Living in the slums, and being considered lowest of the low in a society fixated on high and low birth, Sabir was always at the periphery, but his decision to pursue education did not sit well with the local community.
Muhammad Arif, his father who gets labor jobs with the help of his donkey cart, says he struggled with the decision of sending his children to school, "People of our biradari said that education was not for our people, that I should make Sabir help me with daily work, but I decided against it and have not sent my younger children to work as live-in domestic helpers like others in our community or forced them into working only."
Discouraged, discriminated against and lacking any political identity, the city is now Sabir's home, as it is easier for people of lower castes to access schooling and get odd jobs in urban hubs as compared to rural settings, where discrimination is far higher.
Abdul Rasheed Dholka, a political activist of Mazdoor Kissan Party in Sargodha has worked with lower caste farm workers, and says that in rare cases when young men from these communities are hired as peons or clerks, they try to cut off ties with their community and hide identity to avoid discrimination.
"Decades of oppression have led to circumstances where these people don't even know how to stand up for their rights, because there is no representation," he adds.
Dholka's words reflect in Sabir's thoughts, as the young man says he sometimes feels "like the Africans in South Africa or the Jews in Nazi Germany". However, despite the twin challenges of poverty and his birth into the bottom of the social rung, Sabir manages to remain hopeful, and talks of changing the country into a better home someday.
Haris Gazdar, Director and Senior Researcher, Collective for Social Science Research in his paper "Class, Caste or Race: Veils over Social Oppression in Pakistan" argues that caste based marginalization is common in Pakistan.
"The trouble is that the biradaris and quoms are not all equal, and public silencing of the issue is very much about perpetuating existing hierarchies. The inequality is so severe and deeply embedded in parts of the country that it is hardly even noticed."
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable’s struggle – The Express Tribune
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@Farhan
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable's struggle
LAHORE: Sabir Arif, a student of finance and cost management in one of Lahore's private institutions lives in a hut made of wood, cloth and plastic sheets. His only source of income is the private tuitions he provides to others to keep his makeshift home intact.
The son of a daily wager, Sabir is not a typical victim of abject poverty in the city. Reminiscing about how he read Russian literature when he came across old story books while picking garbage in class seven, Sabir says his great challenge in life has been his caste – that he was born a Deendar Changar – Pakistan's version of the 'untouchables'.
Contrary to popular belief, caste in Pakistan has been a means of systematic discrimination. The lower castes here are Pakistan's downtrodden, including Massalis also known as Muslim Sheikhs, Choorahs who are majority Christian and Chamars or Changars who are also called Deendars if they practice Islam. In Punjab and Sindh these include the scheduled Hindu castes that serve as farm workers and bonded laborers.
Sabir admits that he faces greater discrimination than most of his "biradari" because he refused to stick to what is the generally acceptable position and career path of his caste. Living in the slums, and being considered lowest of the low in a society fixated on high and low birth, Sabir was always at the periphery, but his decision to pursue education did not sit well with the local community.
Muhammad Arif, his father who gets labor jobs with the help of his donkey cart, says he struggled with the decision of sending his children to school, "People of our biradari said that education was not for our people, that I should make Sabir help me with daily work, but I decided against it and have not sent my younger children to work as live-in domestic helpers like others in our community or forced them into working only."
Discouraged, discriminated against and lacking any political identity, the city is now Sabir's home, as it is easier for people of lower castes to access schooling and get odd jobs in urban hubs as compared to rural settings, where discrimination is far higher.
Abdul Rasheed Dholka, a political activist of Mazdoor Kissan Party in Sargodha has worked with lower caste farm workers, and says that in rare cases when young men from these communities are hired as peons or clerks, they try to cut off ties with their community and hide identity to avoid discrimination.
"Decades of oppression have led to circumstances where these people don't even know how to stand up for their rights, because there is no representation," he adds.
Dholka's words reflect in Sabir's thoughts, as the young man says he sometimes feels "like the Africans in South Africa or the Jews in Nazi Germany". However, despite the twin challenges of poverty and his birth into the bottom of the social rung, Sabir manages to remain hopeful, and talks of changing the country into a better home someday.
Haris Gazdar, Director and Senior Researcher, Collective for Social Science Research in his paper "Class, Caste or Race: Veils over Social Oppression in Pakistan" argues that caste based marginalization is common in Pakistan.
"The trouble is that the biradaris and quoms are not all equal, and public silencing of the issue is very much about perpetuating existing hierarchies. The inequality is so severe and deeply embedded in parts of the country that it is hardly even noticed."
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable’s struggle – The Express Tribune
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable's struggle
LAHORE: Sabir Arif, a student of finance and cost management in one of Lahore's private institutions lives in a hut made of wood, cloth and plastic sheets. His only source of income is the private tuitions he provides to others to keep his makeshift home intact.
The son of a daily wager, Sabir is not a typical victim of abject poverty in the city. Reminiscing about how he read Russian literature when he came across old story books while picking garbage in class seven, Sabir says his great challenge in life has been his caste – that he was born a Deendar Changar – Pakistan's version of the 'untouchables'.
Contrary to popular belief, caste in Pakistan has been a means of systematic discrimination. The lower castes here are Pakistan's downtrodden, including Massalis also known as Muslim Sheikhs, Choorahs who are majority Christian and Chamars or Changars who are also called Deendars if they practice Islam. In Punjab and Sindh these include the scheduled Hindu castes that serve as farm workers and bonded laborers.
Sabir admits that he faces greater discrimination than most of his "biradari" because he refused to stick to what is the generally acceptable position and career path of his caste. Living in the slums, and being considered lowest of the low in a society fixated on high and low birth, Sabir was always at the periphery, but his decision to pursue education did not sit well with the local community.
Muhammad Arif, his father who gets labor jobs with the help of his donkey cart, says he struggled with the decision of sending his children to school, "People of our biradari said that education was not for our people, that I should make Sabir help me with daily work, but I decided against it and have not sent my younger children to work as live-in domestic helpers like others in our community or forced them into working only."
Discouraged, discriminated against and lacking any political identity, the city is now Sabir's home, as it is easier for people of lower castes to access schooling and get odd jobs in urban hubs as compared to rural settings, where discrimination is far higher.
Abdul Rasheed Dholka, a political activist of Mazdoor Kissan Party in Sargodha has worked with lower caste farm workers, and says that in rare cases when young men from these communities are hired as peons or clerks, they try to cut off ties with their community and hide identity to avoid discrimination.
"Decades of oppression have led to circumstances where these people don't even know how to stand up for their rights, because there is no representation," he adds.
Dholka's words reflect in Sabir's thoughts, as the young man says he sometimes feels "like the Africans in South Africa or the Jews in Nazi Germany". However, despite the twin challenges of poverty and his birth into the bottom of the social rung, Sabir manages to remain hopeful, and talks of changing the country into a better home someday.
Haris Gazdar, Director and Senior Researcher, Collective for Social Science Research in his paper "Class, Caste or Race: Veils over Social Oppression in Pakistan" argues that caste based marginalization is common in Pakistan.
"The trouble is that the biradaris and quoms are not all equal, and public silencing of the issue is very much about perpetuating existing hierarchies. The inequality is so severe and deeply embedded in parts of the country that it is hardly even noticed."
Pakistan's caste system: The untouchable’s struggle – The Express Tribune
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Blackwater
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@ farhaan
Power crisis: Ancient Punjab to observe two weekly holidays
LAHORE: As power crisis worsens in the Punjab, the provincial caretaker cabinet Tuesday announced to observe two weekly holidays and asked the federal government to convene a meeting of Council of Common Interest (CCI) over the issue.
A meeting of caretaker Punjab cabinet held under the chief minister Najam Sethi here at CM house, made some important decisions to tackle the issue of power shortage and the resulting loadshedding.
Following the meeting, it was announced that the Punjab province will observe two weekly offs as a step towards dealing with the worsening power crisis in the province.
During the meeting, CM Sethi asked the federal government to take effective measures to address the issue of power shortage and summon a meeting of CCI over the issue.
He further said that he would personally meet the caretaker prime minister and have the federal machinery mobilized for bringing a reduction in the duration of loadshedding.
Sethi told the meeting to adopt all the measures to conserve electricity.
It may be mentioned here that the former chief minister Punjab, Shahbaz Sharif had, during his office term, opposed the idea of observing two weekly offs.
Power crisis: Punjab to observe two weekly holidays | Pakistan - geo.tv
People around the world gets holidays due to festivals like, diwali , dusshera, X-mas. people of Ancient land of pakistan gets holidays due to load shedding
Power crisis: Ancient Punjab to observe two weekly holidays
LAHORE: As power crisis worsens in the Punjab, the provincial caretaker cabinet Tuesday announced to observe two weekly holidays and asked the federal government to convene a meeting of Council of Common Interest (CCI) over the issue.
A meeting of caretaker Punjab cabinet held under the chief minister Najam Sethi here at CM house, made some important decisions to tackle the issue of power shortage and the resulting loadshedding.
Following the meeting, it was announced that the Punjab province will observe two weekly offs as a step towards dealing with the worsening power crisis in the province.
During the meeting, CM Sethi asked the federal government to take effective measures to address the issue of power shortage and summon a meeting of CCI over the issue.
He further said that he would personally meet the caretaker prime minister and have the federal machinery mobilized for bringing a reduction in the duration of loadshedding.
Sethi told the meeting to adopt all the measures to conserve electricity.
It may be mentioned here that the former chief minister Punjab, Shahbaz Sharif had, during his office term, opposed the idea of observing two weekly offs.
Power crisis: Punjab to observe two weekly holidays | Pakistan - geo.tv
People around the world gets holidays due to festivals like, diwali , dusshera, X-mas. people of Ancient land of pakistan gets holidays due to load shedding
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Blackwater
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@ farhaan
Power crisis: Ancient Punjab to observe two weekly holidays
LAHORE: As power crisis worsens in the Punjab, the provincial caretaker cabinet Tuesday announced to observe two weekly holidays and asked the federal government to convene a meeting of Council of Common Interest (CCI) over the issue.
A meeting of caretaker Punjab cabinet held under the chief minister Najam Sethi here at CM house, made some important decisions to tackle the issue of power shortage and the resulting loadshedding.
Following the meeting, it was announced that the Punjab province will observe two weekly offs as a step towards dealing with the worsening power crisis in the province.
During the meeting, CM Sethi asked the federal government to take effective measures to address the issue of power shortage and summon a meeting of CCI over the issue.
He further said that he would personally meet the caretaker prime minister and have the federal machinery mobilized for bringing a reduction in the duration of loadshedding.
Sethi told the meeting to adopt all the measures to conserve electricity.
It may be mentioned here that the former chief minister Punjab, Shahbaz Sharif had, during his office term, opposed the idea of observing two weekly offs.
Power crisis: Punjab to observe two weekly holidays | Pakistan - geo.tv
ohh my God this is despite
High GDP of pakistan
More toilets
More growth in 65 yrs
More arab blood
More fair color
Roots from Indus valley.
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lol
Indian and talking about poverty in india
as per indian sources 70% indians are living under extreme poverty compared to pakistan only 23% as of 2007
the rest of 30% only has 4% as middle class
As per wiki india will remain a poor state by poor i mean a middle income state even by 2050 if it really survived to exist till than
http://articles.economictimes.india...tes-multi-layered-approach-day-in-urban-areas
Pakistan better than India on UNDP gender inequality index – The Express Tribune
please dont talk about poverty untill and unless you have a indian nationality because it is also acknowledged around the world that only 8 indian states has more poor than whole africa poor populations combined
8 Indian states have more poor than 26 poorest African nations - Times Of India
since with this i will stop about the poverty in india since this is a subject in which majority of pakistani internet warriors has PHD qualification
Pakistan and india partition was bound to happen be it by jinnah or the present generation pakistan.since Both the nation never were 1 country..
Anyway caste system in Islam doesnt exist.i dont know how can you claim jinnah was upper or lower or Sir syed or sir great was upper or lower caste.when nothing as such exist in ISLAM
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The great mass of Indian Muslims, however, descend not from these conquerors, but from sections of the indigenous population who converted under their influence during the centuries of their rule. So those castes said to trace their lineages to the invaders, and therefore to have had Islam in their families for a longer time (this traditional ulamic distinction conveniently coinciding with reputed descent from the old foreign-derived ruling classes) are called ashraf (literally, "noble"). The other, inferior castes--the ajlaf ("lowly")--are supposed to descend from the native converts. Seventy-five per cent of Muslims are born into ajlaf castes.
The line between ashraf and ajlaf castes corresponds to that between the upper three, "twice-born" varnas in the Hindu system (brahmins, kshatriyas, and vaishyas) and the sudras and untouchables beneath them. Nothing analogous to the phenomenon of "uppercaste sudras"--wealthy, landowning sudra castes like the kammas and reddis of Andhra who are treated as high-ranking despite their low varna--seems to exist among Muslims, probably because a prospering ajlaf caste can in time more easily move up to ashraf status.
The ashraf castes are broken down into four categories for purposes of ranking: Sayyads, Sheiks, Mughals, and Pathans. Like the four varnas of the Hindu system, these are not castes (in the sense of jatis) but ways of classifying castes according to a theoretical hierarchy. Into each category thousands of individual local endogamous castes are assigned a place.
The highest castes are those said to descend directly from Mohammed through his daughter Fatima and Ali, the fourth caliph of Islam, called the Sayyads (literally, "princes"). Next come the Sheiks ("chiefs")--castes outside the Sayyad category who nonetheless trace their origin to the Arabs, the people among whom Islam first spread. Castes within the next two categories are those reputed to derive from further outside the historical center of the Muslim world. Since their ancestors would presumably have had less time to practice Islam, these castes, while still ashraf, have relatively lower status. The Mughal castes are supposed to have descended from the invaders who founded the Mughal dynasty (who were actually a mixture of Central Asian peoples, but who fancifully claimed descent from Genghis Khan and the Mongols), while the Pathan castes trace their origin to the Pathan (now called Pashtun) tribes of Afghanistan.
Despite these claims, the four ashraf categories are not ethnic groups. The Sayyad and Sheik castes, for example, do not speak Arabic or follow Arab customs. Whether any of them have actual genealogical links to the Near East is open to question. Caste rankings among Muslims are not based on a caste's historical origins--which can rarely, if ever, be known--but on the social consensus about those origins, and thus ultimately on relations of political and economic power.
That the ashrafs claim extra-Indian descent.
The line between ashraf and ajlaf castes corresponds to that between the upper three, "twice-born" varnas in the Hindu system (brahmins, kshatriyas, and vaishyas) and the sudras and untouchables beneath them. Nothing analogous to the phenomenon of "uppercaste sudras"--wealthy, landowning sudra castes like the kammas and reddis of Andhra who are treated as high-ranking despite their low varna--seems to exist among Muslims, probably because a prospering ajlaf caste can in time more easily move up to ashraf status.
The ashraf castes are broken down into four categories for purposes of ranking: Sayyads, Sheiks, Mughals, and Pathans. Like the four varnas of the Hindu system, these are not castes (in the sense of jatis) but ways of classifying castes according to a theoretical hierarchy. Into each category thousands of individual local endogamous castes are assigned a place.
The highest castes are those said to descend directly from Mohammed through his daughter Fatima and Ali, the fourth caliph of Islam, called the Sayyads (literally, "princes"). Next come the Sheiks ("chiefs")--castes outside the Sayyad category who nonetheless trace their origin to the Arabs, the people among whom Islam first spread. Castes within the next two categories are those reputed to derive from further outside the historical center of the Muslim world. Since their ancestors would presumably have had less time to practice Islam, these castes, while still ashraf, have relatively lower status. The Mughal castes are supposed to have descended from the invaders who founded the Mughal dynasty (who were actually a mixture of Central Asian peoples, but who fancifully claimed descent from Genghis Khan and the Mongols), while the Pathan castes trace their origin to the Pathan (now called Pashtun) tribes of Afghanistan.
Despite these claims, the four ashraf categories are not ethnic groups. The Sayyad and Sheik castes, for example, do not speak Arabic or follow Arab customs. Whether any of them have actual genealogical links to the Near East is open to question. Caste rankings among Muslims are not based on a caste's historical origins--which can rarely, if ever, be known--but on the social consensus about those origins, and thus ultimately on relations of political and economic power.
That the ashrafs claim extra-Indian descent.
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How does it matter if it is officially proclaimed.
The issue is that caste exists in Pakistan.
At least, if officially admitted, then the machinery could do something about it.
Totally fraudulent if you ask me.
What is embarrassing and uncomfortable - brush it under the carpet and pretend it never exists!
Please discuss whatever you want, but please do not try to pull wool!
I am well aware that people who claim to be ashrafs look down upon the others!
Well, would you break bread with what you call in Pakistan as choorahs?
At least in India, because it is recognised, you dare not call them so or not break bread. If you do the Law will catch up and you will be in jail!
Ask poor Ashish Nandy, who interestingly, is not a Hindu but an Anglican Christian!
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Bhadra
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Oh the government of India does recognize people into categories such as Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, Other Backward castes etc but that is in order to enforce positive discrimination.
Pakistanis wish to close their eyes from the ground realities in the name of Allaha (PBUH)
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Blackwater
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Dalits and shudras has more facilities in India. they got reservation in govt jobs and education.
stop being a octrich lovely farhan
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